Protestant versus Catholic

[GKC]

Thankyou for that information. I appreciate it very much. That’s not quite what I was hoping for, however I will read that as it will be interesting anyways.

What I was referring to is the following statement by a forum member above: Now, this is a statement made by a Catholic member, I think, and what I was wondering is if this is what is actually reflected in Catholic official writings/teachings? If so, where?

If this quote does accurately reflect official Catholic thinking on the matter at hand; then I would have some other questions to ask.

The Anglicans involved in the subject matter of that forum did, as part of their expression of desiring unity with Rome, use the Catechism as a marker of their desire, saying they accepted all of it. I don’t think there is a written RCC position that accepting the Catechism constitutes unity with Rome, in and of itself, but certainly, AFAIK, unity would involve accepting all RC dogma and doctrine, as expressed in the Catechism. IOW, you can’t be in union with Rome without accepting what Rome teaches, and that is expressed in the Catechism. But then, I’m an Anglican, and speak as an outsider.

GKC

 

[MariaG]

I never saw those positions as incompatible and now question even more the reasons for Catholic closed communion… toward Lutherans especially.

Closed communion in the Catholic church has never been based solely on whether or not ones belief is compatible with the Catholic teaching of the Real Presence of Christ.

And I know your head already knows that.

Respectfully,
Maria

 

[JonNC]

I never saw those positions as incompatible and now question even more the reasons for Catholic closed communion… toward Lutherans especially.

Well, perhaps because they take a similar view as the LCMS, that being communion is more than just agreement on the nature of the Eucharist, but also a full communion on doctrine.

That said, both the Catholic Church and the LCMS seem to be willing to make some exceptions: for the Catholic Church it is Orthodox Christians (even though they respectfully decline), and the LCMS - though not techincally - for other Lutherans (an exception that seems to happen more the further away one is from St. Louis ).

Jon

 

[Lutheranteach]

Well, perhaps because they take a similar view as the LCMS, that being communion is more than just agreement on the nature of the Eucharist, but also a full communion on doctrine.

That said, both the Catholic Church and the LCMS seem to be willing to make some exceptions: for the Catholic Church it is Orthodox Christians (even though they respectfully decline), and the LCMS - though not techincally - for other Lutherans (an exception that seems to happen more the further away one is from St. Louis ).

Jon

Ah, but therein is a problem as well as any two Catholics, Lutherans, etc. may completely disagree on any number of doctrines yet be welcome to take communion.

 

[JonNC]

Ah, but therein is a problem as well as any two Catholics, Lutherans, etc. may completely disagree on any number of doctrines yet be welcome to take communion.

Just between Lutherans, for us to be in full communion, we both have to hold to the UAC and SC, and the doctrines that make us Lutheran. If it is doctrine, we must agree or one of us is not Lutheran. Not talking about adiaphora here, where we are permitted to hold varying views - Mary’s perpetual virginity, for example.
I suspect it is the same for Catholics and the CCC.

Jon

 

[chris_molter]

Do you have any official writings on this that I could read?

Well, here’s the actual text of Anglicanorum Coetibus:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apc_20091104_anglicanorum-coetibus_en.html

Here’s some background info:

adoremus.org/Notes_AnglicanorumCoetibus.html

and some good blog links:

wdtprs.com/blog/2009/11/apostolic-constitution-anglicanorum-coetibus/

theanglocatholic.com

Of course, not everyone is happy or impressed…

anglicancontinuum.blogspot.com/p/regarding-romes-new-constitution-on.html

thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/004054.html

 

[JonNC]

=Marc Anthony;6785475]Well, it’s not quite as cut and dried as all that. You need to accept the Primacy and Authority of Peter’s Succesor and belief in all Catholic dogmas.

Hi Marc,
It may not even be this cut and dried. Question: why are Orthodox Christians permitted to receive the Blessed Sacrament at a Catholic Church, when they do not accept the Primacy of the Pope, at least in the way Rome defines it?

However, IMHO, salvation through faith alone vs. salvation through faith and works can be reconciled nicely.

At least the way Lutherans define Faith Alone, anyway.

Jon

 

[VetA]

Just between Lutherans, for us to be in full communion, we both have to hold to the UAC and SC, and the doctrines that make us Lutheran. If it is doctrine, we must agree or one of us is not Lutheran. Not talking about adiaphora here, where we are permitted to hold varying views - Mary’s perpetual virginity, for example.
I suspect it is the same for Catholics and the CCC.

Jon

the perpetual virginity of Mary is not optional to believe…

 

[JonNC]

the perpetual virginity of Mary is not optional to believe…

For you, as a Catholic, that is so. Lutherans view the marian beliefs as adiaphora.

EDIT: Ah, I think I see the reason for your post. I did not mean that Catholics could choose regarding semper virgo, I meant that it is the same as Lutherans in that Catholics are required to accept all their doctrine.

Hope I made that clear.
Jon

 

[BernadetteM]

Well, here’s the actual text of Anglicanorum Coetibus:
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_ben-xvi_apc_20091104_anglicanorum-coetibus_en.html

Here’s some background info:

adoremus.org/Notes_AnglicanorumCoetibus.html

and some good blog links:

wdtprs.com/blog/2009/11/apostolic-constitution-anglicanorum-coetibus/

theanglocatholic.com

Of course, not everyone is happy or impressed…

anglicancontinuum.blogspot.com/p/regarding-romes-new-constitution-on.html

thinkinganglicans.org.uk/archives/004054.html

Since it says your Catholic (Anglican) are you planning to attend a parish who is part of the Ordinariate when they are established. I believe there is an Anglican Catholic Cathedral in Orlando that appears to joining the Ordinariate. Just curious. If Orlando does, in fact, be so lucky to have an Anglican Use parish in the future I envy you.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Yahwehisgod]

Protestant versus Catholic. Why does it have to be like this? What does the Church of Rome want to see happen for “unity?”

I believe what the non-catholics want is for the catholics to stop calling Mary as the mother of God thereby granting her deity-hood, stop praying towards idols/statues, stop calling the priests as Father, Keep the Sabbath Saturday like the ancient Jews, stop the practices of ‘god-father’ or ‘god-mother’ etc, not repeat the inquisition, not accomodate the pedophilia of some of the priests, not covet nor claim in vain the church leadership which does not even exist on earth,

In short, LEARN ****to OBEY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.

.

 

[JonNC]

First, Welcome to CAF.

=Yahwehisgod;6791384]I believe what the non-catholics want is for the catholics to stop calling Mary as the mother of God thereby granting her deity-hood

This non-Catholic Christian does not believe that the ancient teaching regarding the Blessed Virgin as Holy Theotokos grants her in any way deity status.

stop praying towards idols/statues,

They don’t.

stop calling the priests as Father,

Nothing wrong with it.

Keep the Sabbath Saturday like the ancient Jews

It has been the practice since the ancient Church to worship on the day of the resurrection. Do you practice all of the Levitical laws?

stop the practices of ‘god-father’ or ‘god-mother’ etc

I’m a Godfather.

not repeat the inquisition

Ok.

not accomodate the pedophilia of some of the priests

This is uncalled for, as this sin happens in all churches, and in schools, etc. To single out the CC implies a bias.

In short, LEARN ****to OBEY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.

Yes, we should all do that.

EDIT: May I suggest that your participation here will be more fruitful if you listen to what others say they believe, instead of telling them what they believe. Just saying.
Jon

 

[RevJoeBonner]

I believe what the non-catholics want is for the catholics to stop calling Mary as the mother of God thereby granting her deity-hood, stop praying towards idols/statues, stop calling the priests as Father, Keep the Sabbath Saturday like the ancient Jews, stop the practices of ‘god-father’ or ‘god-mother’ etc, not repeat the inquisition, not accomodate the pedophilia of some of the priests, not covet nor claim in vain the church leadership which does not even exist on earth,

In short, LEARN ****to OBEY THE 10 COMMANDMENTS.

.

Funny, I have not known a Catholic yet who worships Mary as a deity. Even I as a Baptist know the difference between idol worship and veneration.
I take it from your posts that you must be an Adventist as you mention “Keep the Sabbath Saturday like the ancient Jews” Funny the first day of the week became known as the “Lord’s day” when Christians worshiped, you can find this in Revelation. Maybe you should start reading your Bible instead of making inflammatory remarks as what you have done. Pedophiles are in Protestant clergy and in schools as well, posting such does not bring the peace of Christ but rather confusion and hatred. And I assume you do know who the father of confusion is.

 

[Padrej]

Funny, I have not known a Catholic yet who worships Mary as a deity. Even I as a Baptist know the difference between idol worship and veneration.
I take it from your posts that you must be an Adventist as you mention “Keep the Sabbath Saturday like the ancient Jews” Funny the first day of the week became known as the “Lord’s day” when Christians worshiped, you can find this in Revelation. Maybe you should start reading your Bible instead of making inflammatory remarks as what you have done. Pedophiles are in Protestant clergy and in schools as well, posting such does not bring the peace of Christ but rather confusion and hatred. And I assume you do know who the father of confusion is.

:bowdown::clapping::clapping::tiphat:
I too have never known a catholic to do any of the things mentioned in the post by Yahwehisgod.

 

[Yahwehisgod]

First, Welcome to CAF.

This non-Catholic Christian does not believe that the ancient teaching regarding the Blessed Virgin as Holy Theotokos grants her in any way deity status.

They don’t.

Nothing wrong with it.

It has been the practice since the ancient Church to worship on the day of the resurrection. Do you practice all of the Levitical laws?

I’m a Godfather.

Ok.

This is uncalled for, as this sin happens in all churches, and in schools, etc. To single out the CC implies a bias.

Yes, we should all do that.

EDIT: May I suggest that your participation here will be more fruitful if you listen to what others say they believe, instead of telling them what they believe. Just saying.
Jon

If I say now that I am your Father, would you give me the honor and serve me your duties as a son or would you scorn at me and scold me to my face? If you will take the latter like what you will, does it not show that you find me unworthy? If you take the former does it not show that I am greater than you are?

Can a man be the father of another yet not be greater than he is? You hypocrites, if you were aware of what shame you have brought to God, you wouldn’t be going round telling everyone how you made me lower than that of an earthly woman.

PS. If you were blind, you wouldn’t be guilty. But now that you say you see, your guilt remains.

 

[benidict]

If you were blind, you wouldn’t be guilty. But now that you say you see, your guilt remains.

i was just thinking of you the other day… we must have a connection. havent ceased praying for you…welcome back. shhh! itll be our little secret. i know who you are…no need to respond. youll give yourself away! Peace

 

[Yahwehisgod]

i was just thinking of you the other day… we must have a connection. havent ceased praying for you…welcome back. shhh! itll be our little secret. i know who you are…no need to respond. youll give yourself away! Peace

You shall wallow in your sins till the day of your eternal condemnation. And no pity shall be given you.

 

[benidict]

You shall wallow in your sins till the day of your eternal condemnation. And no pity shall be given you.

i told you not to respond!:tsktsk: your just gonna get yourself in trouble once again. then i have to wait to converse with you again. Jesus loves you. and wants you come to him. i will not give up, until i get a message that you have received the love of Christ into your life. and that you have nothing but love for his Church. as St. Augustines mother prayed for him. i will pray for you. and return your venom with Charity. you are my pet project, and i will persist in prayer for your soul. i hope one day to see you at the feet of Jesus. i for one, am my brothers keeper. and you my friend, are going to be my brother. you just dont realize it yet. i have faith. Peace

 

[rinnie]

Protestant versus Catholic. Why does it have to be like this? What does the Church of Rome want to see happen for “unity?”

To go back to the Church the way Jesus started it. For us to follow the teaching’s of the Apostles the way Jesus taught it, not the way we want it to be.

Authority is the big issue. Who did Jesus leave authority to? The CC. To follow the truth and to all live together and repect eachother but to also respect the leaders of the Church to lead us to the fullness of the truth. The way God set it up.

The Church of Rome is never going to give in to what WE want. The Church cannot do that. It is held by the Promise of the Holy Spirit to teach and hold all truth. It cannot change.

 

[rinnie]

Funny, I have not known a Catholic yet who worships Mary as a deity. Even I as a Baptist know the difference between idol worship and veneration.
I take it from your posts that you must be an Adventist as you mention “Keep the Sabbath Saturday like the ancient Jews” Funny the first day of the week became known as the “Lord’s day” when Christians worshiped, you can find this in Revelation. Maybe you should start reading your Bible instead of making inflammatory remarks as what you have done. Pedophiles are in Protestant clergy and in schools as well, posting such does not bring the peace of Christ but rather confusion and hatred. And I assume you do know who the father of confusion is.

Now this is what I am talking about!!!:extrahappy: This is how we can become brothers and sisters in Christ once again. Before we can ever be re-united again, we must at least admit the truth of ones faith rather we understand it or not. Once the truth is revealed the other faith has a chance of explaining it to other faiths. But as long as lies are told we can never move forward.

Good Job RevJoe. Refreshing