Protestant with questions!!!

[LaurAsh988]

Hello there,

I am a confirmed member of the Methodist church, although I rarely attend church. I am here because my best friend is Catholic and my boyfriend is as well, which brings some interesting discussions. Unfortunately as of right now I do not have a good opinion of the church. I know they do good and I know they are very tradition based but a lot of what I hear turns me off.

From both of them I get the term the “true” or “right” church and no other church is correct in their teachings. Frankly this upsets me and makes me feel as if my church and every other church has something wrong with them. I have never felt one church is better or more true than another and that the main thing that should be focused on is God and the love and celebration of Jesus Christ.

I guess I am wondering why this has been taught and why is the word of the church held to the same standard as what is written in the Bible? It has always been my personal belief that what is in the Bible is what a person is to follow, not what man says.

I’m sure I have many misconceptions about the church. While I understand their belief system for some things, such as prohibiting birth control, I do not understand not allowing priests to marry and making them take a vow of celibacy. I have heard the myriad reasons for it and it still just makes me feel like it’s about money and land. I feel a lot of the traditions the church has are unnecessary for entrance into Heaven and are made up rules.

Sorry for rambling on, I would like everyone to know that I am not really “anti” Catholic but I do have major issues with the church. I really just want to understand the teachings better and the reasoning behind things to better connect spiritually to my boyfriend. His faith is important to him so it is important to me to connect better on that level to him.

 

[Church_Militant]

Hi!

Let me ask you this then.

Can you show me any passage of scripture that tells us that the Bible is the only and ultimate authority for all that Christians believe and practice?

I’ll offer you one passage that counters that right off the bat though.

[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 3:14-15[/BIBLEDRB]

If there is no passage in the Word of God that specifically tells us what you say you believe (if I understand you correctly so far), then that would make that teaching itself unscriptural.

How then can people call that a Christian doctrine when it fails the test of its own premise?

 

[LaurAsh988]

That is a good question. I suppose there isn’t any scripture that says it is the only authority. Good response. However, why does the Catholic church say that its teachings are the authority along with the Bible? I know most churches believe what they believe is right but I guess I’m of the mind that there is no one “right” way to believe. We are all God’s children. Sometimes I feel like a floater among Christianity but I would say I believe in most of my church’s teachings.

ETA: I am pretty serious with my boyfriend and we have discussed what if we had marriage, children, etc and how they would be raised. It’s a ways in the future but if we were to expose our children to both churches and let them decide for themselves when they are of age (13 or 14), even if they were baptised in one church because we both believe in infant baptism, would that be a major faux pas? I am a worrier so it’s kind of senseless to be planning all this right now but I feel it is important to have everything out on the table beforehand.

 

[Church_Militant]

That is a good question. I suppose there isn’t any scripture that says it is the only authority. Good response.

Thanks.:tiphat: You’re right. Read your Bible from cover to cover and you won’t find such a scripture though many n-Cs have interpreted some passages to support it when in fact, they don’t.

However, why does the Catholic church say that its teachings are the authority along with the Bible?

I would refer you back to the passage above where St. Paul quite specifically tells St. Timothy what the pillar and ground of the truth is. If, as Paul teaches, the church is that pillar & ground, then that points up that the New Testament came to us from the hand of the church (keep in mind that not all the NT authors were apostles), by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Who then is the proper authoritative interpreter of scripture? Have a look at this article.
Peter the Rock

I know most churches believe what they believe is right but I guess I’m of the mind that there is no one “right” way to believe.

No facetiousness intended, but ask yourself just how that is working out for you on every level of your Christian life? I believe in objective truth. It’s one of the main reasons that I am a Catholic. (My Testimony)

We are all God’s children. Sometimes I feel like a floater among Christianity but I would say I believe in most of my church’s teachings.

On what authority then? Most people never look into these matters and consider where it will lead them. I did and it led me back to the Catholic faith.

Here’s some articles that you might find of interest.

• Proving Inspiration
• Scripture and Tradition
• What’s Your Authority?

 

[Victorious]

I know most churches believe what they believe is right but I guess I’m of the mind that there is no one “right” way to believe. We are all God’s children. Sometimes I feel like a floater among Christianity but I would say I believe in most of my church’s teachings.

The trouble with that is, Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. And you find that Scriptures says repeatedly that God does not change. If there is no one “right” way to believe, then Jesus must be a liar right out of the gate. To say that all those who call themselves Christians are equally right is to say that Jesus established a Church that at once believes and rejects the dogma of the Holy Trinity; that at once believes and rejects the necessity of baptism; that at once believes in and rejects the ministerial priesthood, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist; in short, that holds all sorts of mutually exclusive doctrines.

No, that Church that believes and teaches the *whole *truth *must *be the True Church; any organization that believes and teaches only part of the truth – even if it is 999,999 parts truth to one part error – has something other than the truth, and is therefore not the True Church. Why? Because Jesus Christ is ALL truth, with no admixture of error, however minute; and His Bride, whom He has charged with the duty of preserving and passing on His teachings, must resemble Him.

ETA: I am pretty serious with my boyfriend and we have discussed what if we had marriage, children, etc and how they would be raised. It’s a ways in the future but if we were to expose our children to both churches and let them decide for themselves when they are of age (13 or 14), even if they were baptised in one church because we both believe in infant baptism, would that be a major faux pas? I am a worrier so it’s kind of senseless to be planning all this right now but I feel it is important to have everything out on the table beforehand.

A Catholic has a *duty *to raise his children up in the Catholic faith. A Catholic who fails in this duty, and who is indifferent as to what religion his children observe, bears a grave responsibility before God.

 

[Lutheranteach]

The OP touched on the one thing that I will NEVER accept. I am happy to say the Catholic Church is every bit my own denomination’s equal. In fact I’m known to argue with those who say it is anything less than Lutheranism’s equal, but I will never say Catholicism is better, truer, more right, whatever term one would like to use.

 

[Patrick_Cox]

Hi LaurAsh

Church Militant and Victorious have both given you very wise answers. Yes, all people are God’s children. But, truth IS important. The Bible sadly can and is interpreted in so many different ways by many individuals, yet by definition there can be only ONE full truth, only ONE correct intepretation of the Word of God, not many different versions of this truth. It is important to always recognise this aspect in your thinking.

Faith / Christianity is not a popularity contest. Our primary goal should be to seek, find and follow the absolute fullness of truth of the Word of God. (I am the Way, the Truth and the Life). Many Protestant faiths will tell you that that truth lies in the Bible. Yet the many many different versions of Christianity and the many different interpretations of the Bible we find today, reflect the pitfalls of relying solely on the Bible as the only source of faith and truth. There must be something more - and thank God there is indeed more… There is a Church which Jesus himself started! The Church which the Bible itself says is the pillar and strength of the truth!

I would like to add that it is to your great credit that you say that admit that you may “have many misconceptions about the Church”. There really are a lot of misconceptions out there, and I think your comment linking priestly celibacy to “money and land” really does reflect this.
So I would like to ask you this favour. Let’s say I wanted to find out about the teachings of Methodists, would you consider it sensible for me to ask a Jew, a Catholic or an informed Methodist about their teachings? I think the answer is self-evident would you agree? If I want to know the truth about the Methodist teachings, I should go to an informed Methodist. I’d like to ask you the same. In finding out more about Catholicism, I’d like to ask you to ensure that you at all times go to an informed Catholic source or person. It is in going to a non-Catholic source, or even an ill-informed source, that misconceptions may be instilled in your mind. In choosing this site, you have already shown that you are prepared to do this, to your great credit.

Keep asking questions - you will find many knowledgable people on this site prepared to help you. I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide you towards truth and really wish you well as you learn more!

Finally: just a short answer regarding priestly celibacy (and I confess I am quoting this from a source which I have lost - eeeek! sorry! ):

*The Church requires celibacy from her priests as a matter of discipline, and not as a matter of doctrine. No one is forced into priesthood, and those who wish to become priests are asked to renounce sex for the sake of the Kingdom of God. It is consistent with Jesus’ praise of those who renounce sex for the Kingdom. Mt. 19:12. It is also consistent with Paul’s recommendation of celibacy for those who devote themselves entirely to ministry.

See1 Cor. 7:32-35:
[32] I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord;
[33] but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife,
[34] and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband.
[35] I say this for your own benefit, not to lay any restraint upon you, but to promote good order and to secure your undivided devotion to the Lord. (1 Cor. 7:32-35)

Since St. Paul does not command celibacy, the practice is imposed as a discipline, and there are allowances and exceptions. Some Eastern Catholic rites allow for married clergy; and even in the west exceptions have been made to allow some married Anglican priests who become Catholic to remain married even if they become Catholic priests.*
God bless!
Patrick

 

[Ender]

However, why does the Catholic church say that its teachings are the authority along with the Bible?

The Church existed prior to the Bible; it was in fact the Church which created the Bible by deciding which books should be included and always understood that not everything was written down.

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. (Jn 21:25)

Sacred Tradition was begun by those who actually knew Christ and the Disciples and incorporates the wisdom gained from 2000 years of prayer and study. The concern is not directed solely at interpreting the Bible but of discerning the will of God, which encompasses more than the Bible alone.

but I guess I’m of the mind that there is no one “right” way to believe. We are all God’s children. Sometimes I feel like a floater among Christianity but I would say I believe in most of my church’s teachings.

If there are some things your Church teaches that you don’t believe, why do you believe any of what it teaches? Although a great many Catholics also pick and choose what to accept and what to reject, that is a completely irrational way to behave. If the Church is not who she says she is then she is a complete fraud and everything she teaches should be dismissed. On the other hand, of course, if she is who she says she is then people should really understand that what they are rejecting is not some teaching the Church made up but is in fact God’s word which the Church passes on to us - which she had no role in creating.

Ender

 

[1ke]

That is a good question. I suppose there isn’t any scripture that says it is the only authority. Good response. However, why does the Catholic church say that its teachings are the authority along with the Bible? I know most churches believe what they believe is right but** I guess I’m of the mind that there is no one “right” way to believe. **We are all God’s children. Sometimes I feel like a floater among Christianity but I would say I believe in most of my church’s teachings.

So what you are saying is that Jesus taught that he was **the **Way and **the **Truth but that he didn’t leave a structure in place so that future generations could know this Truth with certainty and that even though he led the Apostles into “all Truth” they could not lead others this same way and safeguard those teachings for the future?

So everyone should just read the bible and figure out what it means for themselves-- even though this has created religions with completely opposing teachings about God, Christ, and salvation?

I mean, either God is a Trinity or He’s not. Either the Eucharist is really Jesus’s Body and Blood or it’s bread. Either contraception offends God or it doesn’t. Either the Sacraments give Grace or they don’t.

So this idea that there isn’t one right way to believe, in my opinion, is wrongheaded (and it isn’t biblical or a Christian teaching either).

Objectively, God is Truth. And he sent his Son to reveal it to us so we could know it and follow it. In order for future generations to know this Truth, he established his Church and set authority over it to teach without error.

ETA: I am pretty serious with my boyfriend and we have discussed what if we had marriage, children, etc and how they would be raised. It’s a ways in the future but if we were to expose our children to both churches and let them decide for themselves when they are of age (13 or 14), even if they were baptised in one church because we both believe in infant baptism, would that be a major faux pas? I am a worrier so it’s kind of senseless to be planning all this right now but I feel it is important to have everything out on the table beforehand.

A Catholic cannot make such a committment. In order to receive permission to marry a non-Catholic a Catholic must promise that they will continue to practice their own faith and raise their children in the Catholic faith.

 

[Bookcat]

Hello…please read the following…they will help give you some understanding of what we profess…

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a1.htm

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a2.htm

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s1c2a3.htm

 

[Bookcat]

it is important to note that the Magisterium (the teaching authority of the Church given by Christ) is as the Catechism of the Catholic Church puts it:

“not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant”

and

“teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”

Jesus formed a Church…and gathered 12 men around him and gave them authority…and in particular he gave one of them specific authority …and these men laid hands on others and made them Bishops etc…these are the successors who teach and guard and expounds what was given them by Christ.

It is this Church that decided from Tradition what actually makes up the Bible …(among many books etc that were around)…

it is not though that the Pope and Bishops of the Church are superior to the Word of God…they are not…

the must hand on though faithfully what has been given to them …

They must proclaim Jesus Christ and all that God has revealed…and do not have authority to change this…

 

[adv1sor]

Hello LaurAsh988,

You sound a bit like me. I converted to Catholicism a few years ago. I’d always been a Christian. I used to say, “as long as a church believes in Jesus, then they are Ok.”

Then a few things happened in my life that caused me to take a closer look at the Catholic Church. I was confirmed a few years ago and I thank God everyday.

You are already on the right track and it sounds like God has put people into your live to help guide you along.

Read Matthew 16:18-19 (christnotes.org/bible.php?q=Matthew+16%3A18-19+&ver=asv) and then take a look at this link newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm . That first guy on the list is the same one that Jesus was speaking to in Matthew 16.

Be careful of what you may read here on these forums. Some people here, like me, mean well but really aren’t that well informed. A few are true experts and some have other agendas entirely. This is a fun place to seek information, but the best would be to schedule an appointment with a priest. Just you and him, to talk over your feelings and get good answers to your questions.

Don’t let anything distract you from seeking the truth. Expect some things to try.

I’ll pray for you.

 

[zz912]

As a former Baptist who is coming into the Church next week, I can sympathize with your feelings and confusion. When I began looking into Catholicism I started going through each point of teaching to see why the Church teaches what she does. Eventually I realized the the Church did have the fullness of truth and is the church founded by Jesus.

What I would suggest is to read a book or two by Scott Hahn (a former Protestant minister). He writes from a former Protestant’s point of view, which could be helpful. Also take a slightly different approach to those things you don’t understand. Instead of assuming the Church has a devious reason for a teaching (money, power, or land), and assume they are doing so to point the Church members toward what is holy.

Hope this helps![BIBLEDRB][/BIBLEDRB]

 

[jmcrae]

That is a good question. I suppose there isn’t any scripture that says it is the only authority. Good response. However, why does the Catholic church say that its teachings are the authority along with the Bible?

In Matthew 16:19, we read that Jesus said to Peter, our first Catholic Pope, “Whatever you (meaning the Pope of the Catholic Church) bind on earth is bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth is loosed in Heaven.”

What this means is that the Pope has the authority to make whatever rule he wants to make for the Church, and God will consider those rules to be just as binding as the Ten Commandments - which is, that you would not only be punished in this life, but also in the life hereafter, for disobeying them.

I am a worrier so it’s kind of senseless to be planning all this right now but I feel it is important to have everything out on the table beforehand.

This is actually very sensible. You don’t want to wait until your child is born, to find out how you are going to be raising her, or where she is going to be baptized. You do need to get these questions settled before you get married, so that you both know what the plan is, when the time comes, and nobody gets caught off-guard with something they don’t agree with.

 

[Nicea325]

**

That is a good question. I suppose there isn’t any scripture that says it is the only authority. Good response. However, why does the Catholic church say that its teachings are the authority along with the Bible?

It is not what the Catholic Church says,but what JESUS said and built. Read your Bible in its entirety and take verses out-of-context,First of all,the error many Protestants make is the belief the Bible is ABOVE the church. Wrong! Care to show me where Jesus left a nicely written book called the Bible containing the exact books your Bible contains? Where does Jesus teach: The Bible is the ONLY and FINAL authority? No where! Jesus left a CHURCH with AUTHORITY,not a Bible. The very Bible you own is a byproduct of the church.The church didn’t derive from the Bible. And guess what? It is the Roman Catholic Church,who decided which books should be part of a larger book called the Bible. One of the many errors Protestants is their failure to study church history. The Church,Sacred Tradition and the Sacred Scripture are all equals,complimentary and supplement each other. Protestants have the habit of pitting them against each other.

**LaurAsh988:

I know most churches believe what they believe is right but I guess I’m of the mind that there is no one “right” way to believe. We are all God’s children. Sometimes I feel like a floater among Christianity but I would say I believe in most of my church’s teachings.**

No offense,but that is the whole problem of believing the Bible is the FINAL authority.Look at what it has caused? Thousands upon thousands of different churches and evidently they are not teaching the same.If they all claim to be God’s children,then why go spilt off from the Church Christ left and go start an entire new one? Precisely why I do not follow any church who has a human founder.

**LaurAsh988:

ETA: I am pretty serious with my boyfriend and we have discussed what if we had marriage, children, etc and how they would be raised. It’s a ways in the future but if we were to expose our children to both churches and let them decide for themselves when they are of age (13 or 14), even if they were baptised in one church because we both believe in infant baptism, would that be a major faux pas? I am a worrier so it’s kind of senseless to be planning all this right now but I feel it is important to have everything out on the table beforehand.****

My advice to you is to first understand the RCC faith from the horse’s mouth,the RCC itself and not all the ‘hearsay’ and false information by those who are not Catholic.

Good luck

 

[LaurAsh988]

Thank you so much everyone. This is a lot to absorb this late at night when I am tired so I will have to read each response individually and thoughtfully tomorrow. You all have given me much to think about, especially when referencing Jesus saying that his way is the only way. Very very interesting and thought provoking and really makes me question the way that I was thinking, which is good.

At this point in my life I am not interested in converting but I am interested in attending a Catholic mass, as it is something that I have never done. I will admit that the recent things in the news about the Catholic church has deeply upset me and it is hard to think rationally when all of these things are thrown at you so it’s nice to get real perspective from these boards.

Again I thank you all for taking the time out to respond to my post. It is very appreciated!

 

[crazzeto]

With regard to “the Churches teachings are right, and no others are”… Think of it this way, do you believe God is pluarlistic? That is to say, do you think god is whatever you believe he is? So effectivly there’s a methodist God, a Catholic God, a Baptist God, a Mulsim God? If so, and each church are correct about thier doctrine, then how do we decide who’s saved, and who isn’t? Because I tell you, there are some very conflicting opinions in that group.

Or does it in fact, stand to reason that there is one and only one God. And that one, and only one Church has the fullness of the Truth, untarnished by error.

 

[Church_Militant]

Thank you so much everyone. This is a lot to absorb this late at night when I am tired so I will have to read each response individually and thoughtfully tomorrow. You all have given me much to think about, especially when referencing Jesus saying that his way is the only way. Very very interesting and thought provoking and really makes me question the way that I was thinking, which is good.

At this point in my life I am not interested in converting but I am interested in attending a Catholic mass, as it is something that I have never done.

You might want to have a look at this before you go. It will give you a good idea about what you will see and hear when you go to Mass. Order of Mass: Basic Texts for the Roman Catholic Eucharist

Please also keep in mind that we do not practice “open communion”, for many reasons, not the least of which is that the early church did not. These links to a Papal encyclical and article will also help explain why.

• [Who Can Receive Communion? (http://www.catholic.com/library/Who_Can_Receive_Communion.asp)
• Ecclesia de Eucharistia (Note especially sections 43-46)

I will admit that the recent things in the news about the Catholic church has deeply upset me and it is hard to think rationally when all of these things are thrown at you so it’s nice to get real perspective from these boards.

Again I thank you all for taking the time out to respond to my post. It is very appreciated!

You’re not alone. All of us Catholics are distressed by the scandals in the news, but one has to remember that sins/crimes of individuals do not invalidate the truths of the faith any more than Judas’ betrayal and St. Peter’s denial invalidated it at the time of the crucifixion. Most priests, in fact, the vast majority, are holy and good men who are totally committed to Christ and the service of His Church. The enemy hates that Church and has always assaulted it from within and without. Today, the news just travels at the speed of cyberspace.

 

[kepha1]

Welcome LaurAsh :flowers:

Vatican II through out “condemnations” and “anethemas” and that kind of 400 year old language and expanded the definition of “Church”. Basically, Vatican II marked the end of the Reformation, at least from our end.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.”* 269** The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism** 270** - do not occur without human sin: *
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.* 271*
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”* 272*

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth”* 273** are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.”* 274* Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,* 275* and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”** 276*

So the Catholic Church recognizes the “elements of sanctification and truth” found in other churches, she does not claim to have the corner market on the truth. Truth must be served, not owned. To put it another way, everything that is true in Protestantism came from Catholicism. It’s not arrogance, just historical fact. The Catholic Church is not interested in misrepresenting or putting down Protestantism and 99.9% of what you see in this forum is defensive. I take up most of the .1% The Church wants to focus on what is true, not on what she may hold in error.

I … It has always been my personal belief that what is in the Bible is what a person is to follow, not what man says.

We think the Church and the Bible say the same thing.

Take it slow, and I hope you have the time to find out why the Mass is a Sacrifice and not a service. If I may suggest, since you are probably planning to attend the Easter Vigil, it would be wise to focus your information gathering on preparing for that, so you get the most out of it. Since Catholicism is a thinking person’s religion, we tend to avalanche inquirorors with too much information, and Holy Week is next week.

We do all kinds of fun things like make a fire and turn out the lights, and everybody gets a candle. Don’t miss it!

Peter

 

[kepha1]

Methodist-Catholic Dialogue Discusses Care for God’s Creation

WASHINGTON—The U.S. Methodist-Catholic Dialogue launched a new five-year round of meetings, December 16-18, 2008, at St. Paul’s College in Washington, discussing environmental stewardship. The dialogue, which had not met since 2005, brought together new delegations of scholars from the United Methodist Church (UMC) and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB).