Protestantism Today

[Roy5]

Catholics don’t need to give up anything. My main concern is mutual respect. We live in a national founded by Protestants - 55 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, for example. They and their faith deserve respect instead of continuous assault, which tends to be a common practice here on CAF. They are not ignorant. They try to follow the same Christ. They founded great American universities, hundreds of them, beginning with Harvard, Yale, William and Mary, Princeton, Columbia, and countless others.
Hostility against Protestantism simply leads Protestants to think of Catholicism as narrow-minded, parochial, and even bigoted. There can be friendly dialogue about differences, and many posters engage in that. Others sppear to be embittered, motivated more by prejudice and tribalism (and often ignorance) than anything else. It shouldn't be us versus them, but us, fellow Christians, brothers and sisters.

 

[Nicea325]

** It’s important to understand that Protestants believe that the early Christians were on target, **but over the Middle Ages the need for the Reformation developed when Catholicism veered further and further from the original church and became an institution controlled in large part by church politics and politicians, corrupted by money and luxurious living in the Vatican and elsewhere, and increasingly invaded by superstitions, myths and wild apparations and such that were borrowed from world of paganism. Perhaps most disturbing were new doctrines that they believed departed from the scriptures.

 **Whether the Protestants are right or wrong, the notion that Protestants are ignorant when it comes to the history of the church is not fair.** Like Catholics, Protestants run the gamut from those that are very versed in scripture and history to those who aren't. Since I have both within my family circle, I have always hoped that the hostility that sometimes shows its ugly head could be replaced by mutual respect and the love which Christ commanded.

** As we mark another Thanksgiving let’s not forget that the USA was founded by Protestants** (e. g., 55 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence). Should we dismiss them and their faith as heretics and heresy? Nonsense. There are brilliant theologians and saintly people among both groups. Up until modern times, the Papacy opposed true freedom of religion. Read, for example, the “Syllabus of Errors” by Piux IX (1864). It is a diatribe against much that we hold dear in our American democracy.

 We need less dogmatism and arrogance and more respect for other views and humility.

New doctrines that departed from the scriptures? What NEW doctrines? Second,when and where did the Apostles teach the scriptures would be the only source to determine standards?

As for the U.S. being founded by Protestants? The fact Protestanism ideals founded the U.S. has NO bearing on God’s Truth-none!

 

[LilHomemaker]

Every Protestant has his/her own personal interpretation (i.e., opinion) of the Bible – or they accept someone else’s personal interpretation.

And while following someone else’s interpretation should they come to disagree with it, they move to somewhere or someone else until they find someone they agree with. I heard someone say once they tried 30 some different churches before finding one they agreed with. Protestants are looking for someone who preaches what they believe is true, instead of looking for what the truth is and coming to believe it.

Adding to this problem more so now are people tired of trying all the different churches so they start “house churches.” The belief is that the churches out there aren’t getting this right so lets just stay home, invite people in and see if we can’t figure this thing out. So instead of having one Pope, we have thousands and thousands of popes. Everyone is their own pope.
You wouldn’t run a business that way. No wonder Jesus prayed for unity. We definitely need to also. Pray that peoples eyes will be open to the truth.

 

[wisdomseeker]

And while following someone else’s interpretation should they come to disagree with it, they move to somewhere or someone else until they find someone they agree with. I heard someone say once they tried 30 some different churches before finding one they agreed with. Protestants are looking for someone who preaches what they believe is true, instead of looking for what the truth is and coming to believe it.

Adding to this problem more so now are people tired of trying all the different churches so they start “house churches.” The belief is that the churches out there aren’t getting this right so lets just stay home, invite people in and see if we can’t figure this thing out. So instead of having one Pope, we have thousands and thousands of popes. Everyone is their own pope.
You wouldn’t run a business that way. No wonder Jesus prayed for unity. We definitely need to also. Pray that peoples eyes will be open to the truth.

It is very difficult when so much fear was put into them agaisnt the CC.

 

[Roy5]

What is attractive about mainline Protestantism is precisely what many rail against. It is the freedom to think for oneself and not be required to follow what is handed down from the Magisterium. Most Catholics here on CAF prefer to adhere to the official position of the church on everything. Fine. No problem. Their choice.

 On the other hand, there are an increasing number of Catholics who like to weigh doctrines and practices. They no longer have the fear that once was so strong among Catholics. I recall, growing up, that the local priest was all but venerated. His word was law. After all, he could turn bread and wine into Christ's body and blood and could forgive sins at confession. When he entered the classroom he was welcomed as an image of Christ himself.

 Today I return to that same hometown. Attendance at Mass has fallen dramatically, the priest serves two other rural churches, the parochial school closed years ago, the convent is empty of nuns, etc. 

 What did this? Many factors contributed. A rebellion against hand-me-down religion. Many more college graduates who studied faiths other than Catholicism and rubbed shoulders with wise people of other religions.. The influence of democracy. Popular culture (certainly negative in many instances). The foolish papal condemnation of artificial birth control, which led many Catholic couples to thumb their nose (which led to further nose-thumbing). The priestly sex scandal involving an irresponsible hierarchy in some instances. Increase in scientific study which can undermine certain Biblical tales learned as true in parochial school (e. g., Adam and Eve). Stories about Corapi and others have disllusioned and confused many. And that other leader - what was his name? - Legionnaires of Christ leader? - a friend of John Paul II who was living a double life. Many also have trouble with the Padre Pios and the Opus Dei. They seem to some to reflect a medieval mindset. Etc.  

  The CC needs to face up to this crisis and realize that we no longer live in a society where the church can say 'stay' and the faithful will stay. We are well-educated compared to 50 and more years ago.Millions also have been trained in democratic-style thinking and don't automatically take their cue from the church. 

   God bless the Catholic Church and those churches of all Christians. May we learn to live together in mutual respect. May religion serve as a bridge rather than as a barrier. May Christian tribalism be supplanted by a genuine sense of Christian unity. May people of every creed, color, culture and country work together to advance love and bring peace. Christ would want that.

 

[wisdomseeker]

What is attractive about mainline Protestantism is precisely what many rail against. It is the freedom to think for oneself and not be required to follow what is handed down from the Magisterium. Most Catholics here on CAF prefer to adhere to the official position of the church on everything. Fine. No problem. Their choice.

 On the other hand, there are an increasing number of Catholics who like to weigh doctrines and practices. They no longer have the fear that once was so strong among Catholics. I recall, growing up, that the local priest was all but venerated. His word was law. After all, he could turn bread and wine into Christ's body and blood and could forgive sins at confession. When he entered the classroom he was welcomed as an image of Christ himself.

 Today I return to that same hometown. Attendance at Mass has fallen dramatically, the priest serves two other rural churches, the parochial school closed years ago, the convent is empty of nuns, etc. 

 What did this? Many factors contributed. A rebellion against hand-me-down religion. Many more college graduates who studied faiths other than Catholicism and rubbed shoulders with wise people of other religions.. The influence of democracy. Popular culture (certainly negative in many instances). The foolish papal condemnation of artificial birth control, which led many Catholic couples to thumb their nose (which led to further nose-thumbing). The priestly sex scandal involving an irresponsible hierarchy in some instances. Increase in scientific study which can undermine certain Biblical tales learned as true in parochial school (e. g., Adam and Eve). Stories about Corapi and others have disllusioned and confused many. And that other leader - what was his name? - Legionnaires of Christ leader? - a friend of John Paul II who was living a double life. Many also have trouble with the Padre Pios and the Opus Dei. They seem to some to reflect a medieval mindset. Etc.  

  The CC needs to face up to this crisis and realize that we no longer live in a society where the church can say 'stay' and the faithful will stay. We are well-educated compared to 50 and more years ago.Millions also have been trained in democratic-style thinking and don't automatically take their cue from the church. 

   God bless the Catholic Church and those churches of all Christians. May we learn to live together in mutual respect. May religion serve as a bridge rather than as a barrier. May Christian tribalism be supplanted by a genuine sense of Christian unity. May people of every creed, color, culture and country work together to advance love and bring peace. Christ would want that.

The Church may be battled but never defeated. I dont care how smart you or others think you all are, in the end Christ and His Church will win.

 

[LilHomemaker]

The Church may be battled but never defeated. I dont care how smart you or others think you all are, in the end Christ and His Church will win.

OH Yeah!

 

[JonNC]

Peace, my friend.

=Jim Dandy;8619078]Protestants feel compelled to explain why they aren’t Catholic, but few know or understand Catholicism.

I only feel compelled when on CAF.

Many Protestants also know little about the history of the Bible they profess to live by. They don’t know that the New Testament consists of 27 of the Catholic Church’s own writings and that the Catholic Church compiled the Bible at the end of the fourth century. The Bible is a Catholic book.

I’ll bet there’s lots of Catholics in the same boat. Is it an Orthodox book, too?

When I was a Protestant, I was also ignorant of the Truth. It never occurred to me to ask where we got the Bible. I guess I thought it fell out of heaven.

Jim, simply because your former faith communion might have been ignorant of history, doesn’t mean all non-Catholic communities are. I certainly know where the Bible came from, and the role the undivided Church played in its compilation.

But God chose to make the Catholic Church the agent of the Holy Spiirt to produce the Bible.

Is the Orthodox also an agent of the Holy Spirit? And I would say compile is a much better term.

Every Protestant has his/her own personal interpretation (i.e., opinion) of the Bible – or they accept someone else’s personal interpretation. But only the Church who wrote the NT knows what it means. The Church is not based on the NT; rather, the NT is based on the Church.

Do the Orthodox know what it means?

I only say this about Orthodoxy because the compiling at the time of the 400 century because the Church was not in schism. It seems obvious to me that they are an agent of the Holy Spirit. And the CC claims that the Spirit uses our “ecclesial communities”, too.
Through our baptism, we are all part of the body of Christ, and therefore the NT is ours too.

Jon

 

[LilHomemaker]

What is attractive about mainline Protestantism is precisely what many rail against. It is the freedom to think for oneself and not be required to follow what is handed down from the Magisterium. Most Catholics here on CAF prefer to adhere to the official position of the church on everything. Fine. No problem. Their choice.

 On the other hand, there are an increasing number of Catholics who like to weigh doctrines and practices. They no longer have the fear that once was so strong among Catholics. I recall, growing up, that the local priest was all but venerated. His word was law. After all, he could turn bread and wine into Christ's body and blood and could forgive sins at confession. When he entered the classroom he was welcomed as an image of Christ himself.

 Today I return to that same hometown. Attendance at Mass has fallen dramatically, the priest serves two other rural churches, the parochial school closed years ago, the convent is empty of nuns, etc. 

 What did this? Many factors contributed. A rebellion against hand-me-down religion. Many more college graduates who studied faiths other than Catholicism and rubbed shoulders with wise people of other religions.. The influence of democracy. Popular culture (certainly negative in many instances). The foolish papal condemnation of artificial birth control, which led many Catholic couples to thumb their nose (which led to further nose-thumbing). The priestly sex scandal involving an irresponsible hierarchy in some instances. Increase in scientific study which can undermine certain Biblical tales learned as true in parochial school (e. g., Adam and Eve). Stories about Corapi and others have disllusioned and confused many. And that other leader - what was his name? - Legionnaires of Christ leader? - a friend of John Paul II who was living a double life. Many also have trouble with the Padre Pios and the Opus Dei. They seem to some to reflect a medieval mindset. Etc.  

  The CC needs to face up to this crisis and realize that we no longer live in a society where the church can say 'stay' and the faithful will stay. We are well-educated compared to 50 and more years ago.Millions also have been trained in democratic-style thinking and don't automatically take their cue from the church. 

   God bless the Catholic Church and those churches of all Christians. May we learn to live together in mutual respect. May religion serve as a bridge rather than as a barrier. May Christian tribalism be supplanted by a genuine sense of Christian unity. May people of every creed, color, culture and country work together to advance love and bring peace. Christ would want that.

God doesn’t change. Just because 50 years have gone by doesn’t mean God’s ways change. Just because however many years have gone by doesn’t mean we can decide which doctrines we want to believe and which ones we don’t. God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

The Church isn’t just some organization. It is God’s organization. All you have to do is look back in history and see how it has withstood and it always will. What other denomination can say that? Talk about Catholic church attendance being low. That’s everywhere. That’s just secularism and modernism and confusion driving people from any church. Along with Catholics not knowing their faith. Leaving church is even in protestantism. Protestantism shows its deception by its inability to withstand its attacks. That is evident by its constant division and closing up of so many churches. In my neighborhood aloneI we have several empty church buildings. They broke up, divided, split, left. Put the building up for sale.

God is waking up the Catholic church and people are returning in great majorities, realizing that there is nothing out there and the only place is the Catholic church.

Being modern isn’t going to change that.shaw:

If protestantism held truths everyone would still be Lutherans.

God bless.

Sue

 

[JonNC]

If protestantism held truths everyone would still be Lutherans.

God bless.

Sue

Hi Sue,
Not every protestant was Lutheran at the start of the Reformation.

Jon

 

[LilHomemaker]

Hi Sue,
Not every protestant was Lutheran at the start of the Reformation.

Jon

True. :yup:

There were others at the time and some who came before him but the biggest start of the reformation started with Luther’s thesis. Calvin was another big one.
The church has always had to defend itself against heresies and protesters even before him and will continue to have to fight heresies.

Thanks

Sue

 

[CopticChristian]

What is attractive about mainline Protestantism is precisely what many rail against. It is the freedom to think for oneself and not be required to follow what is handed down from the Magisterium. Most Catholics here on CAF prefer to adhere to the official position of the church on everything. Fine. No problem. Their choice.

 On the other hand, there are an increasing number of Catholics who like to weigh doctrines and practices. They no longer have the fear that once was so strong among Catholics. I recall, growing up, that the local priest was all but venerated. His word was law. After all, he could turn bread and wine into Christ's body and blood and could forgive sins at confession. When he entered the classroom he was welcomed as an image of Christ himself.

 Today I return to that same hometown. Attendance at Mass has fallen dramatically, the priest serves two other rural churches, the parochial school closed years ago, the convent is empty of nuns, etc. 

 What did this? Many factors contributed. A rebellion against hand-me-down religion. Many more college graduates who studied faiths other than Catholicism and rubbed shoulders with wise people of other religions.. The influence of democracy. Popular culture (certainly negative in many instances). The foolish papal condemnation of artificial birth control, which led many Catholic couples to thumb their nose (which led to further nose-thumbing). The priestly sex scandal involving an irresponsible hierarchy in some instances. Increase in scientific study which can undermine certain Biblical tales learned as true in parochial school (e. g., Adam and Eve). Stories about Corapi and others have disllusioned and confused many. And that other leader - what was his name? - Legionnaires of Christ leader? - a friend of John Paul II who was living a double life. Many also have trouble with the Padre Pios and the Opus Dei. They seem to some to reflect a medieval mindset. Etc.  

  The CC needs to face up to this crisis and realize that we no longer live in a society where the church can say 'stay' and the faithful will stay. We are well-educated compared to 50 and more years ago.Millions also have been trained in democratic-style thinking and don't automatically take their cue from the church. 

   God bless the Catholic Church and those churches of all Christians. May we learn to live together in mutual respect. May religion serve as a bridge rather than as a barrier. May Christian tribalism be supplanted by a genuine sense of Christian unity. May people of every creed, color, culture and country work together to advance love and bring peace. Christ would want that.

The Church where I grew up is flourishing. The nunery is full. The school is full. The High School is full. The Church I attend now continues to grow. You ought to move. Recall that Hippo went Arian and the Church survived.

 

[JonNC]

True. :yup:

There were others at the time and some who came before him but the biggest start of the reformation started with Luther’s thesis. Calvin was another big one.
The church has always had to defend itself against heresies and protesters even before him and will continue to have to fight heresies.

Thanks

Sue

Further, Sue. If your claim is that because not all protestants are Lutheran, therefore there is no truth in it, then what can be said about Catholicism, since ALL the reformers were once Catholic? If splintering means no truth, then…

Jon

 

[andrewstx]

Catholics don’t need to give up anything. My main concern is mutual respect. We live in a national founded by Protestants - 55 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, for example. They and their faith deserve respect instead of continuous assault, which tends to be a common practice here on CAF. They are not ignorant. They try to follow the same Christ. They founded great American universities, hundreds of them, beginning with Harvard, Yale, William and Mary, Princeton, Columbia, and countless others.

 Hostility against Protestantism simply leads Protestants to think of Catholicism as narrow-minded, parochial, and even bigoted. There can be friendly dialogue about differences, and many posters engage in that. Others sppear to be embittered, motivated more by prejudice and tribalism (and often ignorance) than anything else. It shouldn't be us versus them, but us, fellow Christians, brothers and sisters.

Maybe the signers of the DOI were Protestants becuase they all came from the UK. Catholics were heavily persecuted in the UK at the time, and in the colonies as well.

Thanksgiving reminds me of this truth so much, we have it pounded into our heads that the Pilgrims came here to establish religous freedom. But what is neglected in our public schools is the came here to establish freedom for themselves only.

As soon as the Puritans came into power they started persecuting everyone else. Not only Catholics but Anglicans, Quakers and even Baptists.

It took the Baptists in Rhode Island and the Catholics in Maryland along with the Friends (Quakers) to estabish religious freedom in pockets of the colonies.

 

[andrewstx]

Maybe the signers of the DOI were Protestants becuase they all came from the UK. Catholics were heavily persecuted in the UK at the time, and in the colonies as well.

Thanksgiving reminds me of this truth so much, we have it pounded into our heads that the Pilgrims came here to establish religous freedom. But what is neglected in our public schools is the came here to establish freedom for themselves only.

As soon as the Puritans came into power they started persecuting everyone else. Not only Catholics but Anglicans, Quakers and even Baptists.

It took the Baptists in Rhode Island and the Catholics in Maryland along with the Friends (Quakers) to estabish religious freedom in pockets of the colonies.

I really admire the Baptists of Rhode Island for truly establishing freedom of religion in the US and I think it sad how the Southern Baptists seek to establish a theocracy currently.

 

[LilHomemaker]

Further, Sue. If your claim is that because not all protestants are Lutheran, therefore there is no truth in it, then what can be said about Catholicism, since ALL the reformers were once Catholic? If splintering means no truth, then…

Jon

My question is, my thought is, that if Luther was the great reformer as protestants claim he is, why do not all protestants follow his teachings? As an ex-protestant I have read some of his teachings. Much of what he said, as we all know was in protest of the Catholic church but there was much he did not want to throw out. That is what the continual protesting of the protestant movement has done, though. Protesting to the point where in many churches there isn’t much left except entertainment. Truths are very difficult to find. Even prayer is very shallow and a minute at the most. Game shows, skits, tootsie roll pops, popcorn, m&m’s, making fun of Jesus and the apostles, soccer, hoola hoops, Elvis Presley and so much more are now big in mainline and evangelical churches. These things I list because these things I saw in both mainline and evangelical churches. I have a feeling this is not what Luther intended.

Also, just because someone was once part of truth doesn’t mean once they splinter or leave they are still part of the truth. They may take some truths with them but they have left truth behind. Just because people have left the Catholic church and started their own church doesn’t mean the true Catholic church is not still there as it has been since Jesus started it. He promised it would always be.

People join non Christian faiths, that doesn’t mean the truth of the Church has left. It just means people leave the truth.

Also, I should put that I should have stated it different. Protestantism does have some truths of Christianity but unfortunately when you don’t know ALL the truth then lies and falsehoods creep in and you find yourself moving farther and farther away from what is true. The Catholic Church, because of the wonderful grace of our Lord, holds the fullness of truth.

 

[joe370]

My question is, my thought is, that if Luther was the great reformer as protestants claim he is, why do not all protestants follow his teachings?

Not all Protestants believe that ML was a great reformer. Some Protestant churches trace their lineage back to other 16th, 17th, 18th etc. century reformers who, for whatever reason, left the Catholic church or left their Protestant church.

 

[PatrickK]

Protestants have had their 400 year or so protest, why is it still going on?

I mean just take a look at the apostles creed.

 

[CopticChristian]

Protestants have had their 400 year or so protest,** why is it still going on?**I mean just take a look at the apostles creed.

Because people die and thoughts transmit time. Sabellianism of old is Oneness Pentacostals of today…that it why.

 

[LilHomemaker]

Not all Protestants believe that ML was a great reformer. Some Protestant churches trace their lineage back to other 16th, 17th, 18th etc. century reformers who, for whatever reason, left the Catholic church or left their Protestant church.