Protestantism Today

[rdscheirer]

Could it be that what you witnessed was a reverential observance of the Mass rather than apathy etc - I do not shout out and demonstrate as some sects do- I am there to worship God and to try to re-align myself into what He wants- I am woefully short in terms of knowing exactly how God wants to be worshipped other than through the Mass.

 

[Tony888]

Herein lies the difference between how Catholics and Protestants worship.
When I go to Mass my attention is in prayer, the Tabernacle, the liturgy.
What others are doing, wearing, or saying is really none of my business. My focus is on the Presence of Christ, not on the skimpy outfit the lady in front of me has, disruptive children, or whether or not that guy in the second pew seems to be going through the motions.
Again, none of my business.
I am there to focus on God, not man.
Sounds like an attention problem.

Justa,
It’s hardly realistic to take this personal scenario and blow it out to represent truth

• all Protestants people watch, and thus do not worship God during service
• all Catholics are focused on worship during Mass, like you.

All faiths have their share of distracted and focused worshipers. I’ve been known to do fulfill both tendencies in the same service .

 

[CopticChristian]

Jim Dandy;8619078:

Many Protestants also know little about the history of the Bible they profess to live by. They don’t know that the New Testament consists of 27 of the Catholic Church’s own writings and that the Catholic Church compiled the Bible at the end of the fourth century. The Bible is a Catholic book.QUOTE]

So the Catholic Church added their** two cents **

in? How is this the true word of God then???

You intrigue me. What is the meaning of “two cents”…Thank you.

 

[Roy5]

I think it is dangerous to generalize about Protestants. There are many highly intelligent Protestants in America and around the world. It is silly to assume that the only reason they are not Catholics is because they are ignorant of Catholicism. Many of them are well-read on the history of the church, including the Church Fathers. They know Catholic theology rather thoroughly. Yet, they choose to remain (or become) Protestant.

The clerk of a prominent local church indicates that well over 50% of the members of her church are ex-Catholics, many of them having attended parochial schools and colleges. 

 Nearly anything one says about Protestants can be affirmed or contradicted. The same probably is true of Catholics. Some are devout. Others are Christians in little more than name only. Some worship regularly. Others are C&E (Christmas and Easter) Christians. Some believe the traditional teachings. Others doubt or reject some or many of them.

  The notion that there are thousands of Protestant sects is misleading. Most Protestants belong to a few major families, and these families are apt to work together through councils of churches. The main groups are Lutherans, Anglicans, Wesleyans (Methodists), Reformed (Presbyterians, UCC etc), Baptists and Pentecostalists. Then there are various smaller groups such as Quakers, Mennonites, Salvation Army, Church of God, etc. Most major Protestant groups as well as Eastern Orthodox churches and the Coptic Orthodox are part of the World Council of Churches. The Vatican sends observers but is not a member.

 

[CopticChristian]

I think it is dangerous to generalize about Protestants. There are many highly intelligent Protestants in America and around the world. It is silly to assume that the only reason they are not Catholics is because they are ignorant of Catholicism. Many of them are well-read on the history of the church, including the Church Fathers. They know Catholic theology rather thoroughly. Yet, they choose to remain (or become) Protestant.

The clerk of a prominent local church indicates that well over 50% of the members of her church are ex-Catholics, many of them having attended parochial schools and colleges. 

 Nearly anything one says about Protestants can be affirmed or contradicted. The same probably is true of Catholics. Some are devout. Others are Christians in little more than name only. Some worship regularly. Others are C&E (Christmas and Easter) Christians. Some believe the traditional teachings. Others doubt or reject some or many of them.

  The notion that there are thousands of Protestant sects is misleading. Most Protestants belong to a few major families, and these families are apt to work together through councils of churches. The main groups are Lutherans, Anglicans, Wesleyans (Methodists), Reformed (Presbyterians, UCC etc), Baptists and **Pentecostalists.** Then there are various smaller groups such as Quakers, Mennonites, Salvation Army, Church of God, etc. Most major Protestant groups as well as Eastern Orthodox churches and the Coptic Orthodox are part of the World Council of Churches. The Vatican sends observers but is not a member.

I am not so sure I understand why you so vehemently defend Protestant thought. You yourself deny that the Scripture is inerrant. Protestants I know, in particular the ones you name don’t do that. You may want to check your statistics. The only group that is growing is Pentatacostal, AOG and Mormon. The others are dwindling in the world regardless of what you want to think and believe. Evangelicals and many others call the World Council of Churches anything but an organization to work with. Where have you been? The real world is not your world.

 

[hn160]

Could it be that what you witnessed was a reverential observance of the Mass rather than apathy etc - I do not shout out and demonstrate as some sects do- I am there to worship God and to try to re-align myself into what He wants- I am woefully short in terms of knowing exactly how God wants to be worshipped other than through the Mass.

The Catholics are not the only ones that have the lock on a reverent service of the Mass, If you would ever attend a Lutheran Divine Service, you would see a service that God comes to us in confession and Absolution, His Word read and preached, and in the Sacrament of the Altar, It is the Lutheran view that the arrow from Heaven points downward to the people of God in the church whereas in Evangelical Churches the arrow point upwards from the congregation to Heaven with their praise bands.

 

[Roy5]

Let’s see, my friend CopticChristian. Both Catholics and Protestants have dwindled considerably in the West. The continuing claims that - for example - 97% of Italians are Catholics, ditto for Spaniards, etc., are totally unrealistic. Millions of these are cafeteria Catholics if Catholic at all. Check out Quebec and Ireland, two of the most Catholic places in times past. See what has happened to Catholicism there. The Pope himself has spoken to this situation. In a place like Brazil, I’ve read that more Protestants (mostly Evangelicals) are at worship on a weekend than Catholics. True? The same is said of places like Guatamala. Certainly true in South Africa, Kenya and elsewhere in Africa. Just reporting what I’ve heard.

 Yes, Catholicism has been growing mostly in Africa, where Protestantism also has been growing rapidly. Bear in mind, incidentally, that many Protestant groups report only membership figures rather than baptised persons (as Catholics do). Take Methodists as one example. There are roughly 22 million of them in the USA, yet Methodist denominations report only about half that number. Like Catholicism, many in Methodism are nominal in the practice of their faith.

 By the way, the AOG (Assemblies of God) is a Pentecostal denomination. True, it is among Pentecostalists where the growth has been almost sensational, especially in Latin America and Africa, but even here in the USA. Many Latinos in the USA have joined them. The rather expressive - well, emotional - form of worship seems to have considerable appeal. Even Catholicism has been influenced by it as you know - the charismatic movement. 

 Wouldn't it be great if the Catholic Church loosened up, permitted greater theological latitude, allowed their priests to marry, were less demanding when it comes to strict worship patterns, perhaps even ordained women - and millions (like me) could then feel right at home within Catholicism? Until there is such freedom that is unlikely.

 On the other hand, devout Catholics should relax. You certainly believe that Christ is in control, that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church, that Catholicism will emerge triumphant. It's just that many of us aren't convinced of that. We believe that Christ is much less interested in a ruling hierarchy, elaborate pageantry and infallible catechism than in true humility, simple faith, and most especially love of God and one another. Hats off to the Mother Theresas and Fr. Damiens. They exemplified the real spirit of Christ.

 Keep smiling.

 

[Izdaari]

What the Church will, and must, prevent is the teaching of error, as in the Hans Kung matter. Now, the Church could not have stopped him from teaching, per se, but only in those areas it has influence.

Do people really believe the Church can ignore the propogation of heresy, etc, especially in its own backyard? We would quickly degenerate to 30 000 congragations, where the whim of the individ ual is greater than the Gospel! Is there any single piece of Scripture or Tradition that clearly states the subjectivism of the one is greater than God Himself? No, of course not.

Arrogance & pride is the root of divided Christianity. The prophecy of the baptist is what should guide us - " I must diminish so that He might increase"!

Except for the small problem that (IMHO) Hans Küng was not wrong and his teaching was not in error. He remains one of my favorite Christian writers, and I don’t particularly care which church he’s from.

 

[Izdaari]

 Yes, Catholicism has been growing mostly in Africa, where Protestantism also has been growing rapidly. Bear in mind, incidentally, that many Protestant groups report only membership figures rather than baptised persons (as Catholics do). Take Methodists as one example. There are roughly 22 million of them in the USA, yet Methodist denominations report only about half that number. Like Catholicism, many in Methodism are nominal in the practice of their faith.

Mmmhmm. Lots of nominal Christians in the world, from lots of different Churches.

By the way, the AOG (Assemblies of God) is a Pentecostal denomination. True, it is among Pentecostalists where the growth has been almost sensational, especially in Latin America and Africa, but even here in the USA. Many Latinos in the USA have joined them. The rather expressive - well, emotional - form of worship seems to have considerable appeal. Even Catholicism has been influenced by it as you know - the charismatic movement.

AG member here. :yyeess:

Wouldn’t it be great if the Catholic Church loosened up, permitted greater theological latitude, allowed their priests to marry, were less demanding when it comes to strict worship patterns, perhaps even ordained women - and millions (like me) could then feel right at home within Catholicism? Until there is such freedom that is unlikely.

As things stand now, I shall probably become Anglican (better doctrinal match for me than AG). But if those changes were to happen, I’d probably become Catholic instead. I’m not holding my breath.

On the other hand, devout Catholics should relax. You certainly believe that Christ is in control, that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church, that Catholicism will emerge triumphant. It’s just that many of us aren’t convinced of that. We believe that Christ is much less interested in a ruling hierarchy, elaborate pageantry and infallible catechism than in true humility, simple faith, and most especially love of God and one another. Hats off to the Mother Theresas and Fr. Damiens. They exemplified the real spirit of Christ.

Agreed.

 

[LilHomemaker]

As things stand now, I shall probably become Anglican (better doctrinal match for me than AG). But if those changes were to happen, I’d probably become Catholic instead. I’m not holding my breath.

The thing is people want God’s ways to change and you’re right, it won’t.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

As an ex-protestant myself, one tip. Don’t look for a denomination that believes the same as you. You will constantly be changing because you will change or you will discover truths about them you don’t like. You will end up confused. I know I did. I searched many a denomination.

Don’t decide what you believe is truth and search for it but instead search for the truth and then believe that.

 

[Izdaari]

The thing is people want God’s ways to change and you’re right, it won’t.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever.

As an ex-protestant myself, one tip. Don’t look for a denomination that believes the same as you. You will constantly be changing because you will change or you will discover truths about them you don’t like. You will end up confused. I know I did. I searched many a denomination.

Don’t decide what you believe is truth and search for it but instead search for the truth and then believe that.

And in fact, I do believe in going WHERE truth is. But my view of WHERE truth is very much affected by my view of WHAT truth is. It’s kinda hard to separate them.

 

[CopticChristian]

Let’s see, my friend CopticChristian. Both Catholics and Protestants have dwindled considerably in the West. The continuing claims that - for example - 97% of Italians are Catholics, ditto for Spaniards, etc., are totally unrealistic. Millions of these are cafeteria Catholics if Catholic at all. Check out Quebec and Ireland, two of the most Catholic places in times past. See what has happened to Catholicism there. The Pope himself has spoken to this situation. In a place like Brazil, I’ve read that more Protestants (mostly Evangelicals) are at worship on a weekend than Catholics. True? The same is said of places like Guatamala. Certainly true in South Africa, Kenya and elsewhere in Africa.** Just reporting what I’ve heard.**
Yes, Catholicism has been growing mostly in Africa, where Protestantism also has been growing rapidly. Bear in mind, incidentally, that many Protestant groups report only membership figures rather than baptised persons (as Catholics do). Take Methodists as one example. There are roughly 22 million of them in the USA, yet Methodist denominations report only about half that number. Like Catholicism, many in Methodism are nominal in the practice of their faith.

 By the way, the AOG (Assemblies of God) is a Pentecostal denomination. True, it is among Pentecostalists where the growth has been almost sensational, especially in Latin America and Africa, but even here in the USA. Many Latinos in the USA have joined them. The rather expressive - well, emotional - form of worship seems to have considerable appeal. Even Catholicism has been influenced by it as you know - the charismatic movement. 

 **Wouldn't it be great if the Catholic Church loosened up, permitted greater theological latitude, allowed their priests to marry, were less demanding when it comes to strict worship patterns, perhaps even ordained women - and millions (like me) could then feel right at home within Catholicism?** Until there is such freedom that is unlikely.

** On the other hand, devout Catholics should relax. You certainly believe that Christ is in control, that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church, that Catholicism will emerge triumphant. It’s just that many of us aren’t convinced of that. We believe that Christ is much less interested in a ruling hierarchy, elaborate pageantry and infallible catechism than in true humility, simple faith, and most especially love of God and one another.** Hats off to the Mother Theresas and Fr. Damiens. They exemplified the real spirit of Christ.

 Keep smiling.

Roy,

I think what you heard may be aided by a hearing aid.

No, what you propose, would not be great.

You may want to spend some time reading the exhortative letters of Paul that are contrary to “just relax”…You don’t see the Bible as inerrant so probably this will also fall on deaf ears…your hearing and judgment need attention, in my opinion.