Protestants and alcohol

[JamesCollins]

I find it hard to believe that a priest would include such matter in a homily. BTW, it is called a homily, not a sermon. Are you really Catholic? Now you have me doubting. No real Catholic would call a homily a sermon. Protestants have sermons, Catholics have homilies.

Paul

By the way this particular priest was delivering his text at a Lenten discussion series outside of mass on a Tuesday night. Doubting my Catholicism because of the use of a word is pretty offensive to me. I sacrificed a lot when I left the LDS Church for Catholicism. You were one of the folks who helped me in my journey so I will forgive you for your rude comment.

 

[Cat]

I find it hard to believe that a priest would include such matter in a homily. BTW, it is called a homily, not a sermon. Are you really Catholic? Now you have me doubting. No real Catholic would call a homily a sermon. Protestants have sermons, Catholics have homilies.

Paul

What we were told in RCIA is that the homily discusses the Scripture readings of the day, while a sermon could be about any topic.

If this is correct, then it does seem that it is more correct to refer to a “talk” about alcohol use and partying as a “sermon” rather than a homily.

If someone is a convert, or is part of a “mixed” family in which some are practicing Catholics and some are not, it is likely that they will use a varied “church” vocabulary. For example, after ten years of Catholicism (plus the two years of study and preparation), I still don’t “get” the word “intentions”. So I often use the term “prayer requests.” It just makes more sense to me.

And my husband never says, “nave.” He says “sanctuary.” It’s just habit, but he is very much a Catholic.

 

[Cat]

Yes, I read the article. I thought that the author and those he cited made excellent points regarding the abuse of alcohol. It is true that alcohol can ruin lives if improperly utilized. However, the article failed to demonstrate why alcohol is evil in itself, or why it can’t be enjoyed in moderation. That being said, I believe it is a noble thing for a Christian to renounce all alcohol use. But I simply can’t see any good reason for why you would ever expect the Church to place a ban on the consumption of alcohol by the faithful. I will say again - the Church will condemn drunkenness, but She will not condemn alcohol.

I also have to point out that the article made extensive use of slippery slope arguments. It seemed to infer that everyone who enjoys an occasional beer will one day have their lives ruined by alcohol abuse. This simply isn’t the case. When one becomes a Catholic, they are no required to drink. So they may simply choose not to. But to say that the Church should step in and ban the consumption of alcohol because “my grandfather had a drinking problem” is absurd.

I’m sure you’re right and the Church will never ban alcohol use, and intellectually (with my brain), I agree that there is no “sin” in casual alcohol use. I myself use soft drinks to make me happier–I love a good Pepsi or Coca Cola, and these contain the drug caffeine, and also quite a bit of sugar, both of which are addictive. Caffeine is a drug that affects behavior (makes us livelier). Sugar has questionable effects on behavior, but it definites affects the behavior of people like me who are addicted to it–we get very nervous without our sugar, and very peaceful when we take the first dose of sugar each day!

It is with my heart that I have a very difficult time accepting alcohol use by Christians.

I think the argument about “Grandfather had a drinking problem” can only be understood if you accept that people’s hearts condemn alcohol use. When someone’s life or family has been affected negatively by alcohol misuse, it is extremely difficult for them to see any good whatsoever in alcohol.

Now this isn’t always the case. Many people, including me, have had relatives and other dear one brutally slaughtered by stinkin’ drunk drivers who got a slap on the wrist from our U.S. court system. And yet, not all of those who’ve lost someone to alcohol take the approach that “alcohol is evil.”

But some do. I’m one of those. Over and over and OVER again, I read the newspaper and see, “alcohol was a factor in the murder,” or “the blood alcohol of the driver was over the legal limit,” or “the actor attempted rehab several times, but died due to an overdose of alcohol,” or “the fraternity initiate was forced to drink a toxic amount of alcohol and died.”

I see all these stories and I realize that death or illness because of alcohol is not rare in the U.S., it is FREQUENT. This isn’t something that only affects a tiny percentage of people. People die or have their lives destroyed by alcohol all the time–it’s pervasive in the United States.

And so that’s the argument about “grandpa”–is it really wise for Christians to use something that has such a notorious record of death and tragedy?

Aren’t we taking a terrible risk to admit Alcohol into our lives and homes? I think we are.

There’s also the argument by association, which the author of the article didn’t touch, but which is what both my husband and I grew up with. Alcohol is associated with drunkenness (a sin condemned by the Catholic Church) and a careless, worldly lifestyle that is more concerned with experiencing pleasure than with worshipping the Lord and working to help others know Him. For the wealthy, alcohol is often part of their materialistic lifestyle.

And for those old enough to remember, alcohol has been associated with criminal practices in the past.

Why would Catholics want to be in the same place with a product that is associated with so much evil? Why not live “clean” and be totally free of any possibility of becoming associated with the evil side of alcohol? Alcohol is a pretty insidious drug–lots of people who are alcoholics will say that they never started out deciding to be alcoholics, but the product got a grip on them and they couldn’t deal with it and it gradually destroyed their lives…

Right now, I’m listening to a CATHOLIC television show (before work), and the statement was just made that 1/4 of all people who drink alcohol are addicted. These are terrible odds! If my chances of winning the mega lottery were 1/4, I would play everyday! Why would people ever start a practice that 1/4 of people end up addicted to?! Eugh!

 

[Brendan_64]

 

[JamesCollins]

Cat’s comments are correct. I have seen the victims of alcoholism in my own family. None of them began drinking with the intention of becoming alcoholics. Every week I hear reports on the radio about someone who either died or killed someone else because they were driving drunk. The Church should not be encouraging drinkingg. One of my pet peeves is “Theology on Tap” where priests encourage young people to sit in a bar.

 

[Brendan_64]

We could say the same thing about over-eating. Obesity is a far greater threat to public health than alcohol, more people are clinically obese than suffer from alcohol problems. Irresponsible eating is as bad as irresponsible drinking. Should we ban soft drinks, cakes, chocolate, fast food, sugar even because a sizeable irresponsible minority are eating and drinking far too much of these, resulting in obesity and very serious health risks?

 

[Cat]

We could say the same thing about over-eating. Obesity is a far greater threat to public health than alcohol, more people are clinically obese than suffer from alcohol problems. Irresponsible eating is as bad as irresponsible drinking. Should we ban soft drinks, cakes, chocolate, fast food, sugar even because a sizeable irresponsible minority are eating and drinking far too much of these, resulting in obesity and very serious health risks?

I agree that Christians need to care for their “temple” (their body) and try to learn to eat in moderation rather than excess.

That being said, obesity does not generally destroy families as alcoholism does. Oh, yes, there are certainly dysfunctions in a family in which one or more members is obese–I’m not trying to say that it’s OK for Mom to be a hundred pounds overweight.

But obese people don’t ruin family get-togethers by passing out, or saying rude things, or becoming physically threatening.

And obese people don’t generally get into auto accidents and cause injury or death to others because they were “under the influence” of Twinkies.

And generally speaking, obese people are capable of keeping their job–they don’t get discharged because they were snoring at their desk after a late-night binge.

Food is not a “drug.” It can be used as a drug by those people like me who have learned to “medicate myself” with food instead of dealing with whatever issue I’m dealing with (stress, grief, loneliness, etc.). Food will trigger the “pleasure centers” of the brain and make it difficult for a person to refrain from going back for more and more.

But “food” is not a drug. It does not need to be regulated or restricted in its sale as alcohol is.

And food does not impair judgement or have any affect on the decision-making capabilities of the brain, or cause one to lose inhibitions. And for those of us who are chronic overeaters, we can testify that it doesn’t really make us happy. Alcohol, according to everyone who drinks it, makes people happy. Does it? Does it really?

BTW, the picture of Pope Benedict XVI drinking a beer, with the slogan, “argument rendered irrelevant,” should be used with care. There are many people who have lost loved ones to drink who would curse that picture, and use it as their reason for never, ever becoming Catholic.

 

[Miserissima]

This article is two years old, but it raises a lot of thought-provoking points: crossroadschristian.org/blogs/blog/12806077-can-a-christian-drink-alcohol#.U4SevI-wRnz.facebook

In closing, I would ask YOU, fellow Catholics–if you knew that a Protestant would convert to Catholicism if YOU quit drinking–would you?

No. No one should hang their hat on me, another sinner, as an example of anything. If it was laid on my heart to do so, I would. But it hasn’t been, and it sounds like a hollow way to evangelize.

No one should come into the Church because of my words or behavior, but because the Holy Spirit has called them. They can only see that I try, I am not perfect. And if moderate drinking isn’t a sin, potential converts are the ones to form their consciences, not the other way around.

This has more to do with “asking for respect” for my non-sinful choices than “expecting tolerance” for my non-sinful choices. The potential convert has to ask himself, “Am I convicted of the Truth enough in my heart that I can accept social drinking isn’t sinful, whether I participate or not?”

For example, say I’m called to fasting as a private devotion. Joe Smith may not be called to do that. Why would this choice separate us in light of the Eucharist? Do I consider myself more “holy” for a private devotion? Certainly that would be spiritual pride.

I’m not going to stop eating meat to make a vegetarian more comfortable in joining the Church. I would send them to the CAF Vegetarians group so they could find like-minded people for support. But no, I’m not called to evangelize or save souls in that way and although I would ask if anyone had ever felt moved to do so, such a challenge is patently unfair to another’s walk with Christ that should be respected.

In New England, I’ve seen more church festivals that served alcohol than where I live now, and the north is much more heavily dominated by protestant culture.

Funny thing about CAF, I can’t find any anti-teetotaler threads.

 

[christus_vincit]

And if moderate drinking isn’t a sin, potential converts are the ones to form their consciences, not the other way around.

Excellent point! That, in my opinion, is the proper way to look at the issue.

 

[Brendan_64]

That being said, obesity does not generally destroy families as alcoholism does. Oh, yes, there are certainly dysfunctions in a family in which one or more members is obese–I’m not trying to say that it’s OK for Mom to be a hundred pounds overweight.

But obese people don’t ruin family get-togethers by passing out, or saying rude things, or becoming physically threatening.

And obese people don’t generally get into auto accidents and cause injury or death to others because they were “under the influence” of Twinkies. .

Obesity still kills people and is a much bigger threat to life than alcohol. You don’t think families are ruined as a result of premature death of a family member due to fatal health problems as a result of over-eating?

It seems to me that sufferers of alcohol-related illnesses are seen as perpetrators of their own condition, whereas those who are obese from over-eating and end up with illnesses as a result are seen more as victims.

Over-eating is the biggest threat to public health that we face today, not alcohol. Over-eating kills people, and obesity is very much on the rise.

And generally speaking, obese people are capable of keeping their job–they don’t get discharged because they were snoring at their desk after a late-night binge.

The people who fall asleep at their desks are few and far between. Most people who go out boozing are sensible enough to do it if they have work the next day, and those who do that on occasion do manage to get through the day without falling asleep. I used to work in a very male-orientated sales business and never knew of anyone who fell asleep at their desk the next day. You just struggled through and got on with the day. And those with the real drink problems are exceptionally good at hiding such things. The notion that people regularly get sacked for falling asleep at work after a night on the town is simply not true.

And you object to the picture of Cardinal Ratzinger drinking beer, do you also object to the reporting of Jesus’s first miracle in the Bible? Ought we to censor that in case the notion of people drinking wine at a wedding feast might put off teetotallers from converting?

 

[PaulDupre1]

By the way this particular priest was delivering his text at a Lenten discussion series outside of mass on a Tuesday night. Doubting my Catholicism because of the use of a word is pretty offensive to me. I sacrificed a lot when I left the LDS Church for Catholicism. You were one of the folks who helped me in my journey so I will forgive you for your rude comment.

It was rude of me. I apologize.

Paul

 

[Brendan_64]

No one should come into the Church because of my words or behavior, but because the Holy Spirit has called them. They can only see that I try, I am not perfect. And if moderate drinking isn’t a sin, potential converts are the ones to form their consciences, not the other way around.

Two good points.

We do not mould our behaviour in order to attract converts. We are what we are, we try to live our lives according to Church teaching, and if Church teaching doesn’t deem moderate drinking to be wrong then it clearly isn’t wrong.

If our acceptance of alcohol is a potential put-off to would-be protestant converts, then so too i suppose is our style of worship. Should we also adopt a more evangelical style of service in order to attract converts?

We should not mould our behaviour towards potential converts in order to attract them. That approach is dishonest and is basing our behaviour on the behaviour of men.

 

[Cat]

Two good points.

We do not mould our behaviour in order to attract converts. We are what we are, we try to live our lives according to Church teaching, and if Church teaching doesn’t deem moderate drinking to be wrong then it clearly isn’t wrong.

If our acceptance of alcohol is a potential put-off to would-be protestant converts, then so too i suppose is our style of worship. Should we also adopt a more evangelical style of service in order to attract converts?

We should not mould our behaviour towards potential converts in order to attract them. That approach is dishonest and is basing our behaviour on the behaviour of men.

That’s not what the Bible says.

St. Paul said, “I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some…”

Jesus said that we are to be light and salt in a dark world.

And someone else already quoted the passage about “stumbling blocks.”

I think the greatest passage is when Jesus said that we should be willing to lay down our lives for our friends.

Brendan, I know that the Catholic Church is not likely to ever change the teaching on alcohol use. I know that Catholics will continue to drink, and that Catholics will continue to get drunk, and go to confession. I know all that.

And what you and other Catholics on this board, including the OP, need to know is that Evangelical Protestants are not likely to change their mind on alcohol use, and they will continue to be distrustful of a Church that not only allows drinking, but offers liquor on church premises.

I have many Evangelical Protestant friends and acquaintances who find the alcohol use a “deal breaker.” They are willing to praise the Catholic Church for the pro-life work, but to them, the drinking is a “sign” that Catholics don’t really know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. If they did know Him, they wouldn’t need to drink liquor.

Disagree? Well, go ahead. All I’m doing is answering the OP’s query.

The talk of “forming a conscience” means nothing to Evangelical Protestants. I had never heard the term until I started attending the Catholic Church. It’s not about “conscience” to Evangelical Protestants, it’s about the Bible, because they know that conscience can play false with people.

And even though you can find Bible passages that seem to indicate that alcohol use is acceptable, you can also find plenty of passages that seem to indicate that alcohol use is NOT acceptable.

So it’s a stalemate.

Thank goodness, God will find a way to work around human weaknesses, both Protestant and Catholic.

 

[christus_vincit]

The talk of “forming a conscience” means nothing to Evangelical Protestants. I had never heard the term until I started attending the Catholic Church. It’s not about “conscience” to Evangelical Protestants, it’s about the Bible, because they know that conscience can play false with people.

If the talk of “forming a conscience” means nothing to them, then they aren’t ready to convert to Catholicism. I’m having an incredibly difficult time understanding your point. A formed conscience dictates that we may, under the correct circumstances, partake of alcohol in responsible moderation. Your entire argument focuses on alcohol ABUSE. We are in agreement that ABUSE is immoral. But there is NOTHING WRONG with drinking in MODERATION.

Potential Evangelical converts to Catholicism must be able to accept the Church’s stance (on all things, not just alcohol) that God’s creation is fundamentally good and that His people are welcome to responsibly enjoy what he has given us.

 

[AbideWithMe]

If the talk of “forming a conscience” means nothing to them, then they aren’t ready to convert to Catholicism. I’m having an incredibly difficult time understanding your point. A formed conscience dictates that we may, under the correct circumstances, partake of alcohol in responsible moderation. Your entire argument focuses on alcohol ABUSE. We are in agreement that ABUSE is immoral. But there is NOTHING WRONG with drinking in MODERATION.

Potential Evangelical converts to Catholicism must be able to accept the Church’s stance (on all things, not just alcohol) that God’s creation is fundamentally good and that His people are welcome to responsibly enjoy what he has given us.

christus_vincit— Do you know how little an amount of wine it takes to cause impairment in a lightweight adult woman?

I agree that very light alcohol use in public (not moderate, since moderate use is enough to impair a driver) in itself is not necessarily sinful. The issue in the OP was the CC’s promotion of alcohol use in these church fairs; it’s one thing to refrain from banning something which is not always sinful, while it’s another thing to actively promote it. To borrow from Paul, what may be permissible isn’t necessarily beneficial.

Before this year, I had personally known (not from all the news stories, but just among people I really knew) 6 people who were killed by drunk drivers, and one young boy who was critically and permanently injured by one. Another one was added this winter. A nurse friend, who loved people and had a great heart to help people, was driving under the influence of alcohol herself and caused the accident which killed her after nearly a month in coma. Another totally innocent driver in the opposite lane was critically and permanently injured. It’s been sheer hell for her surviving family and teenage son.

Shortly before this accident, I was at an art center meeting where two friends, both school teachers, showed up drunk from Happy Hour at a restaurant where they’d met after the school day. Both women are lovely, kind, caring people who would never deliberately cause harm to another person. But they were well past mild impairment and unfit to drive, though drive they did.

The reason I’m telling about the three people above is because I think people believe that there are clear classes of people who drink in public then drive–the responsible, moderate, good drinkers, as opposed to the really bad jerks on the other side. I don’t believe reality is so clear cut, though. Not just from these three recent examples I gave, but from numerous others just in my own limited experience, sometimes otherwise responsible people who never mean to deliberately harm anyone, do indeed drink a little too much and drive while impaired. Sometimes they get away with it; sometimes they kill and injure themselves and other innocent people.

I don’t believe the neat categories of “use” and “abuse” are that applicable to real life situations. I think when it comes to drinking away from home it’s more like a grey continuum between very light use (BAC under .02 [less than one glass of wine for a 120 lb. woman, or one single glass stretched out over a long meal with lots of walking around])>>moderate use and overuse (BAC .03 to .08, where alot of social drinking and driving falls, and where avoiding causing an accident is a matter of getting lucky or not so lucky)>>obvious overuse and and abuse.

It’s one thing to talk and talk about “precautions” (like what, a parish group having to police and babysit church fair goers?—now that sounds like fun) but what exactly are. churches doing to prevent any overuse of the alcohol from which they profit at fairs?

 

[pianistclare]

If the talk of “forming a conscience” means nothing to them, then they aren’t ready to convert to Catholicism. I’m having an incredibly difficult time understanding your point. A formed conscience dictates that we may, under the correct circumstances, partake of alcohol in responsible moderation. Your entire argument focuses on alcohol ABUSE. We are in agreement that ABUSE is immoral. But there is NOTHING WRONG with drinking in MODERATION.

Potential Evangelical converts to Catholicism must be able to accept the Church’s stance (on all things, not just alcohol) that God’s creation is fundamentally good and that His people are welcome to responsibly enjoy what he has given us.

This is exactly what I was thinking. My late husband who had no intention of ever converting, was an alcoholic. The one and only thing he ever said about it was that he (actually) respected that Catholics at least acknowledge the use of alcohol. He claimed that other faiths denounced it entirely, and everyone in their congregations knew that they all got falling down drunk on Saturday night and showed up in their churches on Sunday morning claiming to be saved and better then everyone else. Like just showing up in church on Sunday made everything that happened in the past week fine and dandy. He used to say : “Catholics tolerate sex, drugs, and rock n roll…sex for procreation and love, drugs for healing and a toast now and then, and rock n roll for…well…rock n roll.”
I know people are trying to make a more serious point, but as stated above, alcohol use is a far far cry from alcohol abuse. No one seriously believes that the Catholic Church tolerates abuse of anything. At least if they have even the scantest knowledge of what the Church teaches .

 

[Sarcelle]

It’s that time of year when the festival season at Catholic parishes in my area gets into full swing. Generally, a lot of the neighborhoods wind up unhappy about these festivals which are meant to earn money for the parish, but also bring a lot of drunkedness into the neighborhoods because the festivals tend to sell alcohol as part of their fund-raising. It is a part of Catholic culture which I find disturbing – I don’t know why any church would encourage drinking at such large events. Do Protestants have church events which include alcohol or do they tend to frown on these activities at church?

When I was a member of the Church of Christ, I once attended a church function where watermelon margaritas were part of the beverage selection. So yes, some Protestants do not frown at alcohol consumption.

 

[AbideWithMe]

This is exactly what I was thinking. My late husband who had no intention of ever converting, was an alcoholic. The one and only thing he ever said about it was that he (actually) respected that Catholics at least acknowledge the use of alcohol. He claimed that other faiths denounced it entirely, and everyone in their congregations knew that they all got falling down drunk on Saturday night and showed up in their churches on Sunday morning claiming to be saved and better then everyone else. Like just showing up in church on Sunday made everything that happened in the past week fine and dandy. He used to say : “Catholics tolerate sex, drugs, and rock n roll…sex for procreation and love, drugs for healing and a toast now and then, and rock n roll for…well…rock n roll.”
I know people are trying to make a more serious point, but as stated above, alcohol use is a far far cry from alcohol abuse. No one seriously believes that the Catholic Church tolerates abuse of anything. At least if they have even the scantest knowledge of what the Church teaches .

Regarding the bolded, I completely disagree that reality is that clear cut. I tried to show my reasons briefly in my post. It’s not like someone’s BAC stays at .02 then suddenly jumps to .08. There’s a continuum of effects and impairments.

And, well, regarding the ridiculous blanket statement about Protestants, it’s obvious to me that your late husband wasn’t an expert on Protestants.

 

[Brendan_64]

And what you and other Catholics on this board, including the OP, need to know is that Evangelical Protestants are not likely to change their mind on alcohol use, and they will continue to be distrustful of a Church that not only allows drinking, but offers liquor on church premises.

And what is your point? Are you suggesting that Church teaching should change in order to accommodate mistrusting evangelical protestants? Or are you suggesting that Catholics abstain from alcohol (even though out Church teaches that there is nothing wrong with alcohol) in order to please mistrusting protestants?

I have many Evangelical Protestant friends and acquaintances who find the alcohol use a “deal breaker.” They are willing to praise the Catholic Church for the pro-life work, but to them, the drinking is a “sign” that Catholics don’t really know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. If they did know Him, they wouldn’t need to drink liquor.

Our Lord drank alcohol. He didn’t turn the water into orange juice, and at the last Supper he didn’t hold up a cup of non-alcoholic grape juice. Knowing Jesus as Lord and Saviour has got nothing to do with not being able to enjoy a pint of beer, nothing at all.

The talk of “forming a conscience” means nothing to Evangelical Protestants. I had never heard the term until I started attending the Catholic Church. It’s not about “conscience” to Evangelical Protestants, it’s about the Bible, because they know that conscience can play false with people.

Christ didn’t come to write a book, Christ came to form a Church. St Paul didn’t go about handing out Bibles. And conscience can only play false if it is not formed in accordance with Church teaching. The teachings of the Church are our road map to ensure our conscience is reliable. Christ formed a Church, He didn’t write a book.

even though you can find Bible passages that seem to indicate that alcohol use is acceptable, you can also find plenty of passages that seem to indicate that alcohol use is NOT acceptable. So it’s a stalemate

No its not stalemate, not in the Gospels. The fact that Jesus DID drink alcohol is absolutely indisputable. And I think the drinking of wine at the Last Supper trumps anything else written about alcohol in the Bible.

And regardless, as Catholics it is our Magisterium that interprets scripture, and we, as Catholics are bound to adhere to all teachings arising from the Magisterium’s interpretation. That is the way the Church operates.

Of course evangelical protestants operate differently, but any convert needs to accept the Church’s way, and that will not be compromised in order to appeal to those outside. We can explain why the Church does things the way she does, and why the Church teaches what she teaches, but we can never compromise or pretend to be other than we are.

 

[christus_vincit]

christus_vincit— Do you know how little an amount of wine it takes to cause impairment in a lightweight adult woman?

I agree that very light alcohol use in public (not moderate, since moderate use is enough to impair a driver) in itself is not necessarily sinful. The issue in the OP was the CC’s promotion of alcohol use in these church fairs; it’s one thing to refrain from banning something which is not always sinful, while it’s another thing to actively promote it. To borrow from Paul, what may be permissible isn’t necessarily beneficial.

Before this year, I had personally known (not from all the news stories, but just among people I really knew) 6 people who were killed by drunk drivers, and one young boy who was critically and permanently injured by one. Another one was added this winter. A nurse friend, who loved people and had a great heart to help people, was driving under the influence of alcohol herself and caused the accident which killed her after nearly a month in coma. Another totally innocent driver in the opposite lane was critically and permanently injured. It’s been sheer hell for her surviving family and teenage son.

Shortly before this accident, I was at an art center meeting where two friends, both school teachers, showed up drunk from Happy Hour at a restaurant where they’d met after the school day. Both women are lovely, kind, caring people who would never deliberately cause harm to another person. But they were well past mild impairment and unfit to drive, though drive they did.

The reason I’m telling about the three people above is because I think people believe that there are clear classes of people who drink in public then drive–the responsible, moderate, good drinkers, as opposed to the really bad jerks on the other side. I don’t believe reality is so clear cut, though. Not just from these three recent examples I gave, but from numerous others just in my own limited experience, sometimes otherwise responsible people who never mean to deliberately harm anyone, do indeed drink a little too much and drive while impaired. Sometimes they get away with it; sometimes they kill and injure themselves and other innocent people.

I don’t believe the neat categories of “use” and “abuse” are that applicable to real life situations. I think when it comes to drinking away from home it’s more like a grey continuum between very light use (BAC under .02 [less than one glass of wine for a 120 lb. woman, or one single glass stretched out over a long meal with lots of walking around])>>moderate use and overuse (BAC .03 to .08, where alot of social drinking and driving falls, and where avoiding causing an accident is a matter of getting lucky or not so lucky)>>obvious overuse and and abuse.

It’s one thing to talk and talk about “precautions” (like what, a parish group having to police and babysit church fair goers?—now that sounds like fun) but what exactly are. churches doing to prevent any overuse of the alcohol from which they profit at fairs?

But how does any of this make a case against responsible and moderate alcohol use? These are, yet again, examples of alcohol abuse (drinking and driving even after a small amount of alcohol is irresponsible in my opinion and therefore qualifies as abuse). I’ve already noted how it is indeed possible to monitor alcohol consumption at parish events. For example, at my parish festival the drinking is relegated to a single area, those who imbibe are closely monitored and are held to a limit on how much they drink. There aren’t any problems. When people drink responsibly bad things don’t happen.