Protestants and Mary

[Dokimas]

That which you (Dokimas) hold to be the truth must be the truth to you.Yet in this post you declare that which you believe may be false.To me this sounds of a man with two faceswhich is not a good thing according to scripture.
With this kind of self knowledge wouldn’t be better to acctually know the truth…
You see when one knows the truth they know the answers they give are correct.

1Corintians 8:2 And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know.​

I know what I believe but I’m not foolish enough to think I am always correct. I think it’s very dangerous for anyone to think anyone but God has all the correct answers.​

1Co 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.​

It’s not going to be until Heaven that we’ll know 100% of what is Truth.

 

[Des]

Because i do feel that God built one church and not 25 thousand churches.

Lets be honest here. You are NOT Catholic in your heart. You deny certain Infallible proclamations declared by the councils and if EVERY Catholic thought as you do,this unity that you admire so much, would be gone. I know one ‘Catholic’ who believes homosexual marriages are fine in God’s eyes. I know another who feels condoms are ok. Wonderful isn’t it. You either accept the infallibility of the Church or deny it. You can’t pick and choose yet call yourself Catholic. I think if there is one thing on this forum that irks me more than anything are when posters label themselves Catholics when they argue Dogma with other Catholics. There aren’t many of you guys but you’re very noticeable. I won’t even debate you on this because there’s nothing to debate.

 

[Good_Fella]

Chist’s humanity has nothing to do with the imaaculate conception. Such a fact is irrelevant and immaterial to His hypostatic union.

Christ’s humanity is sacred in its union with the divine nature by the substantial grace of union with the Father. Mary was preserved free from the stain of original sin so that she would be the worthy mother of our Lord. If Jesus were only a human being like Abraham and Moses, then God would not have done this great thing for Mary. Her singular and highly favored form of redemption is an unmerited gift of the Holy Spirit in the Hypostatic Order. Mary was created sinless because of her divine maternity. She was predestined to be the mother of a divine Person. All her priviliges and prerogatives granted by God rest on this principal favor.

“My spirit rejoices in God my saviour.
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness.”
Luke 1, 47-48

“He was the ark formed of incorruptible wood. For by this is signified that His tabernacle was exempt from putridity and corruption.”
Hippolytus (ante. A.D. 235)

PAX

 

[elvisman]

You’re quite a judge. Romans 2:1ff, 14:1ff​

Notice that Ro 14 starts by speaking of weaker members. If you’re correct in what you believe is true, you sure don’t know how to deal with us weaker members.

My belonging to the historic Christian Church established by Christ makes me judgemental?
That’s a new one. HOW do you some to this conclusion.
I simply stated a fact when I said that your church - and ALL other Protestant sects were created - NOT by Jesus - but by prideful, rebellious men who thought they could do a better job than Jesus.

Lastly - you’re not a weaker member. You’re not even a member.
You’re a separated brother because you have rejected Christ’s Church (Luke 10:16).

 

[Good_Fella]

My belonging to the historic Christian Church established by Christ makes me judgemental?
That’s a new one. HOW do you some to this conclusion.
I simply stated a fact when I said that your church - and ALL other Protestant sects were created - NOT by Jesus - but by prideful, rebellious men who thought they could do a better job than Jesus.

Lastly - you’re not a weaker member. You’re not even a member.
You’re a separated brother because you have rejected Christ’s Church (Luke 10:16).

:crutches:

 

[rchapm77]

quote = onenow1. Indeed ! Now we must find the church of believers, following truth.

How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ, and then tell the Baptists it is only a symbol?

How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and then tell the Baptists it is unbiblical?

How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh-Day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship, and then tell the Presbyterians the day of worship is Sunday and not Saturday?

How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains always virgin, and then tell the Baptists she had other children?

How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists, “once saved always saved”, and then tell the Church of Christ that Sola Fides is unscriptural?

How can the Holy Spirit tell Episcopalians to baptize infants and then tell Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid?

Could it be one of these above ?

Peace,and God Bless
onenow1

In the book of Romans St Paul is writing to one church, yet he has to instruct them not to be divided over doctrinal differences, in chap 14 of Romans St Paul tells the church to not pass judgment on each other because some of them did not consider all foods clean, and some did, some considered one day more holy than another some considered every day alike.

Romans 14: 2 -3 One mans faith allows him to eat everything, but another man whose faith is weak eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.

14: 5-6 One man considers one day more sacred than another, anotherr man consider every day alike…He who regards one day as special does so to the Lord.

The answer is all the above are striving to follow the truth, even in St Pauls time there was disagreement on disputable matters but still only one church.

 

[rchapm77]

In the book of Romans St Paul is writing to one church, yet he has to instruct them not to be divided over doctrinal differences, in chap 14 of Romans St Paul tells the church to not pass judgment on each other because some of them did not consider all foods clean, and some did, some considered one day more holy than another some considered every day alike.

Romans 14: 2 -3 One mans faith allows him to eat everything, but another man whose faith is weak eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him.

14: 5-6 One man considers one day more sacred than another, anotherr man consider every day alike…He who regards one day as special does so to the Lord.

The answer is all the above are striving to follow the truth, even in St Pauls time there was disagreement on disputable matters but still only one church.

Also in Romans when St Paul instructs the church to be unified despite differances on disputable matters, he does not say be unified only if you agree with your brothers on everything. We are to accept each other and not pass judgment inspite of differances not only in the absence of differances.

 

[elvisman]

Also in Romans when St Paul instructs the church to be unified despite differances on disputable matters, he does not say be unified only if you agree with your brothers on everything. We are to accept each other and not pass judgment inspite of differances not only in the absence of differances.

An we in the Catholic Church can have our own opinions about certain things.
What Paul does NOT advocate is factions and splintering due to these differences of opinion. He believed that factions were useful only to weed out the bad and make known the true believers (1 Cor. 11:17-19).

The fruits of Protestantism are tens of thousands of constantly splintering sects.

 

[Dokimas]

My belonging to the historic Christian Church established by Christ makes me judgemental?
That’s a new one. HOW do you some to this conclusion.
I simply stated a fact when I said that your church - and ALL other Protestant sects were created - NOT by Jesus - but by prideful, rebellious men who thought they could do a better job than Jesus.

Lastly - you’re not a weaker member. You’re not even a member.
You’re a separated brother because you have rejected Christ’s Church (Luke 10:16).

You must be short like I am — it went right over your head. You’re judgement because you’re judgemental not because of the church you go to, silly person. There are many Catholics posting here that aren’t judgmental; you’re not one of them.​

BTW, if I’m a brother in Christ I’m a member.

 

[Dokimas]

An we in the Catholic Church can have our own opinions about certain things.
What Paul does NOT advocate is factions and splintering due to these differences of opinion. He believed that factions were useful only to weed out the bad and make known the true believers (1 Cor. 11:17-19).

The fruits of Protestantism are tens of thousands of constantly splintering sects.

On the contrary, friend. You do have your own opinion and that opinion is that your church is the only true church; that it is the only church that has all the correct answers.​

 

[lil_flower_luv]

On the contrary, friend. You do have your own opinion and that opinion is that your church is the only true church; that it is the only church that has all the correct answers.​

Well it has been proven. I mean, Jesus Himself founded it, did He not?

 

[elvisman]

On the contrary, friend. You do have your own opinion and that opinion is that your church is the only true church; that it is the only church that has all the correct answers.​

And that’s where you’re wrong - among many other places.

We have liberty to have a difference of opinion in customs and minor traditions. Where we must comply is with doctrine and dogma. This is because Jesus guaranteed the Church infallibility and authority in these matters (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15).

You bear false witness when you make those kinds of attacks, my angry friend.

 

[elvisman]

You must be short like I am — it went right over your head. You’re judgement because you’re judgemental not because of the church you go to, silly person. There are many Catholics posting here that aren’t judgmental; you’re not one of them.​

BTW, if I’m a brother in Christ I’m a member.

Wrong.
You’re a separated brother because you have chosen to remain divorced from His family.

As for being judgemental - I am called upon to judge rightly (Luke 7:42-43, Luke 12:57, John 7:24, 1 Corinthians 10:15). I was told by my Savior that I would know those who preach a different Gospel their fruits (Matt. 7:15-16).

It’s funny how many Protestants will commend the Bereans for judging what Paul said in light of Scripture - BUT when it comes to Catholics holding Protestants to that same standard, well, that’s just being “judgmental”.

 

[Dokimas]

Wrong.
You’re a separated brother because you have chosen to remain divorced from His family.

As for being judgemental - I am called upon to judge rightly (Luke 7:42-43, Luke 12:57, John 7:24, 1 Corinthians 10:15). I was told by my Savior that I would know those who preach a different Gospel their fruits (Matt. 7:15-16).

It’s funny how many Protestants will commend the Bereans for judging what Paul said in light of Scripture - BUT when it comes to Catholics holding Protestants to that same standard, well, that’s just being “judgmental”.

Still over your head: it’s not the telling that makes you judgmental, it’s the how. There is no doubt that you look down at non-catholic Christians.

 

[Dokimas]

And that’s where you’re wrong - among many other places.

We have liberty to have a difference of opinion in customs and minor traditions. Where we must comply is with doctrine and dogma. This is because Jesus guaranteed the Church infallibility and authority in these matters (Matt. 16:15-19, 18:15-18, John 16:12-15).

You bear false witness when you make those kinds of attacks, my angry friend.

Are you saying that if I’m not angry then you are bearing false witness? I’m not angry nor upset. I am not catholic nor ever have been. I have no reason to be angry. I am sad that you believe something that seems, from Scripture, to be quite wrong.

 

[Dokimas]

Well it has been proven. I mean, Jesus Himself founded it, did He not?

Jesus seems to have founded HIS church. I doubt it’s the RCC in contrast to other Christian churches.

 

[humble_maid]

Paul started the church he was speaking to Timothy about.​

If you read me more carefully you’d see I believe the Body of Christ is the church, just not your church. It is universal and made up of ALL true believers in the Messiah Jesus of Nazareth.

God’s Blessings,

Please excuse me again but St. Paul did not start the church. He in fact was persecuting it after the pentecost which is the day it really started. Acts 9:1.
Furthermore, Jesus established a visible church as well as the invisible(which is His body–found in the Eucharist)Jn 6:53-59=54 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. *Except you eat and drink, etc… To receive the body and blood of Christ, is a divine precept, insinuated in this text; which the faithful fulfil, though they receive but in one kind; because in one kind they receive both body and blood, which cannot be separated from each other. Hence, life eternal is here promised to the worthy receiving, though but in one kind. Ver. 52. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever; and the bread that I will give, is my flesh for the life of the world. Ver. 58. He that eateth me, the same also shall live by me. Ver. 59. He that eateth this bread, shall liver for ever. 55 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. *

As for the visible church St. Peter was given the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven — an expression signifying the gift of plenary authority (Isaiah 22:22). The promise thus made was fulfilled after the Resurrection, on the occasion narrated in John 21.

Eversince St. Peter the CC has a unbroken line of Popes. newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm Therefore the Catholic (which means universal) Church has the keys of St.Peter to which she has plenary authority. All the protestants, though they profess to know and love Christ have divorced themselves from this visible church. They have dismembered the church of Christ, dividing her, and dispersing the flock which was entrusted to St. Peter. Division is not the work of God’s true shepherds but creating a UNITY in ONE TRUE CHURCH.

St. Paul likewise insists on the unity of the Church.

•Schism and disunion he brands as crimes to be classed with murder and debauchery, and declares that those guilty of “dissensions” and “sects” shall not obtain the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:20-21).
•Hearing of the schisms among the Corinthians, he asked impatiently: “Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? or were you baptized in the name of Paul?” (1 Corinthians 1:13).
•And in the same Epistle he describes the Church as one body with many members distinct among themselves, but one with Christ their head: “For in one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free” (1 Corinthians 12:13).

 

[humble_maid]

Are you saying that if I’m not angry then you are bearing false witness? I’m not angry nor upset. I am not catholic nor ever have been. I have no reason to be angry. I am sad that you believe something that seems, from Scripture, to be quite wrong./QUOTE]

Dokimas, may I ask who gave you authority to deem us Catholics(universal) of the true and everlasting church of Christ, as wrong?

This thread has obviously deviated from its original discourse; to understand how Mary is viewed by the protestants. There were many convincing arguments that prove the veneration of Mary is HOLY and acceptable unto God; though you would still object. I guess now the only thing for you to do is to denigrate our Church.

 

[Dokimas]

Dokimas: Are you saying that if I’m not angry then you are bearing false witness? I’m not angry nor upset. I am not catholic nor ever have been. I have no reason to be angry. I am sad that you believe something that seems, from Scripture, to be quite wrong./

Dokimas, may I ask who gave you authority to deem us Catholics(universal) of the true and everlasting church of Christ, as wrong?

This thread has obviously deviated from its original discourse; to understand how Mary is viewed by the protestants. There were many convincing arguments that prove the veneration of Mary is HOLY and acceptable unto God; though you would still object. I guess now the only thing for you to do is to denigrate our Church.

When I say your church is wrong on some issues I’m denigrating your church and when you say my understanding is quit wrong, are you denigrating me? I assure you, while your intent, according to your logic, may be to denigrate me, I don’t feel at all denigrated. The burden of Truth is on God’s shoulders, not mine, yours or your church’s.

 

[elvisman]

Still over your head: it’s not the telling that makes you judgmental, it’s the how. There is no doubt that you look down at non-catholic Christians.

Wrong again. I don’t look down on anybody.
I PRAY for your conversion to Christ’s Church.