Protestants and Mary

[Dokimas]

You keep making these same claims. The New Testament Church was Catholic.
The Catholic Church is more than just Roman Catholic, you are marginalizing all the Eastern Rites.
Pope comes from Greek. It simply means “Father.” Who used the term first is irrelevant. What is relevant is the primacy of St. Peter among the Apostles.
The Catholic liturgy contains more Scriptures than a dozen non-denominational services so can the snarky comments. And besides, what is more uncharitable than making unsubstantiated clims?

I make the same claims that are only negated by your church making claims about itself.​

So are you saying there are different sects of the Catholic Church? Thought only the Protestants were divided.​

Of course it is relevant when the term ‘pope’ first was used. If Peter didn’t use it of himself, or if those around him didn’t use it, then he wasn’t a pope at all.​

Looking at the NT, Peter wasn’t primary among the apostles.

 

[Dokimas]

There wasn’t a universal Church?
As for the Roman" Catholic Church - you can thank on of your Protestant heroes for that name because it certainly isn’t an official title of the Catholic Church which has many rites.
You see - after Henry VIII split with the Church and basically outlawed the Catholic church in England - adding "Roman" to the title of the Church was a way to differentiate whether or not you belonged to the Catholic Church based in Rome or what he considered the “Catholic Church” based in England. A rudimentery study of history will give you the answers . . .

How do you come to that conclusion?

Again - Pope is a term of eandearment. Peter was the first Pope.

**You **keep issuing challenges and I keep answering them. Prove me wrong about what I’m telling you - or stop issuing challenges and do your *own *homework.

I’m being kind and loving by rebuking you and Radical about speaking falsely of the Church. I would be sinning if I didn’t.

For a person who thinks you are in the know you make mistakes often – I don’t have any Protestant heros. It would seem you may have the problem of hero worship.​

Are you saying that Peter was** the first to be known by the title of pope**? That’s how you answered my direct question.​

I can assure you love and kindness doesn’t shine through. Lil is kind and loving.​

Speaking of homework, maybe you could find for yourself where I found that Linus was believed to be ordained by Paul.

 

[Dokimas]

I have no agenda to push. I’m only defending the one Church established by Jesus. Let me ask you something:
Why are you – a Protestant – here on a Catholic forum? To push your agenda?

Elvis, don’t look now but the Forum Radical is posting on is called ‘Non-Catholic Religions’

 

[elvisman]

what I would expect is that you admit that you “don’t know”, or that you take the time to educate yourself or that you say that “this is what someone else had to say” or that it appears that such and such is the case…You, however, present yourself as an authority (declaring what is the case), but in reality you do not appear to have the knowledge of history upon which to formulate or make such declarations. As such, I have come to the conclusion that I can’t learn anything from you and, given your conduct, I am quite sure that I can’t help you understand anything either.

Cheers.

I’m not the Authority - the Church is (Matt. 16:15-18, 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:1 Tim. 3:15).

I only present what the Church teaches and defend her when those who would twist the Scriptures to their own destruction (2 Pet. 3:16) seek to attack her with no foundation.

 

[elvisman]

For a person who thinks you are in the know you make mistakes often – I don’t have any Protestant heros. It would seem you may have the problem of hero worship.

If I’ve made mistakes - it’s only your opinion because I reject your position.
Please be more specific and point out one of my mistakes.

Are you saying that Peter was** the first to be known by the title of pope**? That’s how you answered my direct question.

What I’m saying is that it doesn’t matter who was first called “Pope”, which is simply a term of endearment (as I’ve already said, ad nauseam). What matters is the Office.
I’m not sure that all of the official titles that exist today have existed throughout history - and that doesn’t matter, either. Titles develop over time.

-I can assure you love and kindness doesn’t shine through. Lil is kind and loving.

Call it tough love.
What I’m not, is tolerant of people who spread lies about Christ’s Church.

-Speaking of homework, maybe you could find for yourself where I found that Linus was believed to be ordained by Paul.

I’m not sure why you’re obsessed with who ordained Linus. It doesn’t matter who ordained him as Bishop - he successed Peter as leader of the Church.
It is said that Peter ordained Clement, who succeeded Cletus (Anacletus) as Bishop of Rome.

 

[Follow_Yeshua]

Who ordained “Innocent?” Because if I were his predecessor, I would of had him change his name.

 

[elvisman]

Who ordained “Innocent?” Because if I were his predecessor, I would of had him change his name.

Probably the same guy who called those who rebelled against Christ’s Church in the 15th and 16th centuries, “Reformers” . . .

 

[Dokimas]

**I’m not **sure why you’re obsessed with who ordained Linus. It doesn’t matter who ordained him as Bishop - he successed Peter as leader of the Church.
It is said that Peter ordained Clement, who succeeded Cletus (Anacletus) as Bishop of Rome.

Peter must have stepped down as pope if Linus, then Cletus, then Clement (ordained by Peter)
all were popes while Peter was alive. Maybe there were multiple popes at one time?

 

[elvisman]

Peter must have stepped down as pope if Linus, then Cletus, then Clement (ordained by Peter)
all were popes while Peter was alive. Maybe there were multiple popes at one time?

How do you figure? Peter is said to have died around 67-68 A.D. in Rome.
Where do you get your info?

The chronological list is as follows:
**St. Peter (32-67) **
**St. Linus (67-76) **
**St. Anacletus (Cletus) (76-88) **
St. Clement I (88-97)

By the way - this is way off topic. the thread is about Protestants and Mary . . .

 

[Follow_Yeshua]

**Probably the same **guy who called those who rebelled against Christ’s Church in the 15th and 16th centuries, “Reformers” . . .

What is this Star Wars? Just Kidding. I keep thinking of Darth Vader “I find you lack of faith disturbing…” You use the word rebelled like the Church has a grasp on every man’s actions and thoughts. Perhaps they just left?

Don’t worry Elvisman very soon the RCC will be the World’s religion united by Mary to usher in an era of peace. I’m not making fun either. You guys will win.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Don’t worry Elvisman very soon the RCC will be the World’s religion united by Mary to usher in an era of peace. I’m not making fun either. You guys will win.

How kind of you! This is a thing I know already, but it is so nice to be reminded.

*God Bless you! *
And God Bless you as well, Radical. I was relieved to see no rude comments pertaining to my post. You have shown me you truly are a follower of Christ through the way you have acted towards me. May Mary intercede on your behalf for God’s greater glory. Amen.

Blessings,
Therese

 

[elvisman]

What is this Star Wars? Just Kidding. I keep thinking of Darth Vader “I find you lack of faith disturbing…” You use the word rebelled like the Church has a grasp on every man’s actions and thoughts. Perhaps they just left?

Don’t worry Elvisman very soon the RCC will be the World’s religion united by Mary to usher in an era of peace. I’m not making fun either. You guys will win.

**They didn’t just leave - they created new entities, edited the Bible and changed doctrine - which even they couldn’t agree upon.
That’s why you have the tens of thousands of constantly slintering, bickering denominations you have today. It’s not so much that we win - YOU lose.
**This is the legacy of that original ecclesiatical divorce - more and more divorce and perpetual splintering . . .

PS - if you hate the Catholic Church so much and feel that we are antichrist - why are you here on a Catholic forum?

 

[elvisman]

I have no agenda to push. I’m only defending the one Church established by Jesus. Let me ask you something:
Why are you – a Protestant – here on a Catholic forum? To push your agenda?

Elvis, don’t look now but the Forum Radical is posting on is called ‘Non-Catholic Religions’

On a CATHOLIC forum . . .

 

[Dokimas]

On a CATHOLIC forum . . .

… obviously welcomed by those that run the forum.

 

[elvisman]

… obviously welcomed by those that run the forum.

I was unaware that invitations had been sent out.
**Anyway - Back to Mary . . .

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

How kind of you! This is a thing I know already, but it is so nice to be reminded.

*God Bless you! *
And God Bless you as well, Radical. I was relieved to see no rude comments pertaining to my post. You have shown me you truly are a follower of Christ through the way you have acted towards me. May Mary intercede on your behalf for God’s greater glory. Amen.

Blessings,
Therese

Unless you are being sarcastic and I just don’t see it; I don’t believe Follow Yeshua meant what he said as a compliment. Talk of a one world religion and an era of peace sounds along the lines of rapturists beliefs about the end time where they believe the Catholic Church will play a prominent role in ushering in the Anti-Christ and the end-times… Or something along those delusional lines.

Of course FY is completely right in his assessment that the Church will ultimately win because we know how it ends; Christ wins.

God bless you

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Unless you are being sarcastic and I just don’t see it; I don’t believe Follow Yeshua meant what he said as a compliment. Talk of a one world religion and an era of peace sounds along the lines of rapturists beliefs about the end time where they believe the Catholic Church will play a prominent role in ushering in the Anti-Christ and the end-times… Or something along those delusional lines.

Of course FY is completely right in his assessment that the Church will ultimately win because we know how it ends; Christ wins.

God bless you

I think there is a very small number of us who take CAF seriously. I meant what I said because I believe it to be true (as do you). But for those who do not take this forum seriously, their being here must mean that God is working in their lives/stirring in their hearts, or planning to. Whether or not FY meant his/her comment as a compliment, I will pray for only the best in his/her life. Thanks for your concern and God Bless!

 

[Dokimas]

I was unaware that invitations had been sent out.
**Anyway - *Back ***to Mary . . .

Who said anything about invited?​

I found this forum, applied for membership, didn’t lie about who I was, and was welcomed.​

Do you have a problem with that?

 

[Michael007]

“My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”

---

I’ve heard a Catholic priest on TV give another account of this. The original poster made this sound disrespectful to Mary. And mentioned that Jesus called her ‘woman’ a few times. I’ve even seen a version of a movie about Jesus which had this scene protraying Jesus being disrespectful to her and upsetting her.

But the other way to take this verse is that she obeyed God’s call to bear Jesus in her womb. She heard the world of God and did it.

 

[Michael007]

Geek(something) wrote:

How many brothers and sisters does Jesus have? James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas are recorded as being his “brothers” in Mt 12:46-50, Mt 13:55, Mk 6:3, Mt 12 and Lk 8:19-21. Look up “adelphos.”

---

Mk 15:40 has a third Mary being the mother of two of these “brothers”. She seems to be the forgotten Mary in the Bible. Your logic falls apart with true study of scripture.

Some important points.

No where in the Bible does it state that everything has to come from the Bible. Jesus even warns us against memorizing particular verses. Because verse can be taken out of context if not compared with other verses. The Bible says we are to not contradict what is in it. That is different than creating a belief that states everything has to come from the Bible. Also, the Bible was not completed in full form for a few centuries after the death of Christ. The followers till that date could not have followed something before its existence. Especially the ones alive before Paul even became a Christian.

Jesus didn’t speek Greek. Adelphos is a Greek word. The Ariamic word and its use in the time period included cousins and other relatives. Word usage changes in time. Words we use in our own language have changed over time. When reading the Bible you can’t go by the Greek meaning and over ride what it meant at the time in the spoken language.

Point three. I’m tired and going to bed!