Protestants and Mary

[Bengoshi]

There is absolutely no room for disagreement. Mary’s immaculate conception and her personal sinlessness are infallible teachings of the Sacred Magisterium of the Church belonging to the deposit of faith: Scripture and Tradition. A professed Christian who rejects these dogmas commits a formal act of heresy. The question of whether someone may be held inculpable because of invincible ignorance does arise in the mean time.

Pax Christu :harp:

There is a good book on this topic entitled CONVICTION WITHOUT COMPROMISE by Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes.

“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity.” A Catholic Pope in an encyclical (I can’t remember the title right now, but I’ll look for it) said the same thing using different words and I was even amazed when I read that.

 

[AwGusTeen]

1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,​

Ro 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Ro 8:27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Ro 8:34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
Heb 7:25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.​

Question: Is there something lacking in the ability of Jesus to intercede for us that you feel the need to pray to someone that has left their mortal body behind (Mary for one)?

Question: Do you ever ask anyone to pray for you?

 

[Good_Fella]

“Full of grace” can mean a lot of different things.

Being full of grace doesn’t mean that one among others has been favoured by God to do something for him.

Assuming arguendo that Mary was indeed “full of grace” as the RCC puts it, the better explanation would be that God filled Mary with grace at the time Jesus inhabited her womb, or at the time of her conception of Jesus and not when Mary was herself was conceived by her mother Anne.

Mary was hailed “full of grace” when the angel Gabriel greeted her (Lk 1:28) before she consented to conceive and bear Jesus (Lk 1:38). She had already “found favour with God” by the time the angel appeared to her (Lk 1:30). You’re engaging in wishful thinking.

This view is more in harmony with Scripture that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom. 3:23). I mean, having God the Son inside her body may definitely cleanse her from sin, but not before Jesus inhabited her body.

This verse simply means that all human beings are subject to original sin. Mary was implicated as well, but God preserved her from contracting this stain by her immaculate conception. Her soul was infused with sanctifying grace the moment God formed it. Like the ark of the Covenant, Mary was covered with the purest gold. The Greek word for “all” is* pantes *, so there can be an exception to the rule, which would include also Christ.

By the way, I don’t think it would really matter whether or not Mary was sinless or was a perpetual virgin. Such things shall in no way affect our salvation in Christ nor alter our Christology.

Well, one would have to seriously question whether Christ’s humanity was sacred.

PAX :heaven:

 

[AwGusTeen]

What does her soul magnifying God have to do with her being a co-mediatrix? In fact, all of our souls should magnify the Lord! All protestants agree that Mary is blessed! A woman who carried God the Son Himself is definitely blessed! We don’t argue against that, especially that Scripture itself says that Mary shall be called blessed by all generations. However, this does not prove any of your points either. Protestants love Mary! Let us make that clear.

Oh really – Then why is she seldom mentioned (if ever) in Protestant sermons? Why is she mostly treated as a mere vessel rather than the Mother of God? This doesn’t sound like love to me.

 

[AwGusTeen]

There is a good book on this topic entitled CONVICTION WITHOUT COMPROMISE by Norman Geisler and Ron Rhodes.

“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity.” A Catholic Pope in an encyclical (I can’t remember the title right now, but I’ll look for it) said the same thing using different words and I was even amazed when I read that.

Please don’t quote someone if you cannot provide the citation/source. Find the source and THEN provide it before using it to reinforce some point. That is suspect behavior.

 

[2nd_Adam]

“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, diversity; in all things, charity.”

I don’t think Augustine actually said this. I heard it came from an obscue Lutheran Priest.

 

[rchapm77]

Oh really – Then why is she seldom mentioned (if ever) in Protestant sermons? Why is she mostly treated as a mere vessel rather than the Mother of God? This doesn’t sound like love to me.

Mary is mentioned in protestant sermons, especially around advent season and easter, and whenever the pastor studies the sections of scripture concerning her in the gospels. The song of Mary (the magnificat) is precious to protestants, as is the nativity storie. She is admired and greatly respected by protestants for her great faith, submissiveness to God,her love and faithfulnessto God. Christ exsited before He was concieved in Mary’s womb, “Before Adam was I Am.” Christ says. Mary’s motherhood of Jesus is differant than that of all other mothers because Christ was preexistent long before Mary exsited. Perhaps our focus on the preexistence of Jesus is why it seems to catholics that we treat her more as vessel than 'the Mother of God.

 

[CWBetts]

Mary is mentioned in protestant sermons, especially around advent season and easter, and whenever the pastor studies the sections of scripture concerning her in the gospels. The song of Mary (the magnificat) is precious to protestants, as is the nativity storie. She is admired and greatly respected by protestants for her great faith, submissiveness to God,her love and faithfulnessto God. Christ exsited before He was concieved in Mary’s womb, “Before Adam was I Am.” Christ says. Mary’s motherhood of Jesus is differant than that of all other mothers because Christ was preexistent long before Mary exsited. Perhaps our focus on the preexistence of Jesus is why it seems to catholics that we treat her more as vessel than 'the Mother of God.

Maybe in your protestant community, but not in any I was associated with. Mary is relevent at Christmastime, and then ignored.

 

[lil_flower_luv]

Why? Is it because the readers might find out the truth?

If people need to hear the Truth, they have come to the right place: Catholic Answers Forum.

God Bless

 

[rchapm77]

Mary is mentioned in protestant sermons, especially around advent season and easter, and whenever the pastor studies the sections of scripture concerning her in the gospels. The song of Mary (the magnificat) is precious to protestants, as is the nativity storie. She is admired and greatly respected by protestants for her great faith, submissiveness to God,her love and faithfulnessto God. Christ exsited before He was concieved in Mary’s womb, “Before Adam was I Am.” Christ says. Mary’s motherhood of Jesus is differant than that of all other mothers because Christ was preexistent long before Mary exsited. Perhaps our focus on the preexistence of Jesus is why it seems to catholics that we treat her more as vessel than 'the Mother of God.

Sorry, I meant Abraham not Adam. John 8:58 "I tell you the truth,"Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

 

[Dokimas]

The deposit of faith has always consisted of both Scripture and Tradition since apostolic time. Nevertheless, the Immaculate Conception of Mary is implicitly affirmed by the Scriptures. The typification of Mary as the ark of the Covenant is one such affirmation that she was sinless, reflecting the traditional belief of the Church that had existed by the time St. Luke penned his gospel. Your understanding of the written word is deficient because you read the Scriptures in a purely literal sense. Everything must be explicitly revealed to you. But it is the Church’s role to make explicit what lies implicitly in the written word by interpreting the Scriptures in light of Apostolic Tradition from whence the Scriptures proceed.

Pax Christu :harp:

Thank you for your opinion. I sincerely disagree.

 

[Dokimas]

Luke 1:46-49

46 And Mary said:
My soul doth magnify the Lord.
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth** all generations shall call me blessed**. *Shall call me blessed… These words are a prediction of that honour which the church in all ages should pay to the Blessed Virgin. Let Protestants examine whether they are any way concerned in this prophecy.*49 Because he that is mighty hath done great things to me: and holy is his name.

These are wonderful quotes from Mary but they don’t seem to say what you think they are saying. I call her blessed but I don’t think she’s the mother of anyone but baby Jesus. She is not the mother of God; she bore the human body Jesus used.

 

[CWBetts]

These are wonderful quotes from Mary but they don’t seem to say what you think they are saying. I call her blessed but I don’t think she’s the mother of anyone but baby Jesus. She is not the mother of God; she bore the human body Jesus used.

This is a very old heresy. Jesus is fully God and fully man. Mary did not just give birth to his human nature, but gave birth to him. What is so hard to understand about that. Its pretty simple actually, especially given that Mary is called the Mother of God in Scripture.

 

[Kakieanne]

It is true that Mary was the vessel that God used to give our Lord Jesus a human body. But it is also true that Jesus could not die for our sins without that human body. And with a broken heart she stood by Him at the foot of the cross. We owe her our love, reverance and gratitude. To me, she is much more than a saint, she is the Mother of the Son of God and the Queen Mother of Heaven and earth.

Blessings, Kathy

 

[Good_Fella]

These are wonderful quotes from Mary but they don’t seem to say what you think they are saying. I call her blessed but I don’t think she’s the mother of anyone but baby Jesus. She is not the mother of God; she bore the human body Jesus used.

“And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”
Luke 1, 43

kai pothen moi touto ina elthe e meter tou kurio mou pros eme."
Luke 1, 43

“Blessed are you who believed that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
Luke 1, 45

kai makaria e pisteusasa oti estai teleiosis tois lelalemenois aute para kurio.
Luke 1, 45

Mary is the mother of our Lord God kurio]!

“Therefore, because the holy virgin bore in the flesh God who was united hypostatically with the flesh, for that reason we call her mother of God, not as though the nature of the Word had the beginning of its existence from the flesh (for “the Word was in the beginning and the Word was God and the Word was with God”, and he made the ages and is co-eternal with the Father and craftsman of all things), but because, as we have said, he united to himself hypostatically the human and underwent a birth according to the flesh from her womb…If anyone does not confess that Emmanuel is God in truth, and therefore that the holy virgin is the mother of God (for she bore in a fleshly way the Word of God become flesh), let him be anathema.”
*The Council of Ephesus (A.D. 431) *

PAX :heaven:

 

[Dokimas]

This is a very old heresy. Jesus is fully God and fully man. Mary did not just give birth to his human nature, but gave birth to him. What is so hard to understand about that. Its pretty simple actually, especially given that Mary is called the Mother of God in Scripture.

Could you point us to the verse that says Mary was the Mother of God?

 

[Good_Fella]

Could you point us to the verse that says Mary was the Mother of God?

I just did (#892). Mary “is” the mother of God. Jesus still is fully God and fully man.

 

[awantz]

-She is not the mother of God; she bore the human body Jesus used.

How can you say that when it says otherwise in scripture.

 

[humble_maid]

These are wonderful quotes from Mary but they don’t seem to say what you think they are saying. I call her blessed but I don’t think she’s the mother of anyone but baby Jesus. She is not the mother of God; she bore the human body Jesus used.

Please excuse me, but your line of thinking is all wrong. Firstly, Jesus is God (second person of the Trinity) so technically speaking she is the mother of God the Son, secondly He ascended into Heaven with His body therefore He **didn’t use **a human body as a costume while He was here on Earth. Jn 6:54 His body is the Holy Temple and the Word Incarnate.
Thirdly a mother is a mother always whether her child is a baby or a grown adult or has passed on to the other world; she is always a MOTHER. Mary is not a concubine or a surrogate as you suggest otherwise you would agree she is His Holy Mother as your own mother is to you.

 

[awantz]

Please excuse me, but your line of thinking is all wrong. Firstly, Jesus is God (second person of the Trinity) so technically speaking she is the mother of God the Son, secondly He ascended into Heaven with His body therefore He **didn’t use **a human body as a costume while He was here on Earth. Jn 6:54 His body is the Holy Temple and the Word Incarnate.
Thirdly a mother is a mother always whether her child is a baby or a grown adult or has passed on to the other world; she is always a MOTHER. Mary is not a concubine or a surrogate as you suggest otherwise you would agree she is His Holy Mother as your own mother is to you.

AMEN