Protestants and our lady of Guadalupe

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dronald said:
Being a Protestant on this forum is hard…

Not everything Protestants believe has to do with Catholics. I never said Catholics believe that, and if you’re going to be arrogant about it make sure that your reading comprehension isn’t lacking.
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I’m thinking omniscient might have fit what you meant more clearly?

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I’m thinking omniscient might have fit what you meant more clearly?

Jon
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Sure. But I don’t believe Catholics believe Mary is either, and we don’t believe Mary does these things because of that reason. My point is that I never claimed Mary is those things in my post, only that (some) Protestants don’t believe it for that reason.
 
dronald said:
Being a Protestant on this forum is hard…

Not everything Protestants believe has to do with Catholics. I never said Catholics believe that, and if you’re going to be arrogant about it make sure that your reading comprehension isn’t lacking.
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And if you are going to reply with an attitude, you better learn how to convey your point properly!
 
Nicea325 said:
And if you are going to reply with an attitude, you better learn how to convey your point properly!
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If everyone who replied with an “attitude” (as perceived by one party or another) was required to convey his/her points properly, I wonder what would happen to this forum? I’m guessing most threads would shrink by about 35%, eh?😃
 
dronald said:
Sure. But I don’t believe Catholics believe Mary is either, and we don’t believe Mary does these things because of that reason. My point is that I never claimed Mary is those things in my post, only that (some) Protestants don’t believe it for that reason.
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That would be a question for Nicea and other Catholics here: do the saints in Heaven have to have a level of omniscience, made available to them by God, of course, in order to hear the requests for intercession that come for members of the Church Militant?

Jon
 
JonNC said:
That would be a question for Nicea and other Catholics here: do the saints in Heaven have to have a level of omniscience, made available to them by God, of course, in order to hear the requests for intercession that come for members of the Church Militant?

Jon
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Another possibility is that since they are now outside of time, they have plenty of “time” to hear the prayers one by one.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Another possibility is that since they are now outside of time, they have plenty of “time” to hear the prayers one by one.
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Exactly! My encounter with many Protestants is the fact many tend to place human conditions. Saints in Heaven are not confined to time,space and matter as we folks here on earth.
 
dronald said:
To the first reply; I certainly do love Mary as I love others. No worries there, I do my best to love all as God commands.

I read it but I still don’t understand how it answers my question. I agree that we are right to thank God for those who have been sent our way to help lead us to Him. I also think it right to thank the people themselves and the people will normally want one to thank God instead if they’re perfect.

That being said, if I believed possible I would thank Mary for all of her work, and thank God most of all because it was all His doing. Any Catholic I believe does the same, so what’s the issue then?
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This was one of your questions in a previous post:
Can someone please clear up for me what more we can do for a created being?
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Let me ask you this by way of answering your question: At what lengths do you show your gratefulness to your parents? To your other loved ones? to your children? to someone who has helped you…let us say, get a job or a promotion at work?

Do you give your mom flowers on Mother’s day? Would you do the same for Mary, the mother of God?
 
AbideWithMe said:
If everyone who replied with an “attitude” (as perceived by one party or another) was required to convey his/her points properly, I wonder what would happen to this forum? I’m guessing most threads would shrink by about 35%, eh?😃
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No, you must have us confused with some protestant forum.

😉 😉 😉
 
The Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue on Mary and the Communion of Saints concluded that it is not a “dividing” issue if Christians believe in the apparitions at Guadalupe and elsewhere or do not. Lutherans believe that the blessed Virgin Mary prays for the Church and is the Queen of Heaven and leave it up to the individual if they prefer to call upon St Mary or not.

I think most Protestants agree.
 
pablope said:
Let me ask you this by way of answering your question: At what lengths do you show your gratefulness to your parents? To your other loved ones? to your children? to someone who has helped you…let us say, get a job or a promotion at work?

Do you give your mom flowers on Mother’s day? Would you do the same for Mary, the mother of God?
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This doesn’t entirely answer my question but I see where you’re going. Only because I don’t believe I can give flowers to Mary… Can I give flowers to Mary?
pablope said:
You should go visit some extreme protestant sects-and see their attitude towards Mary and Catholics for loving Mary.
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I bet every site is only put up as a, “This is what Catholics are doing” site and not a site out to get Mary. While they may be bad sites run by people doing awful things I don’t believe they are attacking Mary; rather, attacking Catholicism. Which is also wrong.

I’m looking for Christian sects that actually do attack Mary, because I don’t think any of them do.
 
dronald said:
This doesn’t entirely answer my question but I see where you’re going. Only because I don’t believe I can give flowers to Mary… Can I give flowers to Mary?

I bet every site is only put up as a, “This is what Catholics are doing” site and not a site out to get Mary. While they may be bad sites run by people doing awful things I don’t believe they are attacking Mary; rather, attacking Catholicism. Which is also wrong.

I’m looking for Christian sects that actually do attack Mary, because I don’t think any of them do.
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But you have given your mother flowers-right?
 
Nicea325 said:
But you have given your mother flowers-right?
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I usually get her these little gems that go on bracelets on special occasions, but I would like to think the entire world would be less material and we wouldn’t place any emphasis on flowers, gems, etc. I’m a sinful human living on Earth so I cave into Earthly pleasures as well, but I think Mary would agree.
 
dronald said:
Originally Posted by pablope View Post
Let me ask you this by way of answering your question: At what lengths do you show your gratefulness to your parents? To your other loved ones? to your children? to someone who has helped you…let us say, get a job or a promotion at work?
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I think “It’s the thought that counts” would be relevant here. Since we are still in the material world, we use material things (in a reasonable manner, ie: flowers) to represent our intent and emotions (ie: love, thanksgiving, in memory of, etc).

Prayer would count too, I think. I imagine communion of saints to be saints praying for us and loving us down on earth, and in turn, we honor and venerate their deeds that glorify God. God is love, and all God wants is love, and that would seem to extend to how we are to treat our brothers and sisters in Christ.

These apparitions are meant to help us and give us warning. I think God allowed these occurrences so that the saints in heaven can play a role in our spiritual journey. Kind of like how a parent can directly help a child if s/he asks, but if a sibling can also participate as much as s/he is able, then that would bring gladness to the parent to see love and peace among the family (or creatures, in the case of God.)
 
dronald said:
This all sounds too worldly to me. First you say, “something else” when that something else is someone else and the person is Christ. I don’t doubt your focus is on Him too with regards to Mary, but I don’t understand why you say, “something else.”

Aside from that, your analogy seems worldly to me. I have nothing to give Mary that she would want. If it wasn’t for my own greed, and the materialism of others as well I would wish that we would take any extra money we have and distribute it to the poor. I’m thankful for Mary, and for her I thank God which is exactly what she wants me to do.
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I think you make a good point in your first paragraph; however, your second complaint, about it being worldly, doesn’t work IMO. We *are *worldly, even though people in heaven aren’t.

Consider: it is worldly for me to get my parents presents at Christmas time. Does that mean that I should avoid that and tell them that I’m focusing on God this Christmas?

Or for a different analogy, consider that many protestants take issue with statues of saints, yet have no problem at all with a statue of George Washington.
 
Peter_J said:
We *are *worldly, even though people in heaven aren’t.
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Hence a difference between us and them. It’s partly that difference that we need to pay attention to. We choose to focus on God alone in the Spiritual realm, while still celebrating an honoring the memory and stories of those saints that have beaten us there.
Or for a different analogy, consider that many protestants take issue with statues of saints, yet have no problem at all with a statue of George Washington.
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But, we don’t pray to Washington (meaning we don’t pray to him, not meaning his statue, as we know you aren’t praying to statues). I have no problem with statues of saints at all; I find them beautiful and good reminders.
 
Peter_J said:
Consider: it is worldly for me to get my parents presents at Christmas time. Does that mean that I should avoid that and tell them that I’m focusing on God this Christmas?
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Let me know how that goes lol.
Or for a different analogy, consider that many protestants take issue with statues of saints, yet have no problem at all with a statue of George Washington.
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I do not believe they have a problem with the statue, but rather how a Catholic uses the statue in their eyes.

Example: Your buddy calls you from the strip club to come and pick him up because he has had way to much to drink. You, being the loving Christian, go there to pick him up. I know you and see your car in the parking lot of the club. Now the first thought in my mind will not be that Peter is there picking up someone but rather having a good time. :eek:

The same can be said with a statue. If a Protestant, that does not know about the statue, views a Catholic kneeling at the statue and praying…they will believe the Catholic is praying to that statue.

So it is not so much the statue that many take issue with but more about what they assume is going on.
 
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