D
dal11
Guest
My point is you might repent on a daily basis, but you don’t actually have too. Why would you have to. You are going to heaven with out any doubt.
Because we are suppose to confess our sins to God so we can be right with him. He does discipline believers if they continue to sin and do not confess and turn away. I believe that is in Hebrews 11 or 12. God already knows what are sins are and will be so when we confess we are simply agreeing with God that we did something wrong and are being obediant by confessing.My point is you might repent on a daily basis, but you don’t actually have too. Why would you have to. You are going to heaven with out any doubt.
I am a convert to Catholicism but a Christian since I was five. The term saved means it was the forgiveness of sin when one first prayed the prayer of inviting Jesus in. Protestants must ask for forgiveness for any veniel sins before they take of communion and are always convicted by the Holy Spirit like Catholic Christians when they have made wrong choices (sinned). Protestants believe that their salvation can never be taken away once saved. The thought is that if they really made a decision to follow Christ and fall in love with Him, then they won’t deny Him as their Savior.Wouldn’t it actually be better for a catholic because they continue to repent thru out their lives. Where as a once saved always saved believer never has to repent or ask forgiveness again for the rest of their lives no matter what they’ve done. Because they’re already saved, so why would you need to repent.
I completely agree, and this is misunderstood by many catholics who believe that protestants do not continue to repent and ask for forgiveness of sins. I was taught to repent and ask for forgiveness on a daily basis, if not more. We all have weaknesses and we all continue to repeatedly commit the same sins. That does not mean that, as protestants, we feel that it is ok to continue committing the same sins. It is an ongoing battle and it does not matter if youre catholic or protestant when it comes to giving in to temptation. The important thing is to humble ourselves before Jesus Christ, confess our sins and ask for forgiveness. Even if a believer goes to confession, he/she must ask Jesus for forgiveness. No man, priest or otherwise, is capable of forgiving sin directly or through prayer. It is only capable through Jesus Christ.The term saved means it was the forgiveness of sin when one first prayed the prayer of inviting Jesus in. Protestants believe that their salvation can never be taken away once saved.
When one confesses to a priest, it is Jesus ultimatley forgiving us. Jesus himself gave this power to the apostles and not just to anybody else. Protestants must understand this.I completely agree, and this is misunderstood by many catholics who believe that protestants do not continue to repent and ask for forgiveness of sins. I was taught to repent and ask for forgiveness on a daily basis, if not more. We all have weaknesses and we all continue to repeatedly commit the same sins. That does not mean that, as protestants, we feel that it is ok to continue committing the same sins. It is an ongoing battle and it does not matter if youre catholic or protestant when it comes to giving in to temptation. The important thing is to humble ourselves before Jesus Christ, confess our sins and ask for forgiveness. Even if a believer goes to confession, he/she must ask Jesus for forgiveness. No man, priest or otherwise, is capable of forgiving sin directly or through prayer. It is only capable through Jesus Christ.
I believe that a priest or any other person can lead someone through prayer. But the person praying has to understand who they are praying to. If they pray to the priest and ask the priest for forgiveness…then that doesnt mean much. I understand that Jesus gave the power to forgive sins, heal the sick, etc… to the originial apostles, but I do not believe that power exists today.When one confesses to a priest, it is Jesus ultimatley forgiving us. Jesus himself gave this power to the apostles and not just to anybody else. Protestants must understand this.
But let me ask you, so you don’t beleive in “Once saved always saved, I got it made under the shade!” doctrine?
…because it is really anti-biblical.
I don’t think a Catholic thinks he is praying to the priest when he goes to confession. That is the Protestant misconception instead of the Catholics. And the power to forgive sins were given to men but it is Jesus himself who is doing the forgiving. Again, this another general Protestant misconception.I believe that a priest or any other person can lead someone through prayer. But the person praying has to understand who they are praying to. If they pray to the priest and ask the priest for forgiveness…then that doesnt mean much. I understand that Jesus gave the power to forgive sins, heal the sick, etc… to the originial apostles, but I do not believe that power exists today.
( Let me clarify, it does not exist in Roman Catholic priests simply because they are Roman Catholic priests. Being a priest, or any man of God, does not mean that he/she is able to forgive sins. No human is without sin and no human is capable of forgiving sin. It is through prayer to Jesus Christ that sins are forgiven. Now, if that happens to be in the presence of a priest during confession, then great! But the prayer has to be made by the sinner directly to Jesus Christ.)
.
I’m glad you are able to feel that way but I certainly do not. I totally feel like that is a text book definition that doesn’t necessarily relate to the real wold. Confession is something I do because the Church requries it to get to heaven. Frankly, just going to confession does not always allviate my shame and sorrow for offending God. This sometimes remains even weeks after confession. The main reason is to retain salvation.The point is, confession is not something we feel we have to do, out of fear of hell. It is a way to repair the seperation from God that sin causes. Humbling ourselves before God, not man, because in confession the priest is acting “in persona Christe” and telling him our transgressions, promising to try not to commit that sin again, is a liberating experience, not an act that causes or alleviates fear.
The channel that you speak of is Jesus, not a priest, and if Jesus is doing the forgiving, then what purpose does a priest serve when it comes to the confession and forgiveness of sins? There is no purpose unless the individual in question does not know how to pray and needs guidance.I don’t think a Catholic thinks he is praying to the priest when he goes to confession. That is the Protestant misconception instead of the Catholics. And the power to forgive sins were given to men but it is Jesus himself who is doing the forgiving. Again, this another general Protestant misconception.
Reconciliation is a sacrament just like Holy Matimony. In Marriage, you and your girlfriend cannot just go inside a room and lock the door…and say to God “marry us!!”.
The same goes with Reconciliation… you can go directly to God, but you must remember that Jesus established a channel for this to happen.
You said that the power to forgive sins were given to the Apostles but it doesn’t exist today… let me ask you now… prove it.
If one is reasonably certain that a sin was mortal, then immediate action is required. First, one should ask God for the supernatural grace of perfect contrition, which immediately forgives all mortal sins in anticipation of sacramental absolution. All contrition is sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again. “Imperfect” contrition is principally motivated by the fear of sin’s consequences, rather than the love of God, and is only sufficient for the forgiveness of venial sins. “Perfect” contrition is defined by the Catechism as contrition arising from a love of God by which God is loved above all else. However, contrition that is perfect must also include the firm resolution to receive sacramental absolution as soon as possible. The Council of Trent states: “…this reconciliation [that perfect contrition obtains prior to having recourse to the sacrament of confession] nevertheless must not be ascribed to the contrition itself without the desire of the sacrament which is included in it.”
Although perfect contrition, like any other movement toward God, is principally initiated by grace that may not be obtained by one’s own power, care must be taken not to confuse such contrition with a feeling or emotional state of the mind and heart. Contrition, whether perfect or imperfect is not a feeling. Contrition is an act of the will in which one freely cooperates with the intention of the grace by which the act was prompted in the first place. The Catechism of the Council of Trent makes clear that “although contrition is defined as sorrow, the faithful are not thence to conclude that this sorrow consists in sensible feeling; for contrition is an act of the will, and, as St. Augustine observes, grief is not penance but the accompaniment of penance.” Canon **Francis Ripley elaborates, “Contrition is not a ‘feeling.’ It is an act of the intellect and will, not of the senses. Consequently, no one ought to be perturbed by not being able to “feel” sorry when going to Confession, so long as the proper disposition of the will exists. Feelings can be most misleading in this matter.” He adds, “All Christians…should form the habit of constantly making acts of perfect contrition, since perfect contrition may well be the means of the soul’s salvation, should one commit a mortal sin and then die or be killed before being able to go to Confession.” **
The immediate response of the Catholic who recognizes mortal sin should therefore be, by an act of perfect contrition, cooperation with the grace of the omni-potently omni-benevolent God of mercy who longs so desperately to save. A traditional act of prayer that expresses perfect contrition, if the act is firmly willed and includes the resolution to be absolved subsequently in the sacrament of confession, is: “O my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee; and I detest all of my sins not only because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell, but most of all because they offend thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of thy grace, to sin no more, to do my penance and to amend my life. Amen.”
Citations:
…the footnoting didn’t transfer from Word, so that will have to do. I added emphasis (bold) to some bits.11 CCC 1451
12 CCC 1452
13 Ibid.
14 Council of Trent (1551): DS 1677
15 Fr. Heribert Jon, Moral Theology (Illinoise: Tan Books and Publishers, Inc., 1993), p. 395-396
16 Catechism of the Council of Trent; Part II – The Sacraments; Penance; The First Part of Penance; Contrition; Contrition Produces Sorrow
17 Canon Francis Ripley, This is the Faith: A Complete Explanation of the Catholic Faith (Illinois: Tan Books and Publishers, Inc., 2002), p. 290.
18 Ibid.
Maybe you should ask Christ why He established it that way?..and maybe you can tell Him why you think it’s not right.The channel that you speak of is Jesus, not a priest, and if Jesus is doing the forgiving, then what purpose does a priest serve when it comes to the confession and forgiveness of sins?
Why do you read the bible? Surely, you know how to pray.There is no purpose unless the individual in question does not know how to pray and needs guidance.
I can.No one can prove that anyone has the power to forgive sins, and that’s my point.
Prove that the power to forgive sins ceased to exist when the last apostle died. That’s all I am asking. Because you can never find this idea of yours in the beliefs of the early church not until the Protestants introduced brand new unbiblical doctrines in the 1500s.The Apostles, after receiving the power of the Holy Spirit, were able to forgive sins and perform amazing miracles such as healing, etc.
Why do you associate performing miracles, healings and forgiveness as one? Which is easier to say? Stand up and take your mat or your sins are forgiven?If a priest is not capable of performing miracles like the apostles, then why should I believe that they can forgive sins? And if they can forgive sins, then why would I need to ask Jesus? The focus should always remain on Jesus Christ - nothing else is needed - nothing else can be added.
Sure, a priest is not needed to be present in order for the baptism to be valid. In fact, the Catholic Church recognizes the non-catholic baptisms as valid as long as it is done with the form, water and the words.On the topic of Holy Matrimony -
The sacrament of marriage is similar to baptism in that a priest need not be present. A marriage is between the man, woman, and God. It is about the love that the man and woman have for each other. There does need to be a witness, but that witness does not need to be a priest. The marriage certificate is also needed for it to be legal. Again, if a priest officiates a wedding, his purpose is that of a witness only.
You’re not missing anything. When you make an act of perfect contrition, you immediately prove that God has already given you the grace to which you have responded by the act. You prove that charity exists within your heart; that God has saved you from your mortal sin in anticipation of your intended sacramental absolution.So, perfect contrition is not a feeling of sorrow? But, instead, it’s the will to receive the sacrement of confession while trying to will one’s sorrow towards the hurt placed on God rather than the punishment? It sounds like perfect contrition is merely the will to receive the sacrement while making an effort to be sorry for hurting God. It sounds like perfect contrition is not an absolute. In this case, perfect contrition would not be difficult, I think, for most to achieve. What am I missing?