Protestants and the forgiveness of sins

[Singinbeauty]

So Question1: Of the multitude of Protestant Denominations out there (Presbyterian, Anglican, Methodist, Baptist, etc) which of this would you say is the Church that Christ founded on Peter.

Question 2: Once you have picked a particular church, illustrate via a timeline and trace it back to that time when Christ founded his Church on Peter. Show succession.

Question 3: If you chose on Question 2 a church other than your church. Why are you then not in this Church?

Question 4: If you chose on Question 2, a church other than your church, that would mean that your church is not Christ’s Church, so whose Church, is it?

It’s a good thing I believe in the Church that is made up of all of us believers. The differences are vast but one fact remains. Those who are part of His Church believe He is the Savior of the World and follow Him as best they can being the sinful creatures we are.

Don’t throw out the verse “not all who say Lord Lord will be saved”, if you look at the context of this verse it means those who say His name but in their heart of hearts are not in it for Him but in it for themselves.

 

[cazayoux]

Well, my response would be, why pick the topic of the Eucharist when we are talking about Mary’s Immaculate Conception? For me, the jury is still out on the Eucharist and how it is viewed by catholics. But I was responding to Mary’s sinlessness. Where is that in Scripture?

Mary’s Immaculate Conception is a later-developed doctrine.
(I actually didn’t realize from your post that I responded to that that was the topic)

I figured a better example to discuss the 2000 year telephone game you brought up is something that was clearly taught in the first century that you probably do not adhere to. The Real Presence in the Eucharist.

We can discuss Mary’s Immaculate Conception separately, but isn’t as ‘long’ of a telephone game.
The point is that we need to dispel your notion that Catholic Tradition is only a story of a story of a story that’s been corrupted or changed over 2000 years.
With that out of the way, we can intelligently discuss doctrine and it’s development, without the preconceived, prejudice mindset.

So if we’re talking on the telephone, let’s figure out why you won’t believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist.

I’m realizing that I’m making an assumption here, so let me ask.
DO you believe that Jesus is present in the Eucharist?

michel

 

[cazayoux]

On this point I know that God, in His infinite wisdom, would make sure that we have the scripture needed. All we have did not come from a group of men but from God.

I completely agree.
The question is HOW did God make sure that we have the scripture needed?

He established a church.
He gave that church authority and the Holy Spirit to guide it.
The church is even called the pillar and foundation of truth.
The protector of truth!!
A church that HAD to be visible so that we can go to it when a brother sins against us (after going to him, then with two or three others).

GOD gave us this apostolic, authoritative, visible church to protect His truth.

THIS is the church that help to clarify that Jesus was human and divine and revealed to us the trinity.
THIS is the church that helped us know which writings were and were not inspired.
The trinity and the canon were true before these ‘clarifications’, but not fully understood.

THIS is how God, in His infinite wisdom, would make sure that we have the scripture needed! … through HIS church.

michel

 

[cazayoux]

Then Mary’s mother would have to be without sin for this logic to work…

I think you make a great point here about using that logic.

My take is a little different.
Eve was born without sin and helped to bring sin into the world.
Mary helped bring Jesus into the world, who saved us from sin.
It doesn’t bother me in the least to think that the woman who birthed Jesus, had a better (or even, definitely not less) grace given to her that the woman, Eve, that helped bring sin into the world.

Not exactly theology, just my rant.

I definitely need to give this some more thought and study.
This is one topic I’m not as well versed in.

It’s worth mentioning that Mary being immaculately conceived is in no way contradictory to the bible. (this is one of our measures to investigate)

Cheers!

michel

 

[cazayoux]

It’s a good thing I believe in the Church that is made up of all of us believers.

Is the church that Jesus founded visible or invisible?

michel

 

[christcnection1]

I think God has the authority to forgive sins.

Of course… we all do, as I plainly stated

I’m not sure if you were trying to make an additional point. If you were, please explain.

Blessings

 

[christcnection1]

He also taught us to PRAY:

OUR FATHER WHICH ART IN HEAVEN HOLLOWED BE THINE NAME
THY KINGDOM COME.
THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.
GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD.

AND FORGIVE US OUR TRESPASSES.

AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US.
AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION
BUT DELIVER US FROM EVIL.

Jesus words…not mine

And we can all agree that these verses are not in contradiction. Catholics are well-aware of the Lord’s Prayer (the “Our Father” prayer). We pray it far more often than any Protestant group I know of.

I am not disagreeing with you, so I’m not sure I see your point.

 

[christcnection1]

Making up for lost time. I spent 20 years outside the Church. I left at 17 when I met some zealous Christians. 20 years and 10 experiments (church plants, ministries, etc) later, my studies and a Bible degree led me back to the unexpected place where all my questions could get a cohesive, simple, unified answer. Not to oversimplify the matter, but rather to sum up, I’m “home”.

Amen… similar to my story. Hundreds of former Protestant ministers and pastors who have come to the Church in recent years would also be in full agreement!

We love our seperated brethren, and they have most of the truth. But wow, it’s good to be home and living the faith. It’s similar to growing out of puberty and becoming and adult. At times, knowing the truth is a cross to bear, but it’s also well with my soul. His will has been done.

It’s also great to be united over issues surrounding the forgiveness of sins, something that Protestant widely disagree on when it comes to the details. That’s usually where the devil is…

Lord have mercy on us. All Your people desire Thy forgiveness.

 

[christcnection1]

Please, please. I love conversion stories. I have learned so much from reading them.

**BIG WELCOME HOME!! **

You might enjoy mine BTW. There is a link at the bottom. A lot of supernatural things happened to this unlikely soul.

I do ask for a prayer though. I’m currently on a discernment retreat with Society of Our Lady of the Holy Trinity (Fr. John Corapi’s group) and am thinking of entering their formation program in hopes of becoming a priest. May His will be done.

Praise God! I used to be the biggest Anti-Christian I knew!

 

[christcnection1]

I completely agree.
The question is HOW did God make sure that we have the scripture needed?

michel

Addtionally, to connect this with the topic, I think a relevant point can be made. If God is so willing to use man as an instrument to bring forth His word, the Bible, why would God be so unwilling to use man as instruments of forgiveness and healing through the Sacrament of Reconcilation?

The point is, if God can use man to bring forth the word of God, then it’s not hard to believe that God might use man to bring His forgiveness, as in the Sacrament of Reconciliation. In fact, it only seems appropriate in light of how He has used His people throughout time.

God does the work. He gets the glory. His people are the ordinary instruments of His love and mercy to a lost world. And indeed, sometimes people in the family of God get out of line; it’s also through the family that God wills they get their hearts right.

Through Him, with Him, and in Him… the Body of Christ is not detached from Christ. We are far more united to God than some Christians give us credit for.