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Rhubarb
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Oof. I need to stop browsing forums this late and making snide comments about posts I didn’t quite give enough thought to. [slaps own hand]
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Shibboleth
Guest
Sorry I am getting on this thread a bit late. Often it is simply that a non-Catholic doesn’t understand what is going on… especially with Pentecostals they don’t see the emotion and reverence that is so apparent in their Churches with all the activity.
Explain to her why you are kneeling and why you are doing the sign of the cross. Otherwise they are going to miss the beauty of such things and might just think that you are doing a Jane Fonda workout.
Also might I suggest printing out a copy of the Didache and giving it to her? It is an ancient Christian document dating from before 100 A.D. and could go as far back as 70 A.D. which would mean that it existed during the Apostolic Age.
Anyways in this document it outlines Baptism, Fasting and Prayer – but most importantly it outlines the Mass as it was way back then with the Eucharist, Prayer after Communion, Assembly on the Lord’s day, Bishops and Deacons.
I mean you can’t get any better than this document to show that early Christians were practicing Mass almost exactly the same way it is practiced by the Apostolic Churches of today.
Explain to her why you are kneeling and why you are doing the sign of the cross. Otherwise they are going to miss the beauty of such things and might just think that you are doing a Jane Fonda workout.
Also might I suggest printing out a copy of the Didache and giving it to her? It is an ancient Christian document dating from before 100 A.D. and could go as far back as 70 A.D. which would mean that it existed during the Apostolic Age.
Anyways in this document it outlines Baptism, Fasting and Prayer – but most importantly it outlines the Mass as it was way back then with the Eucharist, Prayer after Communion, Assembly on the Lord’s day, Bishops and Deacons.
I mean you can’t get any better than this document to show that early Christians were practicing Mass almost exactly the same way it is practiced by the Apostolic Churches of today.
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NotWorthy
Guest
YES, WE DO!!! Most of the bias against the Catholic Church is due to preconveived notions, usually fed to someone by a non-catholic (for reasons of their own). This would be best if you had someone to explain what is going on and why. Again, I recommend Mass Appeal for a quick study of our mass.
If people learn what we are doing at Mass, why we are doing it, and that it is all biblically based, they may start appreciating the beauty of the Mass.
What did Bishop Sheen say? Only a Hundred or so people hate the Catholic Church. Thousands hate what they think the Catholic Church is. I know I’m misquoting his exact saying, but the main gist should be understood.
NotWorthy
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alwayssearching
Guest
I just wanted to say how odd I find it that so many are uncomfortable with Catholic mass. I grew up Episcopalian, and aside from some differences in general beliefs, I found the Catholic mass very much the same as the Episcopal service. The Body and Blood of Christ, I always beleived it to be THE body and blood of Christ, not a symbol. The Nicene Creed was read in my church like in the Catholic one, the offering of Peace amongst parishioners…
I am sorry your friend was uncomfortable.
I am sorry your friend was uncomfortable.
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bengal_fan
Guest
maybe because there were a number of “catholics” responding the same way. as some one coming into the church, i see catholics reacting the same way to mass. some even stand in the back the whole time and leave immediately after receiving communion. if we want others to be excited about the true faith, we must be just as excited if not more. some one told me that you need to be 10 times more excited than you want others to be. just a thought, because my wife (who is not ready to convert) has the same reaction (maybe not as blatant, she participates where she can and really tries to get something out of every mass she goes to). mass is tough to follow for a non-catholic. the missals are horrible for a first timer to try to follow. and, again, the others who look like they are being forced to be there don’t help either.
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santaro75
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Wow. that sounds like when someone feeds you a meal you don’t like. you eat it all, thank them and deny seconds.
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santaro75
Guest
very good point. The protestant services are very straight forward and easy to understand. the Mass is more rooted in an ancient culture and you have to be a little mystical to get into it. But i think the orginal christians had a more mystical approach to God. Especially a belief that God can change the bread and wine to flesh and blood. I mean, if someone told you today that the red sea was parted by the power of God so that he could escape from somebody and there wasn’t any video to prove it…would you believe it?
But when the mass was first practiced people actually believed in the super natural power of God in a real tangible way.
Well, I hope she likes it better the next time she goes. I think I will be able to tell by whether she asks any questions or not.
peace
Any way, I t
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mark_a
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A. Possibly pre-conditioned to dislike it.
B. Subconciously knows she’s hearing the truth, has a subconcious loss of control, presto- irratability and anger.
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Atreyu
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Hey Santaro, I just want to say good luck! And I will be praying for you. I am in a VERY similar situation to you and I know how it feels! Some people here have given me some very good advice, and another website I have found very helpful is Gary Hoge’s.
In my own life I was raised in a Catholic Church (well, I was a bit of a prodigal son in that respect, but anyway…) but in a culture that is very secular and the only religious people seem to be over 50! And so from an early age I had resigned myself to the fact that I was most likely going to have to marry a non-Catholic. However I have always believed that this can be a very good thing; if you can get that person - the person you love - to convert to Catholicism, then I firmly believe that is one of the greatest things you could do in your lifetime*.
*Disclaimer: I know the language I have used isn’t particularly great, but please look to the (hopefully evident) message I have intended and not the literal meaning of the words.
About this, I just want to say, be patient! I don’t think ultimatums are ever a good thing. Well, sometimes you are forced into making them, but I would say only do it under extreme circumstances! If you really wish for her to convert then you’re going to need to be very patient. And when talking to her, make sure you don’t get angry! I know how easy it can be to get frustrated. But you must try to not get angry, and to always be patient.
In my own life I was raised in a Catholic Church (well, I was a bit of a prodigal son in that respect, but anyway…) but in a culture that is very secular and the only religious people seem to be over 50! And so from an early age I had resigned myself to the fact that I was most likely going to have to marry a non-Catholic. However I have always believed that this can be a very good thing; if you can get that person - the person you love - to convert to Catholicism, then I firmly believe that is one of the greatest things you could do in your lifetime*.
*Disclaimer: I know the language I have used isn’t particularly great, but please look to the (hopefully evident) message I have intended and not the literal meaning of the words.
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MarilynIN
Guest
My sister-in-law is an evangelical Protestant, non-denominational. My brother is a very devout Catholic, and they were married in the Church. She was a bit uncomfortable at first, but not for the reasons you might suppose. She said she was bumfuzzled by the fact that Catholics barely sing the songs! She was used to belting out hymns in her church, and found it to be a bit disconcerting to be, ironically, the loudest singer at the Mass when my brother first brought her along when they were dating.
By the way: They go to Mass together every Sunday and Holy Day even though she has never converted.
By the way: They go to Mass together every Sunday and Holy Day even though she has never converted.
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amanda_nicole82
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I was flattered when my Catholic friend invited me to attend mass with him. It was my first time to attend a Catholic mass, but I wasn’t really uncomfortable. I didn’t join him when he went to the front only because I thought that you had to be Catholic to take the Lord’s Supper in a Catholic church. I also invited him to attend one of my church services. But I guess everyone is different and therefor responds differently in different situations.
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adventistnomore
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Yeah… I had the sme experience with a girl (except I went to an eastern church). That relationship didn’t work out… they don’t in the end. Its very difficult for most protestants to open up to a catholic spirituaity… and since this girl and i couldn’t unite spritually… our relationship died. Give it time, work on a friendship if youcare for her… but your relationship will be nearly imprrosible to produce spriitual fruit if she’s as closed to the faith as my former girlfriend was.
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ElizaE
Guest
I just wanted to say that your post brought tears to my eyes. I could just see the Holy Spirit working through your words. Hope you come to Mass soon. I will be praying for you.
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Ric
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I’m an Evangelical Christian and my wife was Roman Catholic. We were married in the Roman Catholic church. Trying to remember back to the first mass I had to sit through before our marriage is two things; 1. The beauty of the whole service, and 2. how many unbiblical things I started to notice throughout the whole mass.
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4HisChurch
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Hi, Ric! Would you mind giving us some examples of unbiblical things you noticed?I’m an Evangelical Christian and my wife was Roman Catholic. We were married in the Roman Catholic church. Trying to remember back to the first mass I had to sit through before our marriage is two things; 1. The beauty of the whole service, and 2. how many unbiblical things I started to notice throughout the whole mass.
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Ric
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Well, I’m not going to go into detail (that can be for another thread), and I have not attened a mass for a few months now, so I’ll just give you the biggie - the Roman Catholic’s veiw of the lord’s Supper, etc…
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Blanka
Guest
I am a convert (1981) to Catholicism. I was raised Presbyterian and had visited a variety of other Protestant churches with friends during my teenage years. I am also a rather intuitive person, so when I first attended a Catholic mass as an assignment for a college comparative religion class, I could sense that there was something powerful and special about the Catholic Church. Of course, at the time I didn’t realize that it was the Divine Presence of Christ in the tabernacle. I just knew that the Catholic Church was the real Church. (Maybe it helped that my parents and friends had never made any negative remarks about the Catholic Church so at the time I didn’t see Protestant churches as any better or worse than the Catholic Church.)
My husband (who is also a convert) and I took Protestant relatives (who were visiting) to mass one time and the only question that came up was about them not being able to take communion. These were relatives that were not regular church goers and they didn’t seem to have any real prejudice against the Church.
We took a neighbor woman to mass one time. She was okay with it and commented on how she recognized that we pray the Lord’s prayer too.
My mom, who is not Catholic, has attended mass with us many times and has no problem with it. Interestingly, she was going through some papers a few years ago and discovered (I guess she had somehow forgotten) that she was actually baptized in an Episcopal Church in NYC many years ago a young adult. So after years of being Presbyterian and later Methodist, she became Episcopal.
My husband (who is also a convert) and I took Protestant relatives (who were visiting) to mass one time and the only question that came up was about them not being able to take communion. These were relatives that were not regular church goers and they didn’t seem to have any real prejudice against the Church.
We took a neighbor woman to mass one time. She was okay with it and commented on how she recognized that we pray the Lord’s prayer too.
My mom, who is not Catholic, has attended mass with us many times and has no problem with it. Interestingly, she was going through some papers a few years ago and discovered (I guess she had somehow forgotten) that she was actually baptized in an Episcopal Church in NYC many years ago a young adult. So after years of being Presbyterian and later Methodist, she became Episcopal.
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Atreyu
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Hey Ric. There’s something I want you to realise about the Catholic Church and your claim about it’s practices being “unbiblical”. That is, it is unbiblical, but only according to the way you choose to interpret scripture. The particular criticism you have is an interesting one. I have seen both sides to the argument about the Lord’s Supper, and I simply cannot understand how anybody could possibly interpret that passage to mean anything other than how Catholics interpret it! I don’t want to get into detail about it, as the topic is covered in other threads. However, all I want you to realise is that the Catholic practice of the Lord’s Supper is biblical! You just choose to interpret those particular passages differently. I really hope you can understand this point. So much of the friction between Protestants and Catholics comes from one side saying “this is how you interpret this part of Scripture!” but then the other side saying “no it isn’t, you’re wrong! You interpret it this way!!” And that’s the end of the argument. If you can understand this point, then hopefully you’ll realise what a kick in the teeth it is to hear Protestant’s saying the Catholic mass is unbiblical!
As to the rest of the mass, even though I haven’t read it myself, I have heard it said that the Didache contains a lot on what should go on at mass, or something along these lines. I have also heard it said that the Didache was under discussion as to whether or not it should be part of the New Testament canon. If it had been part of the New Testament canon, then the Catholic mass would be entirely biblical (feel free anyone to correct me if I have this wrong). And I don’t think the fact that it didn’t make it into the New Testament is really that big a deal, is it? Sure it is not necessarily infallible, but it is still entirely useful.
As to the rest of the mass, even though I haven’t read it myself, I have heard it said that the Didache contains a lot on what should go on at mass, or something along these lines. I have also heard it said that the Didache was under discussion as to whether or not it should be part of the New Testament canon. If it had been part of the New Testament canon, then the Catholic mass would be entirely biblical (feel free anyone to correct me if I have this wrong). And I don’t think the fact that it didn’t make it into the New Testament is really that big a deal, is it? Sure it is not necessarily infallible, but it is still entirely useful.
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Ric
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Atreyu,
Hi and thanks for the reply.
Yes, we do interpret Scripture differently. The Roman Catholic system of interpretation is in light of Roman Catholic Tradition, and my (Evangelical Christian) interpretation is in light of God’s own Word.
Atreyu:
Hi and thanks for the reply.
Yes, we do interpret Scripture differently. The Roman Catholic system of interpretation is in light of Roman Catholic Tradition, and my (Evangelical Christian) interpretation is in light of God’s own Word.
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Gottle_of_Geer
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