PROTESTANTS! Answer me this....

[Damascus]

Hi,
Exactly, the church is a group of people led by the Holy Spirit who congregate together to Worship God.

Can you tell me more about the Holy Spirit AFM, since you seem to be so assured of having it guiding you.

 

[santaro75]

Hi,
Exactly, the church is a group of people led by the Holy Spirit who congregate together to Worship God.

Is there a moral authority within this church or are all members individuals of equal moral authority under the holy spirit?

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
Exactly, the church is a group of people led by the Holy Spirit who congregate together to Worship God.

Take a look at Acts 15, and let us know what is going on there.

Who did they go to, when they had a dispute?

Could they all have been equal in authority, if they had to go to someone to help them with a dispute?

Why did they go all the way to those particular people, instead of electing someone closer to home to solve their dispute for them?

Where are the successors of those leaders today?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Can you tell me more about the Holy Spirit AFM, since you seem to be so assured of having it guiding you.

Well,
I cant but I can refer you to Scripture

John 14:17, and verse 26

John 16:1-16, John 20:22, Acts 5:32, Acts 2:38, Acts 8:14-17, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 Corinthians 6:18-20, Ephesians 2, Ephesians 1:1-14, Phillipians 1: 9-11, Phillipians 2:1-3,

1 Corinthians 2:6–16, Romans 8:2-4, Galations 5: 16-26, 1 Thessalonians 1:4–7, John 7:37-39 Acts 15: 24-29, Romans 2:28-29, 1 Corinthians 12: 1–4, Ephesians 6:17-18, 1 Peter 1:1-2, 1 John 2:20-27

Okay that is enough. There is so much more but I think that is enough for now. Hope this helps:thumbsup:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Is there a moral authority within this church or are all members individuals of equal moral authority under the holy spirit?

Hi,
The moral authority comes directly from the bible. I would think you would agree with me on this:thumbsup:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Take a look at Acts 15, and let us know what is going on there.

Who did they go to, when they had a dispute?

Could they all have been equal in authority, if they had to go to someone to help them with a dispute?

Why did they go all the way to those particular people, instead of electing someone closer to home to solve their dispute for them?

Where are the successors of those leaders today?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Take a look at Acts 15, and let us know what is going on there.

Who did they go to, when they had a dispute?

Could they all have been equal in authority, if they had to go to someone to help them with a dispute?

Why did they go all the way to those particular people, instead of electing someone closer to home to solve their dispute for them?

Where are the successors of those leaders today?

Hi,
I will read it as soon as I get a chance:thumbsup:

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
The moral authority comes directly from the bible. I would think you would agree with me on this:thumbsup:

How does the Bible confer this authority on people?

Does it get little legs, and stand up, and then extend little hands out to trace a cross of Holy Oil on your forehead and on your hands, to anoint you as leader of your Church?

 

[santaro75]

Hi,
The moral authority comes directly from the bible. I would think you would agree with me on this:thumbsup:

would you agree that the moral authority comes from interpretation of the bible? and not from the Bible itself. Without a person the Bible lacks the ability to express itself.

For example what does the bible say about slavery or communism or human cloning? The bible doesn’t specifically speak on these subjects but someone’s interpretation of the bible would allow him to speak with authority against these subjects.

 

[Damascus]

Well,
I cant but I can refer you to Scripture

John 14:17, and verse 26

John 16:1-16, John 20:22, Acts 5:32, Acts 2:38, Acts 8:14-17, 1 Corinthians 3:16, 1 Corinthians 6:18-20, Ephesians 2, Ephesians 1:1-14, Phillipians 1: 9-11, Phillipians 2:1-3,

1 Corinthians 2:6–16, Romans 8:2-4, Galations 5: 16-26, 1 Thessalonians 1:4–7, John 7:37-39 Acts 15: 24-29, Romans 2:28-29, 1 Corinthians 12: 1–4, Ephesians 6:17-18, 1 Peter 1:1-2, 1 John 2:20-27

Okay that is enough. There is so much more but I think that is enough for now. Hope this helps:thumbsup:

No, but thanks for the verses ( I did look at them and printed them out for review)

I want you to tell me:

From the heart what YOU think the Holy Spirit is does and anything else you want to add,

And then tell me how you feel assurance you are guided by it

If you are going to use the bible - then mention the verses that show me in that verse in context states you can be assured you have it guiding you by the bible and nothing else.

And say not some other means.

I want it crystal clear.

 

[Damascus]

How does the Bible confer this authority on people?

Does it get little legs, and stand up, and then extend little hands out to trace a cross of Holy Oil on your forehead and on your hands, to anoint you as leader of your Church?

Well, we already got a definition of Church from AFM. It did not include any sacraments in it.

She may accept 2 or so of them, but she thinks its the bible and the holy spirit that does those and does not recognize the ones that are in the bible because it Involves having to have a real Church to do them.

I hope her bible is waterproof since baptisms can get wet.

And marriage, well I dont know. Thats another topic.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I want you to tell me:

Hi,
Why would you want my opinion when you have God’s word right at your fingertips.

The verses I gave are crystal clear. Im sorry they are not clear to you. For me it is better to tell you what God says instead of my opinion. It doesnt really matter what I think. It matters whether or not I believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior and whether or not I choose to follow Him.

Im glad you printed them out. Maybe if you go over them a few times and pray for God to give you wisdom in understanding. That is really all I can offer. My opinion means nothing. We all have opinions. Only the Word of God can speak truth.

 

[Damascus]

Hi,
Why would you want my opinion when you have God’s word right at your fingertips.

The verses I gave are crystal clear. Im sorry they are not clear to you. For me it is better to tell you what God says instead of my opinion. It doesnt really matter what I think. It matters whether or not I believe in Jesus Christ as my Savior and whether or not I choose to follow Him.

Im glad you printed them out. Maybe if you go over them a few times and pray for God to give you wisdom in understanding. That is really all I can offer. My opinion means nothing. We all have opinions. Only the Word of God can speak truth.

Well, I have looked the verses over and I dont see one that says that answers my questions.

Thanks anyway.

 

[mercygate]

Hi,
The moral authority comes directly from the bible. I would think you would agree with me on this:thumbsup:

Heck, no. Moral authority comes from God working through his authorized Body.

Once you realize that the Bible is part of Tradition, that it arose from the Church and was codified by the Church: when you recognize that much of the New Testament is confusing and even contradictory outside the context of the Church and her liturgical life, that the claim of the inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture is a doctrine of the Church, that anything called “church” in the New Testament was part of the confederation of verified Apostolic teachers, then you cannot look at the Bible as a self-contained proposition.

People hardly ever read the third letter of John but it illustrates this point very well: it’s all about who is this guy? who sent him? by what authority does he lead and teach?

Authorized preaching is what marks an authentic Church: “How can they preach unless they are sent?” says Paul in Romans 10.

An example someone once used on me when I held your view of Scripture was this:

What if I see a busy intersection where cars are crashing into one another and pedestrians are being hurt and can’t cross the street? So I go to the costume rental store and rent a policeman’s uniform and go to that intersection and direct traffic. I even do a pretty good job of it. People are safer, traffic flows. But am I a policeman? No. Do I have authority to do that? No. If I need to give somebody a ticket, can I do that? No. However well intentioned I may be, however sincere, I am not what I purport to be.

That is how the Apostolic Churches view Christian entities that are alienated from the spiritual, historical, and jurisdictional bonds that unite the Body of Christ at its heart.

 

[MrS]

So I go to the costume rental store and rent a policeman’s uniform and go to that intersection and direct traffic. I even do a pretty good job of it. People are safer, traffic flows. But am I a policeman? No. Do I have authority to do that? No. If I need to give somebody a ticket, can I do that? No. However well intentioned I may be, however sincere, I am not what I purport to be.

That is how the Apostolic Churches view Christian entities that are alienated from the spiritual, historical, and jurisdictional bonds that unite the Body of Christ at its heart.

You are correct, and unfortunately most of our separated brethren will not understand because of their “rejection” of the authority given the Catholic Church. Thus they have only our book - The Bible - to misuse as their single “authority”.

In keeping with my reputation for the sarcastic… I will call their action a cop-out.

smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/7/7_6_7v.gif …Bible only… okay … you can pass… good luck

%between%

 

[ALLFORHIM]

How does the Bible confer this authority on people?

Does it get little legs, and stand up, and then extend little hands out to trace a cross of Holy Oil on your forehead and on your hands, to anoint you as leader of your Church?

Hi,

Nope one just has to pick it up an start reading it and pray for the Holy Spirit to open their eyes so they are no longer spiritually blind. My ministers are very well educated in the bible. They went to seminary etc. But most importantly, they need to believe themselves or they really shouldnt and really cant teach. God wants us to use our intellect to study out the Scriptures as they did in the early church and let the Holy Spirit guide them to all truth. We are told by Scripture to not rely on man’s wisdom or the world’s philosophy but to sift everything we hear through Scripture(not sure where this is in Scripture)

Were’nt we all told to spread the Good news! We who believe in Christ and have the Holy Spirit in us are all called to spread the Good news about Jesus Christ. Some are just better then others. Some have the gift of preaching, some teaching etc. Im sure you get my point:thumbsup: My spiritual gift is hospitality. Beside speaking about the Gospel message I show the love by helping people. That was the gift God gave me and Im using it to the best of my ability.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

would you agree that the moral authority comes from interpretation of the bible? and not from the Bible itself. Without a person the Bible lacks the ability to express itself.

For example what does the bible say about slavery or communism or human cloning? The bible doesn’t specifically speak on these subjects but someone’s interpretation of the bible would allow him to speak with authority against these subjects.

Hi,
Sorry I should clarify. Morality comes from God your right. But the bible is how we even know what God wants from us. Just like God gave Moses the ten commandments, so we would know what sin is. God wrote them down on stone so the Jews would know. Just like God inspired men to write down what He wants us to know while living here on earth.

I hope that clarifies.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
Exactly, the church is a group of people led by the Holy Spirit who congregate together to Worship God.

So, what about people who congregate to worship God, but haven’t got the Holy Spirit? (Such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, etc.) They have Bibles, too, but it’s clear that they don’t follow Christian tradition, and they beileve many heresies.

How would you be able to determine (other than the fact that they believe differently than you, and that you are quite certain that you have the truth) that they are heretics, and you are not?

Since they have all the same ingredients that you have (congregation that wants to worship God + Bible + self-appointed Bible interpreters who claim to have the Holy Spirit guiding them) - how can you be absolutely certain that they are wrong and they don’t really have the Holy Spirit even though they think they do, and that you are right?

How do you distinguish the real Holy Spirit from the false spirits that guide heretical organizations like those?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

So, what about people who congregate to worship God, but haven’t got the Holy Spirit? (Such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, etc.) They have Bibles, too, but it’s clear that they don’t follow Christian tradition, and they beileve many heresies.

How would you be able to determine (other than the fact that they believe differently than you, and that you are quite certain that you have the truth) that they are heretics, and you are not?

Since they have all the same ingredients that you have (congregation that wants to worship God + Bible + self-appointed Bible interpreters who claim to have the Holy Spirit guiding them) - how can you be absolutely certain that they are wrong and they don’t really have the Holy Spirit even though they think they do, and that you are right?

How do you distinguish the real Holy Spirit from the false spirits that guide heretical organizations like those?

Hi,
Well, it really does come down to God’s Word. Jw and Mormons and some other cults clearly add things to the bible. Their doctrines can easily be found wrong when put up against the bible.
That is why it is so important to study the bible so when confronted with fallacies and false prophets we will be able to discern the truth.

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
Well, it really does come down to God’s Word. Jw and Mormons and some other cults clearly add things to the bible. Their doctrines can easily be found wrong when put up against the bible.
That is why it is so important to study the bible so when confronted with fallacies and false prophets we will be able to discern the truth.

But they do find their doctrines in Scripture. They just interpret the Scriptures according to a different tradition than you do.

But since they deny that they have any kind of tradition, they think that “the Holy Spirit” is revealing these things to them.