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Swiss_Guy
Guest
No, the Catholic Church is the one holy catholic and apostolic church, and most RC scholars agree with that.
But Protestants are still Christian and part of Christianity.
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But Protestants are still Christian and part of Christianity.
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wisdomseeker
Guest
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504Katrin
Guest
completley agree with you 100% and of course it wasn’t the only thing
This is why I mentioned in my last paragraph where I said that they abandoned entire sacraments and all, that they’re non-catholics. I just pointed out the one and only thing that I can understand they protested against back then.
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504Katrin
Guest
I believe this topic was started by someone who wants to be Catholic in his heart of hearts 
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CountrySteve
Guest
hey do protestants go to heaven?
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CopticChristian
Guest
I am not taking you to task or trying to correct you. The whole idea of a “Reform” is ludicrous. I have well meaning, sincere, Reformed Christians. I read their literature. One of their magazines points out as a problem Indulgences and then goes on to explain the necessity of reform.completley agree with you 100% and of course it wasn’t the only thing
The Reformation was not Reformation. You can call it that. The reality is that it was a Creation and abandonment. Extrinsic Justification and Sanctification are man made beliefs. Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are man made beliefs.
The United States is not a Monarchy. It was not a reform of Englands rule it was a new Creation.
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CopticChristian
Guest
any answer other than I don’t know, I presume so, I hope so, no Protestant has returned to tell us, will be a private judgment.
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CountrySteve
Guest
no offense to protestants(since i still kinda am one since not confirmed into the Church yet) but it doesn’t make since too me that people who protest God’s Church go to Heaven
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504Katrin
Guest
I’m only speculating (of course) but I met a guy in the train the other day and for osme reason we started talking. Turned out he’s catholic and his wife is protestant but he goes to the protestant church each Sunday with his wife. I asked him if he didn’t want to go to the catholic church to receive Jesus. He said something like “yeah I know I know…” I think that someone like him will have to explain that to God on their judgement day, while someone who’s raised protestant and doesn’t know any better will get a pass
meltzerboy
New member
Yes, Protestants are Christians, and so are Catholics. They both believe in the divinity of Jesus and in the Trinity, and many Protestant denominations practice the Sacrament of Baptism as well as other ordinances. I think the most essential dogma of both religions is quite similar. But there are differences between the religions with regard to doctrines, practices, and customs. The concepts of sola fide and sola scriptura come immediately to mind, although I realize not all Protestants interpret these ideas so simply. Perhaps one might say the mainstream of Protestants as well as Catholics have the same Christian faith, but not exactly the same religion. So do (most) Quakers hold the same Christian faith, but in their case surely not the same religion as either Catholics or Protestants; while Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses take us beyond even the same Christian faith. Yet each of these groups regards itself as Christian and, even more, the true Christian faith. Although Catholics may consider Protestants as Christians, they, for the most part, do not regard them as Christians who possess the full Truth of the Church, to put it nicely. Many in fact regard them as heretics, to put it more bluntly. (Some Orthodox Jews likewise consider non-Orthodox Jews–Conservative and Reform–as heretics, but still regard them as Jews.) From the typical, non-scholarly Jewish perspective, Catholics and Protestants are grouped together as Christians, and their dogma differs sufficiently from Judaism for many Jews to regard them both as outside of the Jewish faith, as well as religion. However, for both the Jewish and the Christian scholar, there are enough significant similarities with respect to both faith and religion between Protestants, Catholics, and Jews so as not to separate them completely from one another. The most obvious is that they all are monotheistic religions, which share a common religious history.
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Swiss_Guy
Guest
People who break away from the Church of God don’t go to heaven (if they aren’t reconciled by death), but Protestants who are born into their communities can still go to heaven.
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CopticChristian
Guest
I do not agree with the notion that Catholics and christians share ordinances. Protestants have ordinance and Catholics have 7 well defined Sacraments.
Catholics believe in Intrinsic Justification, Protestants made up Extrinsic Justification. Catholics believe in the Bible/Church and Protestants created the Bible alone. Catholics believe in salvation by grace alone, through faith alone, working in love. Protestants believe in salvation through faith alone and deny works either monergistic or synergistic.
The above are essential dogmas we differ on. To throw in a pool all who identify themselves as Christian as the denominator for designation decries the Authority of the Church and belief that the Church is the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church from which the Protestants departed from and designated themselves as the true christians.
Jews as St. Paul says is not a Jew that is circumcised, for he who is circumcised and does not obey the moral law undoes their circumcision. He also says he is a Jew outwardly and does not do the law is not a Jew and the gentile that does the law without circumcision is circumcised of the heart.
In terms of montheism. Are you OK with Islam, Judaism and Christianity in the same breath? Judaism is a cultural/racial identity made possible by the mother who is Jew making it distinct from Christianity. While we all share a similar history it is not that history that creates problems, it is the history that many Protestants deny or skew or rewrite to fit the needs of their beliefs. It is often not what Protestants believe that cause the separation from whence they came, rather what they deny that makes it difficult to reconcile differences.
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seeker57
Guest
My, you folks are really nit picky.
This is just another one of those, “my pope is better than your pope” diatribes.
This is just another one of those, “my pope is better than your pope” diatribes.
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hn160
Guest
Exactly, what teaching of Christ did Lutherans reject, was it papal authority if so, when did Christ say that Rome was His Seat on earth?
meltzerboy
New member
I was trying to differentiate between faith and religion. Do you deny that Protestants are of the Christian faith, even though they may not share all or most of the doctrines of the Catholic religion? If you do deny this, then what are they? Even if you respond heretics, are they not Christian heretics? I referred to Protestants in terms of ordinances rather than Sacraments, which, as you state, are well-defined by Catholicism. However, I believe baptism in many Protestant denominations is valid according to the Catholic Church. By the way, what does circumcision have to do with the discussion at hand? I am OK with Islam, Judaism, and Christianity in the same breath, since they all worship the same G-d, based on your own Catechism. If you wish to make the argument that Catholicism is the one true religion, that’s fine; but please don’t expect Protestants to agree with you just because you and other Catholics say so; nor Jews, nor Muslims. Christian faith is one thing; Catholic religion–including all the dogma, doctrines, practices, and customs–is another.
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CopticChristian
Guest
I understand your differentiation attempt. The difficulty as you point out is understood in light of what you say “what does circumcision” have to do with it. Shall I embark on what I think you should believe based on my understanding of Torah, Talmud and rabinnical teaching. I probably would make some error in my assessment and not do well to synthesize my thoughts.
I believe that Protestants are Christians by their Baptism that is regenerative, that they deny and are imperfectly united to the Body of Christ.
Knox, Zwingli, Luther would probably be considered heretics. Calvinists consider Methodists heretics to this day. Those that are Protestant are devoid of that label as through no fault of their own are in the as I say, new religion started by white europeans with teachings that were novel and new the likes of which the Christian world had not seen. These beliefs are many and varied and solidified by 4 basic beliefs that differ and divide.
I was circumcised by the way. It is not my purpose to have agreement in what I believe always, what the Church believes, or what you believe. I stated my opinion and thoughts in concert with the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church that we call the Catholic Church.
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awantz
Guest
Protestants and Catholics are all apart of the same religion, Christianity.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Jesus said he would build a Church, not many Churches divided. Paul tells us that the mystery revealed to him by Christ was the mystery hidden for all ages through which the manifold wisdom of God is known The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.Exactly, what teaching of Christ did Lutherans reject, was it papal authority if so, when did Christ say that Rome was His Seat on earth?
Luther left the Church. Luther is not the magesterium. He rejected the Church that Jesus promised to build and in doing so created novel ideas by manipulating the bible and adding “faith alone”, attempted to manipulate the child of the Church The bible by rejecting certain books and changing the Bible due to his preference.
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guanophore
Guest
Yes, but when they get there, they realize they are Catholic.
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rinnie
Guest
When he gave the keys to the Kingdom to Peter.Exactly, what teaching of Christ did Lutherans reject, was it papal authority if so, when did Christ say that Rome was His Seat on earth?
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