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Biedrik
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Agreed. That’s “uninformed”, not “hardcore”.
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Ben_F
Guest
I used to live in Coupeville. Does anyone there know Utz Conard. He was a friend of mine way back in 1955
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GaryTaylor
Guest
The Catholic Church upholds the 8-Ecumenical Councils? If you believe this, then you should be in the CC if you accept its catechism.
If you don’t believe this then you are where you are.
And that would then make you a Cell which is not part of body. Not in Comminuion with Rome.
If your idea of christian religion was not different then we wouldn’t debate based on Sola Scriptura.
Issues AC, the Blessed Mother, family, divorce, marriage, confession and the sacraments. All which of Chirsts Church would then be non issue.
Then being the population of the US is 75% Christian, we could serve God much better by eliminating abortion immediately.
Maybe then the USA will make it 500-years instead of struggling at 250.
Are there similiarites? Of course but the issues which divide hold us back from the real needed changes today in society.
God Bless, Gary
If you don’t believe this then you are where you are.
And that would then make you a Cell which is not part of body. Not in Comminuion with Rome.
If your idea of christian religion was not different then we wouldn’t debate based on Sola Scriptura.
Issues AC, the Blessed Mother, family, divorce, marriage, confession and the sacraments. All which of Chirsts Church would then be non issue.
Then being the population of the US is 75% Christian, we could serve God much better by eliminating abortion immediately.
Maybe then the USA will make it 500-years instead of struggling at 250.
Are there similiarites? Of course but the issues which divide hold us back from the real needed changes today in society.
God Bless, Gary
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waxwing
Guest
Its true that these forums don’t reflect Catholicism as say experienced at your local parish or fellow Catholic friends and acquaintances - imo. If you looking a technically correct answer this is a good place to follow/participate in the threads, if just want to get along with Christians on the other side of aisle without terms like ‘we’re right’, ‘we win’, ‘we were first’ then should do fine interacting with Catholics in real life, thinks there’s balance and tactfully way to bridge the two extremes, but if your only experiencing Catholicism on this forum your not getting the full picture.These forums are filled with hardcore Catholics. I saw a thread on here asking whether or not all Protestants go to hell or not.
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MrsWendyW
Guest
[QUOTEIf someone asks you if you are Christian, what do you say?
- Yes
– No, I’m Catholic - Yes, Catholic]
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SedesDomi
Guest
Two people can be “Christian”, and yet have different “faiths and practices”, that is, different “religions”.
Christianity itself is, using this definition of “religion”, both one religion and many different religions.
meltzerboy
New member
This is very similar thinking to that of Torah Judaism. Many or most Orthodox Jews consider people like me (Reform Jews), as well as half-baked Conservative Jews, as heretics; however, they still consider all of us Jews (who have not yet seen the light). At the same time, the Orthodox do not directly blame us members: they place most of the blame on the leaders of the Reform and Conservative heretical movements and their so-called “rabbis,” who led their followers astray. I guess you can imagine what some Orthodox Jews might think of Christians (Catholic, Protestant, Quakers, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons hardly makes much difference to them), if they think of people like me as heretics!
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GaryTaylor
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Yes, its comes to down sayin we Believe Jesus Christ is the light the way an the truth. And no-one come’s to the father except though Jesus Christ. [Does every Christian church believe that. I don’t think so.]
Which is obviously a major point of Christology.
Nonetheless some Protestant denominations fall away the 4th council. some at the 7th. So beliefs seriously vary.
Those at the 7th make an honest effort to bridge to gap with Rome. Those at the 4th are promoting hereical thinking and blasphemy. Convinced their far fetched fringe thinking is correct? Then promoting ideas that Rome is the evil empire though Bible.
So yes there’s a “major” problem with the OP title.
God Bless, Gary
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Georgia
Guest
When I was making the arrangements to marry my Catholic fiance, I was a Baptist, thinking I would always be one, and was working with a fantastic priest who is now a cardinal. A form asked my religion and I answered “Christian” and I followed with “but my denomination is Baptist.” Father looked as me and said “You know, you are right.”
I am thrilled that I crossed the Tiber and I thank God for it, but I don’t look at my former practice as another religion. True, I don’t think they have the full faith, but I most certainly do not look on the people in my former affiliation as being of another religion.
I am thrilled that I crossed the Tiber and I thank God for it, but I don’t look at my former practice as another religion. True, I don’t think they have the full faith, but I most certainly do not look on the people in my former affiliation as being of another religion.
meltzerboy
New member
As a Jew with several Catholic friends, I agree completely with your comments.
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onenow1
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Hi, TMJ,
First welcome !!! Now,your signature says you are protestant I wonder why ? Indeed you are catholic{christian} in light of your baptism. however you are seperated by your denomination withdrawing, from its complete Catholic doctrinal belief; in particular the sacrements an dogmas,your denomination does not hold to.
A little from St. Agustine below:
“What the soul is to man’s body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church. The Holy Spirit does in the whole Church what the soul does in all members of one body. But see what you must beware of, see what you must take note of, see what you must fear. It happens that in the human body, or rather, off the body, some member, whether hand, finger, or foot, may be cut away. And if a member be cut off, does the soul go with it? When the member was in the body, it lived; and off, its life is lost. So too, a Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.”
ST. Agustines Sermons, 267, 4, 391-430 A.D.
WOW ! St. Paul says this earlier. Romans 12.
Being a heretic TMJ certainly does not apply to you, you are removed by so many years since the Refermation ! So when you come to believe all the Catholic church teaches, it is your responseablity to come into the fullness of the truth. After all you should want all !
God Bless
:compcoff:
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PJM
Guest
My dear friend in Christ;
I disagree with your asscessment: To be part of 'One Church" requires holding unto the same set of beliefs; which is God’s desire; but not the reality of the world we live in.
The NT has over 100 refferences to only One church… But Christ forsaw the future of schism and the Protestant revolt:
My friend this is something we need to pray about; but thinking falls short of reality as these verses show:
John 10:16 And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
1 Cor. 1: 10” I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.”
**Eph. 2:19-20 **“So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [singular] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, ***Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, *** in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [singular] in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. “
Eph. 4: 4 -8“There is one body Only One Church] ** and one Spirit, [Only One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, Only One God] ONLY one faith, [Only One set of doctrine and dogma****] one baptism,*** By water in the Trinity]*** one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. "
There are many CRITICAL to salvation issues on which Catholics and Protestants are FAR apart in there understanding:
OSAS, Faith Alone; The forgiveness of sins THROUGH the Sacrament of Confession; The Real Presence; The Seven Sacraments; The Primacy of Peter and Rome; Saints and Devine Worship, to name some of the more evident ones.
We too would love to see God’s desire of one church become a reality; BUT friend communion requires FULL COMMUNION; that’s God’s way. Let us pray!
God Bless,
Pat**
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PJM
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My dear friend in Christ;
I certainly agree that this discussion is not about WINNING; and ONLY God can say with certainty if it’s about losing
[That is the official position of the CC]But not saying “we are right” would be to Deny the One True Faith given to us by Christ. SEE Above post!
I also agree that it’s not about braging rights! But there can only be ONE truth on any given issue; and clearly and biblically on ALL MATTERS touching Faith and in regards to Morals and Morality; that truth has been intrusted to the CC by Jesus Himself [Jn.14: 16-17; Jn.17:15-19 and Mt. 16:19].
IMO saying it is “so” not only does not make “it” happen; but makes it more difficult to accomplish.
May our Lord continue to Guide us, Bless and LEAD us to where He wants us to be!
Pat
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paxlily
Guest
I know lots of Protestants who think I’m going to hell because I’m a revert Catholic. They were “friends” who no longer speak to me.These forums are filled with hardcore Catholics. I saw a thread on here asking whether or not all Protestants go to hell or not.
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Matthew_P_Muehl
Guest
Thats sad many protestants feel this way towards Catholics.I know lots of Protestants who think I’m going to hell because I’m a revert Catholic. They were “friends” who no longer speak to me.
Hang in there paxlily, All we can do is pray for those with that point of view.
My God Bless you and yours…
Matthew
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emarc
Guest
they do exist and so w/ some hardcore protestants who claim all catholics go to hell.These forums are filled with hardcore Catholics. I saw a thread on here asking whether or not all Protestants go to hell or not.
but don’t let them bother you - they are minority. why you are not Catholic should be
your concern. rev, fulton sheen once said that if non-catholics only knew what Catholics truly believe in, they’ll not remain being non-catholics for long (paraphrasing).
cardinal neumann did just that - he learned what truly Catholicism is and did convert.
a brilliant fellow though. praise the Lord.
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SedesDomi
Guest
You probably see your former co-believers as being of the same religion because Protestants tend to see all denominations as members of the same “religion”, that is, Christianity.
Whereas Catholics tend to see Protestant denominations as different “religions”, yet still (imperfectly) part of the Church. This is probably due to the fact that the word “religion” originally referred to the different “religious orders” (in which members were bound with vows) within the Catholic Church. Thus, in past centuries, one could speak of the “Franciscan religion” (the Franciscan order), or the “Dominican religion”. So, “religion”, in Catholicism, has a slightly different set of connotations behind it.
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PJM
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Not “all catholics” feel the same way! THAT SAID; I wonder if this person was not only sincere but seeking a better understanding of the Catholic position of: ALL SALVATION FLOWS THROUGH THE CC?
Some believe this teaching to mean that One must be a member in good-standing of the Catholic Church in order to be saved: And yes there was a time when this was articulated and believed; and YES again; ALL SALVATION must flow THROUGH the CC, as it is the ONLY Christian Church founded by God; not by mortal men…
However there a more unlighted view [permitted as long as the basic doctrine remains un-changed; that indicates that this MIGHT BE possible for those outside of the CC membership:
These forums are filled with hardcore Catholics. I saw a thread on here asking whether or not all Protestants go to hell or not.
[/QUOTE]
Not “all catholics” feel the same way! THAT SAID; I wonder if this person was not only sincere but seeking a better understanding of the Catholic position of: ALL SALVATION FLOWS THROUGH THE CC?
Some believe this teaching to mean that One must be a member in good-standing of the Catholic Church in order to be saved: And yes there was a time when this was articulated and believed; and YES again; ALL SALVATION must flow THROUGH the CC, as it is the ONLY Christian Church founded by God; not by mortal men…
However there a more unlighted view [permitted as long as the basic doctrine remains un-changed; that indicates that this MIGHT BE possible for those outside of the CC membership:
**Catechism of the CC…
868 The Church is catholic: she proclaims the fullness of the faith. She bears in herself and administers the totality of the means of salvation. She is sent out to all peoples. She speaks to all men. She encompasses all times. She is “missionary of her very nature” (AG 2).
**819 **“Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”
MY NOTE: This does NOT mean we hold the same faith beliefs in total; nor are we literally members of the “same One Church.”…. it’s Through the CC ….
816 “The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him.”
The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: “For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God.”
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? **Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: **
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.
And YES I’m an OLD TIME LATIN CATHOLIC: All Catholics are morally obligated to accept this teaching! BUT some still hang on to there version of “one” truth.
God Bless,
Pat
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SedesDomi
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PJM
Guest
My friend I think you may have taken this further than the Church entends???
Beleif in Christ remains a condition for everyone’s salvation so LONG as they have HAD [not chose to accept] But had NO real opportunity to know Christ and have accepted Him.
My previous post does not specify those who by there own control either don’t know Christ or have not availed themselves of the opportunity when presented to them. Everyone is compelled to seek thre TRUTH!
Ignorance is only a vaild excuse; when it is in FACT a vaild conidition beyond ones control, and ONLY then.
God Bless,
Pat
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