Protestants are not a different "religion" from Catholics

[david_ruiz]

As others have pointed out, protestants are in the same religion but not the same Church. Only the Catholic Church (both visible and in doctrine of other denominations) is one, holy, catholic and apostolic. Start by showing every doctrine of your denomination can be traced to the apostles or is the same as the CC’s (not in wording but in concept).

There was a thread -timeline of church- where we looked at early church writings.I only read up to about 130 A.D. I found most writings to be quite catholic, that is universal, in that the precepts were common to both Catholics and Protestants.That is, very little mention of transubstantiation or even an sacrificial offering, or Mary, or of any head bishop (pope), or of any “confessional” ,purgatory, praying to/with deceased saints. The fact is everything we have in common as faith , is apostolic.

 

[John_oxios]

CopticChristian;8232464:

Speaking of roots, C.S. Lewis wrote that those ignorant of history are slaves to the recent past. I would say recently (last hundred years) the CC and it’s popes seem quite benevolent, even endearing.This has not always been the case. You seem to give good history but make it look “clean” from CC point of view. Indeed the princes protested in Germany, but what did they “protest” ?

Under an earlier arrangement, for peace sake, whatever “religion” the prince chose was the "religion’ of his province(for as yet no village /city/province would have a Catholic church on one end of main street and a Lutheran at the other). As you know Germany was divided with many princes Catholic and many “Lutheran”. This lasted about 25 years when pressure came and Rome/her governments acted to enforce an even earlier ruling, making any other Christian religion illegal, with imprisonment and property confiscation the consequences .This new stance was presented to all of the German princes at a council, and this is what the “Lutheran” princes protested, that the freedom to worship freely was being taken away… Popes in the 1800’s decreed against freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, bible societies, vernacular bibles… There is no glory in disunity, but there is no glory in this kind of unity either, so help us God.

“And you shall know them by their fruits”. “Let all men be called liars (Catholic/Lutherans ? ) , only God is True”.

Hello David,
princes and kings eh? Their problem was that the Church was not bending or changing to their decrees. Prince Charles V ‘USED’ Martin Luther and Philip Malacnthan to break his people and Gov’t from Church policies, Just as King Henry decided to make himself Church head so he could do as he pleased.

These are the same kings who used Christianity to bring their peoples under one faith to reign over the people and use their religion to unite them as a nation, country or keep the peace between with other countries.

         A quote from St. John Damascene,  754 a.d. in which he replies to the emperors of the time taking issue/ or siding with the muslim belief against images (statues, ho;y pictures,  paintings/ icons)  went out to destroy all such religious signs/ symbols, which wer not adored but were natural as a visible sign of things unseen, which catholics know are really only wood or stone and that they neither hear us or help us, but were seen as a thing that brings an absent reality to mind.

Here’s what he stated:

**"… any point of Church discipline is worth dying **for, if it is attacked by a government that claims the right to make laws for the Church."

From 'The Greek Fathers + Their Lives and Writings+, by Adrian Fortescue [Ignatious Press] page 206.

And that is still going on today, Governments are still trying to make laws for the Church to change teachings of Christ.

Secular unity? religious unity? by giving up what we believe- so that we can all get along together? That’s called syncretism, and it is what world governments propose to exact One world government with a global one world religion, but its not Chrisitanity their proposing but an Earth religion, i.e. Pantheism, Gaia

Here’s what they want you to swallow:

pantheism.net/earth.htm?gclid=CP28t9DXi6wCFYTe4Aoduwy8mA

World Pantheism is probably the most clearly earth-focussed of spiritual/religious organizations. Nature is the very heart of our spirituality, which is close to Deep Ecology, Gaia theory, Nature religion, or basic and direct Nature Worship. The simplest way to sum it up is in Michael Gorbachev’s phrase "Nature is my god. … World Pantheism focuses on this Earth rather than an imaginary realm

God bless,
John

 

[rinnie]

After seeing this thread run for quite sometime, I must say that while we may have the so called same Religion, which I would say is scripture, it shows us how we are miles apart.

If you are a true Catholic you accept the Pope as the true Vicar or Christ. Protestants deny this.

You accept the Church as the Pilar of all truth, Protestants don’t.

You accept the Eucharist as the living Christ, Most Protestants don’t.

You accept the Priest as having the authority given to them by Christ to forgive our sins in his name, Protestants don’t.

You MUST have all of the 7 Sacraments Protestants don’t.

While we both believe in Christ, and try to live our faith with the grace given, We are still many miles apart.

We accept the Blessed Mother as sinless and the Pure Mother of Christ. We accept that she is a Virgin and always has been.

We are just SO FAR APART. And unfortunately these things Do Count! They really do. We cannot pick and choose what scripture we want to accept, and what we don’t like interpret it to be what we want it to be. We just can’t.

AS I stated WE are not the Pilar of all truth, it is the Catholic CHurch. We are not led by the Holy Spirit the Church is.

While we can be blessed by the Spirit of Christ at anytime, we still cannot make the promise that we can lead others into the Ultimate Truth, The Church can, it is a promise from God.

 

[wisdomseeker]

There was a thread -timeline of church- where we looked at early church writings.I only read up to about 130 A.D. I found most writings to be quite catholic, that is universal, in that the precepts were common to both Catholics and Protestants.That is, very little mention of transubstantiation or even an sacrificial offering, or Mary, or of any head bishop (pope), or of any “confessional” ,purgatory, praying to/with deceased saints. The fact is everything we have in common as faith , is apostolic.

**Ephesians 3
that the principality in heaven, the principalities and powers, the angels in heaven learn the wisdom of God from the Church and through the Church. (Eph 3:10) **

If you knew the Church you would understand God. There is only ONe Church, the Catholic Church. Anyone outside her has no right to teach the Word of God. Anyone leaving this Church, is outside of her and has not Truth.

 

[wisdomseeker]

There was a thread -timeline of church- where we looked at early church writings.I only read up to about 130 A.D. I found most writings to be quite catholic, that is universal, in that the precepts were common to both Catholics and Protestants.That is, very little mention of transubstantiation or even an sacrificial offering, or Mary, or of any head bishop (pope), or of any “confessional” ,purgatory, praying to/with deceased saints. The fact is everything we have in common as faith , is apostolic.

While you were reading the Fathers of the CC, did you read them saying anything about those who did not abide by the Teachings of the Church? what would happen to them?

 

[wisdomseeker]

There was a thread -timeline of church- where we looked at early church writings.I only read up to about 130 A.D. I found most writings to be quite catholic, that is universal, in that the precepts were common to both Catholics and Protestants.That is, very little mention of transubstantiation or even an sacrificial offering, or Mary, or of any head bishop (pope), or of any “confessional” ,purgatory, praying to/with deceased saints. The fact is everything we have in common as faith , is apostolic.

“The Church is hidden from no one for it is the Catholic Church itself which is therefore called universal in Greek because it is spread throughout the entire world. It is not allowed to anyone not to know this Church for which reason, according to the word of Jesus Christ, it is not possible that it be hidden. There are many other things which keep me in the bosom of the Catholic Church – the unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here, her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests from the very seat of the Apostle Peter up to the present episcopate keeps me here and last, the very name of Catholic, which not without reason belongs to this Church alone in the face of so many heretics, so much so that although all heretics want to be called Catholic, when a stranger inquires where a Catholic Church meets, not one of the heretics would dare point out his own basilica or meeting place. The name of the Catholic Church is peculiar to the true Church.” St Augustine.

Do you see anything here about protestants?

 

[John_oxios]

There was a thread -timeline of church- where we looked at early church writings.I only read up to about 130 A.D. I found most writings to be quite catholic, that is universal, lic.

Hello,

Transubstantiation is a philosophical term, to explain by the truth of 'the Mystery of our faith" teaching, Christ’s “Real Presence in the Eucharist.” The Church did not invent this teaching in the 11th century as would protestants lead you to believe. The term came up out of necessity when the Church’s teaching ‘Real Presence’ was questioned. A monk in the 10th century writes his Abbot, What do we mean by Real Presence in the Eucharist.
he later then wrote a book on what his impression of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist meant to him, the Book was banned, and but a hundred years later, the question and opinions became so large the issue had to be addressed, Because the Mystery of the Faith, was being challenged by individuals.

The Greek Orthodox were content @ leaving the explanation as The Mystery of Faith, what the Apostles and early Church accepted, Christ Real Presence in the Eucharist.
However in the west, it needed to be defined to protect the teaching of the Church so that heresies would not form.

 

[John_oxios]

There was a thread -timeline of church- where we looked at early church writings.I only read up to about 130 A.D. I found most writings to be quite catholic, that is universal, in that the precepts were common to both Catholics and Protestants.That is, very little mention of transubstantiation or even an sacrificial offering, or Mary, or of any head bishop (pope), or of any “confessional” ,purgatory, praying to/with deceased saints. The fact is everything we have in common as faith , is apostolic.

Hello

Part two:

 No head Bishop?  Read your bible through and through not just what people point you too.   Christ commissions Peter to lead His sheep, feed his sheep, Jhn 21:15-19,

Biblically the head steward is given the keys to the household, until the masters return:

Matt 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Let’s go to Numbers and show a Biblical precedence for a head Shepherd;

Num 27:15 Moses said to the LORD,

"Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, appoint a man over the congregation,

who shall go out before them and come in before them, who shall lead them out and bring them in; that the congregation of the LORD may not be as sheep which have no shepherd."

**And the LORD said** to Moses, "Take Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay your hand upon him;  cause him to stand before Elea'zar the priest and all the congregation, and you shall commission him in their sight.

You shall invest him with some of your authority, that all the congregation of the people of Israel may obey.

And he shall stand before Elea'zar the priest, who shall inquire for him by the judgment of the Urim before the LORD; at his word they shall go out, and at his word they shall come in, both he and all the people of Israel with him, the whole congregation."

And Moses did as the LORD commanded him; he took Joshua and caused him to stand before Elea’zar the priest and the whole congregation,
and he laid his hands upon him, and commissioned him as the LORD directed through Moses.

Who is the LORD? Who is the Word of God? Jesus Christ! Jesus does exactly what he had done in the Exodus, Moses led the people, and Joshua was chosen by God to lead the nation after Moses passes by the laying on of hands.

Let’s go to Acts:

Act 1:15-26, In those days Peter stood up among the brethren (the company of persons was in all about a hundred and twenty), and said,

"Brethren, the scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David, concerning Judas who was guide to those who arrested Jesus.


For he was numbered among us, and was allotted his share in this ministry...

Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, ‘Let his habitation become desolate, and let there be no one to live in it’; and 'His office let another take.'

So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,


beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us--one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection."

And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsab'bas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthi'as.

And** they prayed** and said, "Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen

to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place."

Act 1:26 And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthi’as; and he was enrolled with the eleven apostles.

Act 2:14 But Peter, standing with the eleven,** lifted up his voice and addressed them, "Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words**

Today the Church still prays to the Lord and asks for guidance in choosing the next Head Steward and seeks the guidance of the Holy Spirit in their choice of choosing.
Each Priest is ordained by the Laying on of hands, and commissioned by the very same method/ rite Christ gave to the apostles before Pentecost:

Jhn 20:21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
:23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.

This is what the Church calls an ontological change in their being and this laying on of hands can be compared to that in Numbers, and even with Elijah and Elisha, al biblical!

Judaism nor Early Christianity were never a religion of the Book alone, God’s word is active and sharper than a two edged sword, it grows… transcends, and Jesus commissioned His Church to remain His witness til he returns. The Jews would have us believe there was no revelation of God since 350 B.C. But the Holy Spirit guides Christ Church with revelation of God. It took two thousand yrs of instruction and the Jews still did not recognize Christ. The stands as God’s witness and testamednt to Him.

God bless,
john

 

[david_ruiz]

david ruiz;8509212:

Hello David,
princes and kings eh? Their problem was that the Church was not bending or changing to their decrees. Prince Charles V ‘USED’ Martin Luther and Philip Malacnthan to break his people and Gov’t from Church policies, Just as King Henry decided to make himself Church head so he could do as he pleased.

These are the same kings who used Christianity to bring their peoples under one faith to reign over the people and use their religion to unite them as a nation, country or keep the peace between with other countries.

         A quote from St. John Damascene,  754 a.d. in which he replies to the emperors of the time taking issue/ or siding with the muslim belief against images (statues, ho;y pictures,  paintings/ icons)  went out to destroy all such religious signs/ symbols, which wer not adored but were natural as a visible sign of things unseen, which catholics know are really only wood or stone and that they neither hear us or help us, but were seen as a thing that brings an absent reality to mind.

Here’s what he stated:

**"… any point of Church discipline is worth dying **

for, if it is attacked by a government that claims the right to make laws for the Church."

From 'The Greek Fathers + Their Lives and Writings+, by Adrian Fortescue [Ignatious Press] page 206.

And that is still going on today, Governments are still trying to make laws for the Church to change teachings of Christ.

Secular unity? religious unity? by giving up what we believe- so that we can all get along together? That’s called syncretism, and it is what world governments propose to exact One world government with a global one world religion, but its not Chrisitanity their proposing but an Earth religion, i.e. Pantheism, Gaia

Here’s what they want you to swallow:

pantheism.net/earth.htm?gclid=CP28t9DXi6wCFYTe4Aoduwy8mA

World Pantheism is probably the most clearly earth-focussed of spiritual/religious organizations. Nature is the very heart of our spirituality, which is close to Deep Ecology, Gaia theory, Nature religion, or basic and direct Nature Worship. The simplest way to sum it up is in Michael Gorbachev’s phrase "Nature is my god. … World Pantheism focuses on this Earth rather than an imaginary realm

God bless,
John
Hello JO. Whew ! You totally evaded the issue of ANY depravity (error) on the part of the Church. Come on, most Catholic historians admit to some wrongdoing on her part. Anyways, as far as princely or protetstant depravity, I beat you to the punch. Did you think I was joking ,or God ,when he said let all men be liars , only God is true (paraphrase ) ? But lets’ be realistic .There were real reformers arising out of the Catholic church .Many were put to death (cause they-tyndale, had no prince or army, to combat the Pope’s armies and princes).That any prince would side with Luther for ONLY political reasons is quite cynical. Regardless, both sides had armies- you know, “onward christian soldier”. Signs of the times… You rightly worry about governmant intrusion into church matters, while you totally neglect the speck in CC’s own eye , that of church intrusion into government thru out history . That a prince or king helped reformers may seem odd, unseemly today in the west, but is totally understandable and partially justified ,even partially Godly, given past times and circumstances.

 

[John_oxios]

John oxios;8510490:

Hello JO. Whew ! You totally evaded the issue of ANY depravity (

error) on the part of the Church. Come on, most Catholic historians admit to some wrongdoing on her part. Anyways, .

hello David,
Depravities??? That’s a generalization be specific, can’t defend against rumors and innuendo, Name them, let’s go over them, but you’ll find out that most of the time it was not the whole Church, and that many of the depravities were done in the name of the Church by the secular hierarchy.

So Jesus’ Church, guided by the Holy Spirit, [so says Scripture]is run by liars?? This is the same Church that recorded the Bible prior to Protestantism,

David Ruiz: That any prince would side with Luther for ONLY political reasons is quite cynical

No that’s a fact!!! Read the History, Luther a disgruntled minister/ made bishop all of 8 yrs. [whose secular life schooling and profession was that of a lawyer prior to being ordained in 1507] didn’t start the Lutheran religion, he died in 1547, Melancthan took his theologies and used them to promote Lutheranism which begun in 1560, that’s some 45 yrs to from and 13 yrs after his death
Tyndale a reformer?? He wrote his own translation outside of the Church,

The emperors saw [way back to the Constantine 325] The Catholic Church as a way to unite their kingdoms and in the 11th Century gave authority to the Church to influence the unification of nations.

Explain to me just how the Pope took over world gov’t?? historical proof and reference’s please.

The Catholic Church has always put emphasis of individual Human rights, while governments seek to treat individuals as non-persons.

P.s. I spent ten yrs; outside the Catholic Church seeking God as a protestant, 5 in the Lutheran religion myself, all you have to do is look up what they tell you, present what the catholic Church really teaches to be turned away, Protestants shut down with written proof to their rumors and mis-staements/ false hoods against the Church.

do you know Luther is called the Father of the Haulocaust? From a teaching from the Pulpit? He was so frustrated by not being able to convert the Jews in his community to Christ, he told his parihners to run them out of town and burn their homes down That’s a fact.

F. Dean William Inge (P)

"The Anglican Dean Inge, of St. Paul’s Cathedral, London, did not hesitate to say . .

'If we wish to find a scapegoat on whose shoulders we may lay the miseries which Germany has brought on the world, I am more and more convinced that the worst evil genius of that country, is not Hitler or Bismarck or Frederick the Great, but Martin Luther

.’
If you want to dig up some lousy protestant leaders I can do that too, Calvin left his wife remarried and failed to support his estranged family, he also used the Inquisition to kill his opponents

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/protin.htm

"It is unquestionable . . . that the champions of Protestantism - Luther, Calvin, Beza, Knox, Cranmer and Ridley - advocated the right of the civil authorities to punish the `crime’ of heresy . . . Rousseau says truly:

`The Reformation was intolerant from its cradle, and its authors were universal persecutors’ . . .

Auguste Comte also writes:

"`The intolerance of Protestantism was certainly not less tyrannical than that with which Catholicism is so much reproached.’ (Philosophie Positive, vol.4, p.51).

"What makes, however, Protestant persecutions specially revolting is the fact that they were absolutely inconsistent with the primary doctrine of Protestantism - the right of private judgment in matters of religious belief! Nothing can be more illogical than at one moment to assert that one may interpret the Bible to suit himself, and at the next to torture and kill him for having done so!

Read about ‘The Battle of Lepanto’ which is buried in history, 1571, If it wasn’t for the Catholic Church you’d all be muslim.

The Battle of Lepanto took place on 7 October 1571 when a fleet of the Holy League, a coalition of Catholic maritime states, decisively defeated the main fleet of the Ottoman Empire in five hours of fighting on the northern edge of the Gulf of Patras, off western Greece. The Ottoman forces sailing westwards from their naval station in Lepanto (Turkish: İnebahtı; Greek: Ναύπακτος or Έπαχτος Naupaktos or Épahtos) met the Holy League forces, which had come from Messina.

The Victory of the Holy League prevented the Mediterranean Sea from becoming an uncontested highway for Muslim forces, protected Italy from a major Ottoman invasion, and prevented the Ottomans from advancing further into the southern flank of Europe. Lepanto was the last major naval battle in the Mediterranean fought entirely between galleys, and has been assigned great symbolic importance.

Even the Temple of the Old Testament Had it’s bad leaders, in two thousand yrs how many bad popes were there? two three? Did they change ancient Sacred Traditon/ Scriptural teachings of the Church? No… Did they defend them yes…

"It is unquestionable . . . that the champions of Protestantism - Luther, Calvin, Beza, Knox, Cranmer and Ridley - advocated the right of the civil authorities to punish the `crime’ of heresy . . . Rousseau says truly:

We can go back and forth all day but the Protestant Church in it’s four hundred yr history is more guilty of depravities in its young History compared to the 2000 yr old History of the Catholic Church.

stop passing Rumors get the real truth.

God bless,
John

 

[John_oxios]

John oxios;8510490:

Hello JO. Whew ! You totally evaded the issue of ANY depravity (error) on the part of the Church. Come on, most Catholic historians admit to some wrongdoing on her part. Anyways, as far as princely or protetstant depravity, I beat you to the punch. Did you think I was joking ,or God ,when he said let all men be liars , only God is true (paraphrase ) ? But lets’ be realistic .There were real reformers arising out of the Catholic church .Many were put to death (cause they-tyndale, had no prince or army, to combat the Pope’s armies and princes).That any prince would side with Luther for ONLY political reasons is quite cynical. Regardless, both sides had armies- you know, “onward christian soldier”. Signs of the times… You rightly worry about governmant intrusion into church matters, while you totally neglect the speck in CC’s own eye , that of church intrusion into government thru out history . That a prince or king helped reformers may seem odd, unseemly today in the west, but is totally understandable and partially justified ,even partially Godly, given past times and circumstances.

Dear david Ruiz,

** Beat me to the punch?** but you’d like to believe that. You’re too wet behind the ears, wisdom comes with age.

I’ve been reading the bible since 1992, studied it heavily with several Protestant denominations, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, Baptists etc… etc… came back to the Catholic Church after a 25 yr lapse, why? because they things I was told about the Catholic Church by Protestant ministers in Bible study or from the Pulpit were found to be false… If you’re preaching the truth WHY Lie about the Catholic Church or any other for that matter.

from 1999 to 2001 I have some 4000 hrs of intense biblical reading, Exegesis, exposition and commentary from ‘the Interpreters Bible’ a 12 volume set by 70 of the Worlds leading Protestant Scholars, from 1962, on every verse in the bible, KJV next to RSV, look it up in your local library. This volume didn’t pul or throw any punches @ the CC But it did mention why or where the Catholic Church and Protestant Church differed in the interpretation of Scripture.

ask.com/wiki/Interpreter’s_Bible_series

Cardinal Newman, [Originally an evangelical Oxford academic and priest in the Church of England]

Said, 'to study Church history is to cease to be protestant."

you want to know, understand what the Catholic church teaches? Study catholic Church writings.

Then someday you may beat me  the to the punch!  Right now you're swinging and missing!    Words are a power, be careful what you repeat as Truth without looking up its source... Be  a Borean!

would you consider allowing abortions a freedom or depravity?

The Catholic Church is protecting the unborn innocent right to live, while Protestants are for or silent of Abortion, Our gov’t does not see the unborn as persons at all!

God bless,
John

 

[david_ruiz]

After seeing this thread run for quite sometime, I must say that while we may have the so called same Religion, which I would say is scripture, it shows us how we are miles apart.

If you are a true Catholic you accept the Pope as the true Vicar or Christ. Protestants deny this.

You accept the Church as the Pilar of all truth, Protestants don’t.

You accept the Eucharist as the living Christ, Most Protestants don’t.

You accept the Priest as having the authority given to them by Christ to forgive our sins in his name, Protestants don’t.

You MUST have all of the 7 Sacraments Protestants don’t.

While we both believe in Christ, and try to live our faith with the grace given, We are still many miles apart.

We accept the Blessed Mother as sinless and the Pure Mother of Christ. We accept that she is a Virgin and always has been.

We are just SO FAR APART. And unfortunately these things Do Count! They really do. We cannot pick and choose what scripture we want to accept, and what we don’t like interpret it to be what we want it to be. We just can’t.

AS I stated WE are not the Pilar of all truth, it is the Catholic CHurch. We are not led by the Holy Spirit the Church is.

While we can be blessed by the Spirit of Christ at anytime, we still cannot make the promise that we can lead others into the Ultimate Truth, The Church can, it is a promise from God.

Hello Rinnie. You tell it like it is, that we have huge doctrinal differences. It’s amazing how far we’ve gone from the beginnings of the Apostles Creed. It is not enough, anymore, to the point where you say we, individuals, are not guided by the Holy Spirit.This is false…".A wise man saves souls"- proverbs. “Meditate how to save a soul by the Word”- Barnabus(115 ?), early church father. In general, Catholics lead someone to the Church, to sacraments wherein is Christ. Protestants generally lead someone to Christ, thereby becoming part of the Church. Totally different emphasis. Indeed,our gospels are far apart.Your good news is different from mine. How did this happen ? Are you willing to be shown Catholic errors ? Can you shed the self-serving doctrine of infallibility, and the indoctrination that everything CC does today is from the Apostles ? Like once right always right ? It is possible for half my church are Christians born of Catholic seed. The Father does draw miraculously.

 

[Warrenton]

I am disappointed at the title of this forum. Protestants are not a different “religion” from Catholics. That’s a misuse of the term “religion.” Islam is a different religion from Christianity, but Protestants are part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. This is acknowledged by most RC scholars.
Tom

Hi TJ: I think “religion” is used on this forum like it is in the US Constitution (“Freedom of Religion”) or in the BOCP “Articles of Religion.” Obviously, in 1789, there were pretty much only Christians of different sects in the United States, and Articles did not refer to all Christianity (that’s obvious from the distinctions they draw between strict Calvinism and Roman Catholicism), but rather “the beliefs of the COE.”

So, with that in mind, please don’t take offense - we are all Christians, of course.

You Anglicans count TS Eliot, John Keble and CS Lewis among your fold — Doesn’t get more Christian than those guys, right?!?

It’s just one Trad Cath talking, but personally, I’d walk 100 miles to hear Reverand Sydney Smith preach!

Welcome to the club! :hug1:

 

[joe370]

Protestants are imperfectly part of the One Church, thus, they are of a different religion. Muslims follow the God of Abraham, but imperfectly, thus, Islam is a different religion.

I’m not following you either…

 

[joe370]

I am disappointed at the title of this forum. Protestants are not a different “religion” from Catholics. That’s a misuse of the term “religion.” Islam is a different religion from Christianity, but Protestants are part of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church. This is acknowledged by most RC scholars.
Tom

I agree that Protestantism is not a different religion. However, logically speaking, you and I do not belong to the same church if you do not belong to the CC in communion with Rome - right?

 

[david_ruiz]

david ruiz;8511280:

** Beat me to the punch?**

but you’d like to believe that. You’re too wet behind the ears, wisdom comes with age.

I’ve been reading the bible since 1992, studied it heavily with several Protestant denominations, Evangelicals, Pentecostals, Baptists etc… etc… came back to the Catholic Church after a 25 yr lapse, why? because they things I was told about the Catholic Church by Protestant ministers in Bible study or from the Pulpit were found to be false… If you’re preaching the truth WHY Lie about the Catholic Church or any other for that matter.
Does not seem like a good reason to go back to catholic Church, because of something negative in the former . Sounds quite protestant, you know, find something you disagree with, then leave that church. I was not as wise as you .I did not seek God (for no man does). I did not see falsehood and head towards truth. I would say I was found by Truth, and He discerned all things for me… Maybe Protestants spoke lies of CC, but I felt the CC didn’t necessarily lie about protestants, but about salvation itself. The gospel itself was clouded with “Catholicism”. Great seeds are in Her, but poor in birthing. I think that is why half the protestants I meet came out of seeds of Catholicism (much like Nicodemus), but find “life” in the simpler gospel.They meet Jesus. They stick close to the Apsotles Creed. Remember those days aged man,centuries ago, before the confessional, transubstantiation, necessity of beliefs on Mary, or a pope,purgatory or praying to saints or a rosary ? .I should not mention those things for they divide us, but what does not , is that both “churches” speak of Jesus as our Savior , with heaven to come, because of His Blood. That is catholic/universal.

Said, 'to study Church history is to cease to be protestant."

Where you sit is where you stand on this issue. We differ on scripture views , why shouldn’t we differ on early writing views, and we do. Sorry , I read history and see evolution from truth, the good ,the bad ,the ugly.

you want to know, understand what the Catholic church teaches? Study catholic Church writings.

Yes, this will help in understanding.

Then someday you may beat me  the to the punch!  Right now you're swinging and missing!    Words are a power, be careful what you repeat as Truth without looking up its source... Be  a Borean!

I can also hang out a lot in my garage , but it won’t make me an automobile.Studying can be quite vain if one is not born again. Indeed I am a liar -miss the mark , BUT if by chance or design I am graced to say anything truthful, it is only by and thru Him. Furthermore , at times it is thru people that indeed He sheds light on my errors. Iron sharpens iron.Thank-you.

would you consider allowing abortions a freedom or depravity?

I am all for freedom for life, not for death . This is good , but this same church was bad when decreeing against God-given liberties a hundred years earlier. Of course as today the evil act takes on “light” as in calling it “choice”, yesterday the church justified it’s 'light " as “unity,purity”.

The Catholic Church is protecting the unborn innocent right to live, while Protestants are for or silent of Abortion, Our gov’t does not see the unborn as persons at all!

I will partially let this slide because the cause is God’s , but according to catholic radio, protestants were a bit late getting on board as compared to catholics ,but they are fully on board now(since 80’s ?) .Makes me wonder what churches you attended as a protestant, and names (Lutheran /Baptist) mean little, just as one priest can be quite dynamic and filled with God and the next one not as much.
God bless,

 

[david_ruiz]

You saw nothing specific, or is it that any depravity can be brushed off one way or another ? For starters we were talking of arresting and confiscating property of non-catholics in Germany in the late 1500’s, who were allowed to be non-catholics for a generation ,living peacefully ? Do you condone their actions against the “lutherans” ? Remember , the road to hell is paved with good intentions. If forbidding freedom of religion/freedom of conscience, vernacular bibles , bible societies, as in 1800’s, was OK , why did Rome change her position ?(reminds me of a Jesuit who almost cursed the bible because of his perceived misuse of it, the cause of so much trouble/reformers /protetstants).

 

[John_oxios]

?(reminds me of a Jesuit who almost cursed the bible because of his perceived misuse of it, the cause of so much trouble/reformers /protetstants).

 

[John_oxios]

You saw nothing specific, or is it that any depravity can be brushed off one way or another ? For starters we were talking of arresting and confiscating property of non-catholics in Germany in the late 1500’s, who were allowed to be non-catholics for a generation ,living peacefully ? Do you condone their actions against the “lutherans” ? Remember , the road to hell is paved with good intentions. If forbidding freedom of religion/freedom of conscience, vernacular bibles , bible societies, as in 1800’s, was OK , why did Rome change her position ?(reminds me of a Jesuit who almost cursed the bible because of his perceived misuse of it, the cause of so much trouble/reformers /protetstants).

 

[John_oxios]

There was a thread -timeline of church- where we looked at early church writings.I only read up to about 130 A.D. I found most writings to be quite catholic, that is universal, in that the precepts were common to both Catholics and Protestants.That is, very little mention of transubstantiation or even an sacrificial offering, or Mary, or of any head bishop (pope), or of any “confessional” ,purgatory, praying to/with deceased saints. The fact is everything we have in common as faith , is apostolic.

Hello David Ruiz,
Phl 2:3 Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility count others better than yourselves.

well? I suggest you (a) read beyond 130 a.d. if you only read up to 130 a.d. then who’s fault is that.

If the time-line only went up to 130 a.d. ask yourself who wrote it and why?

There are some protestant/ evangelical groups who’d like people to believe that Christ’s Church fell in apostasy mid 2nd century and that the Reformation was to correct that apostasy.

But this is a topic of this forum is that Some people think Protestantism is the same religion as Catholicism.

For Christ Real Presence in the Eucharist Scripture says:

Jhn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh."

Jhn 6:52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

Jhn 6:66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.

Jhn 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life;

Paul writes:

1Cr 11:23 - 29 * For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread,

and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, **"This is **my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."

In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."

For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.

Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.*

I don’t know what your non-demoniational congregation thinks about the Eucharist, But how can eating a mere piece of bread in an unworthy manner bring Judgment upon oneself?

How can you eat bread in an unworthy manner? dunk it in coffee, Butter it too much?

The Eucharist is Consecrated by the Priest through the Holy Spirit in persona Christi

Is Baptism of God or men?
read your Bible:
Baptism saves you! (1Peter 3:21) The faith your parents brought you up saves you! Until you come of age then it becomes your choice how you live or choose to believe.
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith,** one** baptism

Did you leave the Church because someone simply knocked on your door and fed you Gossip instead of Truth?

Catholics are saved, their being saved (everyday) and they hope to be saved!

Salvation is a process that has to be lived not just accepted.

No where in the Bible does it say You are saved by confessing with your lips Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior’ alone.

Looked up your profile, Grandkids? Mozoltov!

A non-congregation faith, since 21, yet you still use old arguments against the Church, even with a Roman Catholic background, I was an altar boy @ Good Shepherd Church, inwood park Manhattan, ny] also when the Mass was said in Latin. It seem you haven’t evolved spiritually, just stuck.

I got a brother, hates the Church also, Why? because he believes books like Angels and Demons, ‘the Da Vinci Code,’ he’s become an anti- Pope type,
However having a pension from retiring from the air-force, and self employed computer geek, I recently found out He became a member of the Knights of Columbus? In fact he’s been in longer than me? He subjected himself to the knights and put his beliefs aside what for an annuity? That kind of faith or anti faith is no faith , but a convenience, it’s sacrificed too easily.

God bless,
John