Protestants: Are people in heaven aware of what happens here?

[Daniel_Marsh]

if we have a CNN, so do they.

If they can get CNN in heaven, then I rather go to Hell.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The common belief among Protestants is that no, those in Heaven are removed from the goings on here below. How could they not be? Seeing the suffering of loved ones on Earth would rob them of the complete joy of heaven.

But as one (or at least as a former) Protestant I see much evidence, well cited above, that this view is uninformed. Scripture doesn’t say definatively, but some pretty big hints are dropped.

Only if you take texts like Rev 6, Heb 12 out of context.

Fact is, Heaven is a place, Jesus said so, John 14

Heaven is Far off, Isa 33:17, Job 22:12, Psa 113: 5

ONLY God looks down from heaven, Psa 33:13-14, 102:19. 14:2

Bottom line, by making saints able to look down from heaven you are making them out to be gods, thus idol worship.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

My personal belief and experience tells me that yes, people in heaven can be aware of what happens on earth.

My mother thinks no… I think yes…

Hopefully we will find out for ourselves one day!

God forbids contact with the “dead”, so if you are having “experiences” with those who have passed on then you are in serious sin that will send one to hell.

I am defining death, with James 2:26 simply seperation of body and soul.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi,

Matthew 22:
31 And as for the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was said to you by God,
32 `I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."
33 And when the crowd heard it, they were astonished at his teaching.

Also. Rev.6:10- 11 they cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before thou wilt judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell upon the earth?”
11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

Then there’s the transfiguration. Mark 9; 2-9.

Peace, OneNow1

Right non of your proof texts proves that those in heaven have direct knowledge of what is going on on earth.

When we protestants us the word “dead” your apologestist are being dishonest in claiming that we think that those in heaven ceased to exist. By playing that red heriing you lose comeplete respect by us. We define death as James does, simply seperation of body and spirit. So, we argee that the souls or spirits of abraham and company are alive in the sense that they exist. The transfiguration does not prove even those in the transfiguration had any knowledge of what is going on on earth at This Time.

As I pointed out Rev 6, those IMMATURE people who are calling for REVENGE on those who killed them are simply going by their memories of what transpired when they were killed.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Ah, no one in Rev 6 is praying for a christian at all. they being immature persons are calling for revenge.

Hebrrews 4:16 says we here on earth have front door access to heaven, throne of God.

Rom 8 and in Hebrews we are taught that Jesus and the Holy Spirit himself are praying for us. How can any “saints” prayer be more powerful than God himself?

Romans 8:26-27 (King James Version)

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is** Christ **that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Hebrews 7:25
Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

We as protestants have God himself, ( Christ and Holy Spirit ) praying for us. Why on earth would we want inferrior prayers of humans, who can not search our beings, hearts take God’s place in our life?

 

[justasking4]

Actually fallen asleep is a term that just means the person died. It gives no indication of their after-life condition, which we have already established in this thread includes an awareness of activity on earth.

Actually it has not been established but assumed. Even you would have to admit that you have no way to know with any certainty whether that catholic is in heaven, purgatory or hell.
Can a catholic hear in purgatory for example? What does the church teach?

 

[water]

We as protestants have God himself, ( Christ and Holy Spirit ) praying for us. Why on earth would we want inferrior prayers of humans, who can not search our beings, hearts take God’s place in our life?

Don’t tell me no protestant ever ask anyone to pray for us. If Jesus allowed his disciples to heal the sick, cast out demons, etc …, then what really stops Him to allow those in Heaven from working for Him.

Could you prove that Jesus couldn’t grant them the ability to pray for us as He allows us to pray for each others here on Earth?

Don’t limit what Jesus could do through His people.

 

[AngelsAmongUs]

Only if you take texts like Rev 6, Heb 12 out of context.

Fact is, Heaven is a place, Jesus said so, John 14

Heaven is Far off, Isa 33:17, Job 22:12, Psa 113: 5

ONLY God looks down from heaven, Psa 33:13-14, 102:19. 14:2

Bottom line, by making saints able to look down from heaven you are making them out to be gods, thus idol worship.

What about the rich man and Lazarus? “The rich man also died and was buried, and from the netherworld, where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.”

Now, I think we are all familiar with the story, but my point is that Abraham and Lazarus (whom we know are not on earth) knew very well what was going on from “far off.” Was Abraham behaving as a god for looking down from where he sits? Now granted he is looking down into hell, but nonetheless he was looking down. Does that make him some sort of god?

 

[justasking4]

water;2814334]Don’t tell me no protestant ever ask anyone to pray for us. If Jesus allowed his disciples to heal the sick, cast out demons, etc …, then what really stops Him to allow those in Heaven from working for Him.

Death and the mere fact the scriptures never teach such a thing. it does teach that Jesus alone is our Mediator and High priest who intercedes for us. In the heavenly realm there is never any exhortation for those who have died to intercede for us. Jesus alone is sufficent.

Could you prove that Jesus couldn’t grant them the ability to pray for us as He allows us to pray for each others here on Earth?

i suppose He could but its up to you that He actually has. Certainly the scriptures never teach this.

Don’t limit what Jesus could do through His people.

Its not wise to go beyond what is written and make doctrines and practices on speculations.

 

[coleraine]

yes, i think they do. look, we can pray to them cant we? and tell them whatever we want? well they then therefore would know whats going on down here.

 

[justasking4]

yes, i think they do. look, we can pray to them cant we? and tell them whatever we want? well they then therefore would know whats going on down here.

You have to assume this and that does not mean its true. Even though your assumption sounds reasonable that does not mean its true. There is no evidence for it in the Scriptures. The only One Who knows whats “going on here” is Christ. We know this because scripture teaches this.

 

[water]

Death and the mere fact the scriptures never teach such a thing. it does teach that Jesus alone is our Mediator and High priest who intercedes for us. In the heavenly realm there is never any exhortation for those who have died to intercede for us. Jesus alone is sufficent.

i suppose He could but its up to you that He actually has. Certainly the scriptures never teach this.

Its not wise to go beyond what is written and make doctrines and practices on speculations.

It is true that Jesus is our Mediator, but He never stops anyone praying for someone, does he? When you ask your family members to pray for you, does this mean you take Jesus out of your life? No!

If you ask your family on Earth to pray for you, then I ask my family not only on Earth but also in Heaven to pray to God for me. Those in Heaven knows Jesus is also their Mediator, but they themselves are not our Mediator.

St. John says that there are things that is not written down in the Scriptures; however, we are not going to limit the job of the Holy Spirit who helps us understand more.

 

[justasking4]

water;2814643]It is true that Jesus is our Mediator, but He never stops anyone praying for someone, does he?

Where does He teach such a thing?

When you ask your family members to pray for you, does this mean you take Jesus out of your life? No!

True

If you ask your family on Earth to pray for you, then I ask my family not only on Earth but also in Heaven to pray to God for me. Those in Heaven knows Jesus is also their Mediator, but they themselves are not our Mediator.

You don’t know this. In fact the scriptures are clear that those who have died in Christ are asleep.

St. John says that there are things that is not written down in the Scriptures; however, we are not going to limit the job of the Holy Spirit who helps us understand more.

The verse in John doesn’t help you since we don’t know exactly what that was. Secondly, how do you know if your understanding is correct if the scriptures never taught such a thing to begin with? Anyone can claim the HS gave them a deeper understanding. The cults do that all the time. What we want to look at are the reasons given. If you are going to use scripture then you have to uderstand the context. If the context does not work then you will have to go eleswhere.

 

[sharonh28]

It sounds to me as if many of the answers here, even though they are based on biblical quotations, just seem so “human”. As far as we know of any real facts of heaven. 1. We will be in the Presence of God 2. Our bodies will be restored wholly perfect at the Final Judgement.

When our souls go to heaven - they don’t take our bodies with them…do they take our minds? Is the total joy of being in God’s presence added to or diminished by awareness of what is happening on earth?

Heaven and Eternity are not of this earth so I think it is impossible to even answer this question. When I was in 2nd grade, a little boy in our class asked our young priest if his dog, who had just died, would be with him in heaven. The priest’s answer was very good and has given me my view of heaven for the last 50+ years. He said: JImmy, if having your dog with you in heaven is part of the plan for your eternal happiness, I’m sure your dog will be with you in heaven. In the context of our eternal happiness = being in the presence of God, all other questions seem moot.

 

[justasking4]

It sounds to me as if many of the answers here, even though they are based on biblical quotations, just seem so “human”. As far as we know of any real facts of heaven. 1. We will be in the Presence of God 2. Our bodies will be restored wholly perfect at the Final Judgement.

When our souls go to heaven - they don’t take our bodies with them…do they take our minds? Is the total joy of being in God’s presence added to or diminished by awareness of what is happening on earth?

Heaven and Eternity are not of this earth so I think it is impossible to even answer this question. When I was in 2nd grade, a little boy in our class asked our young priest if his dog, who had just died, would be with him in heaven. The priest’s answer was very good and has given me my view of heaven for the last 50+ years. He said: JImmy, if having your dog with you in heaven is part of the plan for your eternal happiness, I’m sure your dog will be with you in heaven. In the context of our eternal happiness = being in the presence of God, all other questions seem moot.

If a catholic can’t really answer the this question is it then appropiate to pray to the saints who are supposedly in heaven?

 

[Tweety]

God forbids contact with the “dead”, so if you are having “experiences” with those who have passed on then you are in serious sin that will send one to hell.

I am defining death, with James 2:26 simply seperation of body and soul.

No, i am not having “experiences” with those who have passed on. I wrote that from my personal belief and experience I believe that people in heaven* can*** be aware of what happens on earth.

I never wrote that i know for sure that they are, nor did i write that i communicate with the dead!

God knows my heart and my life experiences. HE will be my judge.

 

[BarbG]

I do believe STRONGLY that the people in Heaven are very much aware of what is going on here – on Earth. My husband passed away nearly 7 years ago and I go fairly often to the cemetery. My oldest son retired after spending 28 in the Army JAG Corps and was looking for another job. When I went to the cemetery I asked my husband to please talk to God and help him get Mike a job – believe it or not, my son called me the next day and told me he had TWO job offers!!! I do believe strongly that my husband did talk to God about his son.

 

[water]

The verse in John doesn’t help you since we don’t know exactly what that was. Secondly, how do you know if your understanding is correct if the scriptures never taught such a thing to begin with? Anyone can claim the HS gave them a deeper understanding. The cults do that all the time. What we want to look at are the reasons given. If you are going to use scripture then you have to uderstand the context. If the context does not work then you will have to go eleswhere.

If you don’t know exactly then what makes you think the Saints can’t hear you? Let’s hear those whom prayers have been answered over hundred of years by the intercession of the Saints.

The Catholic is not a cult but the Church established by Jesus Himself. I don’t come up with my own interpretation as I have seen in other Christian groups.

 

[sharonh28]

I didn’t mean to say that it is impossible for those who have passed on to be aware of us. I’m just saying that I don’t think it is for us to know and if we know we can only know in a very human way. I still talk with my father who died almost 40 years ago and also have a special affinity for St. Anthony, who seemed to ignore me when I was younger but has been much more charitable in interceding for me now that I am older and have more lost objects that can be imagined. I am only saying that as souls, it is our soul’s mission in life to know love and serve God in this world and to be happy with him in the next…That is all there is. When the apostles were told to leave all of their posessions behind, I’m sure they still took family members with them and loved their family members very much. However, in following Christ, it is the soul that came into this earth knowing no one, yet born to a yearning for our Divine Father. The Saints we pray to intercede for us…we usually associate them with a particular gift that God gave to them. I do believe they intercede for us, we even pray to the souls in purgatory who have not yet attained perfection, hoping that when they do arrive in heaven they may intercede for us. My only point is that once our souls are one with our Creator, I believe that we will be much more occupied with praising God than with keeping up with the day to day happenings here on earth. As I have gotten older I think more of Eternity and what a blink of an eye our existance on earth is. In two or three generations our “persona” if not our names will not be of importance here on earth. How wonderful to think that we have been of so much importance to God that he will be our happiness throughout eternity…and if it takes our being aware of the goings on on earth and us getting His ear to help out our loved ones still on earth…that is what He will give us. I’m just saying that we here on earth need that more than those who are in the Divine Presence.

 

[AngelsAmongUs]

If a catholic can’t really answer the this question is it then appropiate to pray to the saints who are supposedly in heaven?

Okay well I’ll try to answer the question. I pulled this from biblechristiansociety.com but I’m condensing it a bit.

Every Christian is a member of the Body of Christ; Rom 12:4-5, 1 Cor 12:12-13

And physical death does not separate us from the Body of Christ; Rom 8:38-39

Therefore those who have died and who have gone to heaven before us does not cease being part of the body.

Read also 1 Cor 12:12-26. I’ll just quote the last two verses: " so that there may be no division in the body, but that the parts may have the same concern for one another. If one part suffers, all the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, all the parts share its joy."

Make of that what you will, but the Catholic thinking on this is not out of left field and is in fact biblical. Now, you may have a different interpretation of the verses you have been referenced, but I think it is safe to say that your interpretation is not infallible.

Now, I would also like to paint you a picture so to speak. Let’s say a mother loses her child and she desperately misses her child and visits the grave side often. At the grave side she talks to her child because it gives her some peace to do so. I know Protestants to do this as well. Do you honestly believe God will damn this poor mother to hell because she speaks to her child and longs to be able to see her child again? Even if you do not agree the child can hear her mother, it doesn’t make it wrong for this poor mother to sit and talk to her baby. This is not the makings of an occult practice. And if you don’t know the difference then please educate yourself on the matter.