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CarolNoel
Guest
"Wonderful and Happy and Blessed Easter.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I think it’s different things for different sorts of people. I’m in the Bible Belt. We have a significant number of adults received into the Church every year in my parish. Most of them are from Fundamentalist churches; some Evangelicals.
In talking to some of them, it always comes to the same thing. Fundamentalists are always in search of a way to “be close to Jesus”. The Eucharist is exactly that, in a way that’s unattainable otherwise. You ask most of them and the Eucharist is what they talk about.
Among the few “mainline” converts I have known, the major responses are “clarity”, “certainty”, “order”, and some, of course, have studied history.
Of possible interest, though I have said it on other threads. Flannery O’Connor said two things about Southern Fundamentalists. First, she said that most would be very surprised to discover that the Catholic Church comes much closer to what they believe than does classic Protestantism. The second thing she said was that she eventually expected the richest ground for conversions in the U.S. would someday be among Southern Fundamentalists.
That’s not to say that others, in other places, and with other backgrounds, don’t convert for very different reasons. But that’s my local observation.
In talking to some of them, it always comes to the same thing. Fundamentalists are always in search of a way to “be close to Jesus”. The Eucharist is exactly that, in a way that’s unattainable otherwise. You ask most of them and the Eucharist is what they talk about.
Among the few “mainline” converts I have known, the major responses are “clarity”, “certainty”, “order”, and some, of course, have studied history.
Of possible interest, though I have said it on other threads. Flannery O’Connor said two things about Southern Fundamentalists. First, she said that most would be very surprised to discover that the Catholic Church comes much closer to what they believe than does classic Protestantism. The second thing she said was that she eventually expected the richest ground for conversions in the U.S. would someday be among Southern Fundamentalists.
That’s not to say that others, in other places, and with other backgrounds, don’t convert for very different reasons. But that’s my local observation.
C
Cat
Guest
My husband and I (and our grown daughter) are converts to Catholicism from Evangelical Protestantism.
I grew up in an Evangelical church pastored and led by several Evangelicals whose names would be instantly recognizable by serious Evangelicals (e.g. Evelyn Christenson, John Ortberg, Gary Smalley, etc.) I say this only to prove that I was well-taught and educated in the very best of Evangelical Protestant theology. I’m not one of those Protestants who knows only a few verses of Scripture and a lot of Gospel hymns.
As awful as it sounds, I believe that the Holy Spirit has used legalized abortion to bring a whole lot of Evangelicals into the Catholic Church.
Until Roe vs. Wade, there really wasn’t a lot of interaction between Catholics and Protestants. Quite the opposite, actually. There were huge walls that separated “Catholic” and “Evangelical Protestant.” Over the years, more and more Evangelical Protestants became convinced that Catholicism was a “cult” or “not truly Christian.”
Then came legalized abortion.
Who were the first ones to march onto the battlefield and cry out for the repeal of this dreadful law that made it legal to kill innocent people?
The Catholic Church.
I was a young teenager in 1972, and I fully remember a lot of the discussions in my Evangelical Protestant church about abortion. My pastor’s wife taught our class of teenaged girls, and our conclusion in that class was that it was more merciful and charitable for babies to be aborted than to face a life of abuse, poverty, and despair.
Yes, feel free to gasp in horror!
But we Evangelical Protestants were so terribly naive of the real world. We actually thought that abortion was so rare that it wouldn’t even be an issue worth worrying about. And of course, there was wide-spread thought that the Catholic Church wasn’t really a “New Testament, Bible church,” so their stance on abortion really didn’t mean anything to “real” Christians.
Evangelical Protestants slept through the first few years of legalized abortion in the U.S., and most of us thought that Roe vs. Wade referred to some kind of boxing match.
At around this same time, noted Evangelicals Tim and Beverly LaHaye (yes, the same Tim LaHaye who co-authored the “Left Behind” series) wrote a book that rocketed to the top of the best-seller list among Evangelical Protestants. The book was The Act of Marriage. It was a sex manual for Christians, and just like 50 Shades of Gray is now, the LaHaye’s “racy” book was read by everybody, especially those who called themselves “Evangelical”.
Many of the Christian women that I knew back then said, with much blushing, that they couldn’t read the book because they found it “too arousing.” (Nowadays, the book seems quaint and juvenile compared to the sex that we see on prime time television in shows targeted to teens!)
In the first edition of the book, the LaHayes make a statement to the effect that sometimes abortion is a better alternative than bringing a child into a world where the child will face abuse or danger.
Again, feel free to gasp.
Finally, though, Evangelical Protestants started waking up, primarily because of Dr. James Dobson and his radio show, Focus on the Family.
I know that a lot of Catholics are suspicious of Dr. Dobson because he advocates spanking of children. They think that he is anti-Catholic or that he teaches things that are in opposition to Catholicism.
I ask all Catholics to please keep in mind that back in the 1970s, Dr. Dobson was the SOLE well-known Evangelical Protestant speaking up loudly and clearly in opposition to abortion, ALL abortion, and in doing this, he pitted himself against such heavies as the LaHayes. He did not back down, and he did not make “exceptions” for “rape, incest, or distress to the mother.” He could have lost everything–his radio show, his publishing contracts, his speaking engagements, his job, and his good reputation among Evangelical Protestants.
But he stood firm against all forms of abortion, and taught that Christians could never, ever support abortion. Remember that next time you hear a Catholic rant against Dr. Dobson. Who knows how many people are alive today because Dr. Dobson sounded the warning against abortion to Evangelicals?
Then another Evangelical Protestant voice started speakingup–believe it or not, Keith Green and his little Texas headquarters called “Last Days Ministries.” Now Keith Green certainly never had anything good to say about Catholicism! But LDM published several graphic and highly-disturbing pamphlets describing exactly what happened during the various kinds of abortion available back in the 1970s, and WHY abortion was a grave evil and an abomination.
Dr. Dobson spoke more to the adults, especially young parents. Keith Green and LDM spoke to the teens and collegiates.
And between the two of them, they finally managed to wake up the Evangelical Protestants. More and more Evangelical Protestants started studying the issue, and recognizing that sin had been made legal in the U.S.
In the 2nd edition of The Act of Marriage, the LaHayes stated that ALL abortion is wrong! So the word was getting around the Evangelical world!
Then Evangelicals started doing what Evangelicals are best at–working hard. Doing stuff. Taking action. Getting involved. Reaching out. Committing themselves to a pro-life ministry.
And that meant interacting with C-C-C-Catholics! Yikes!!!
(Continued next post)
I grew up in an Evangelical church pastored and led by several Evangelicals whose names would be instantly recognizable by serious Evangelicals (e.g. Evelyn Christenson, John Ortberg, Gary Smalley, etc.) I say this only to prove that I was well-taught and educated in the very best of Evangelical Protestant theology. I’m not one of those Protestants who knows only a few verses of Scripture and a lot of Gospel hymns.
As awful as it sounds, I believe that the Holy Spirit has used legalized abortion to bring a whole lot of Evangelicals into the Catholic Church.
Until Roe vs. Wade, there really wasn’t a lot of interaction between Catholics and Protestants. Quite the opposite, actually. There were huge walls that separated “Catholic” and “Evangelical Protestant.” Over the years, more and more Evangelical Protestants became convinced that Catholicism was a “cult” or “not truly Christian.”
Then came legalized abortion.
Who were the first ones to march onto the battlefield and cry out for the repeal of this dreadful law that made it legal to kill innocent people?
The Catholic Church.
I was a young teenager in 1972, and I fully remember a lot of the discussions in my Evangelical Protestant church about abortion. My pastor’s wife taught our class of teenaged girls, and our conclusion in that class was that it was more merciful and charitable for babies to be aborted than to face a life of abuse, poverty, and despair.
Yes, feel free to gasp in horror!
But we Evangelical Protestants were so terribly naive of the real world. We actually thought that abortion was so rare that it wouldn’t even be an issue worth worrying about. And of course, there was wide-spread thought that the Catholic Church wasn’t really a “New Testament, Bible church,” so their stance on abortion really didn’t mean anything to “real” Christians.
Evangelical Protestants slept through the first few years of legalized abortion in the U.S., and most of us thought that Roe vs. Wade referred to some kind of boxing match.
At around this same time, noted Evangelicals Tim and Beverly LaHaye (yes, the same Tim LaHaye who co-authored the “Left Behind” series) wrote a book that rocketed to the top of the best-seller list among Evangelical Protestants. The book was The Act of Marriage. It was a sex manual for Christians, and just like 50 Shades of Gray is now, the LaHaye’s “racy” book was read by everybody, especially those who called themselves “Evangelical”.
Many of the Christian women that I knew back then said, with much blushing, that they couldn’t read the book because they found it “too arousing.” (Nowadays, the book seems quaint and juvenile compared to the sex that we see on prime time television in shows targeted to teens!)
In the first edition of the book, the LaHayes make a statement to the effect that sometimes abortion is a better alternative than bringing a child into a world where the child will face abuse or danger.
Again, feel free to gasp.
Finally, though, Evangelical Protestants started waking up, primarily because of Dr. James Dobson and his radio show, Focus on the Family.
I know that a lot of Catholics are suspicious of Dr. Dobson because he advocates spanking of children. They think that he is anti-Catholic or that he teaches things that are in opposition to Catholicism.
I ask all Catholics to please keep in mind that back in the 1970s, Dr. Dobson was the SOLE well-known Evangelical Protestant speaking up loudly and clearly in opposition to abortion, ALL abortion, and in doing this, he pitted himself against such heavies as the LaHayes. He did not back down, and he did not make “exceptions” for “rape, incest, or distress to the mother.” He could have lost everything–his radio show, his publishing contracts, his speaking engagements, his job, and his good reputation among Evangelical Protestants.
But he stood firm against all forms of abortion, and taught that Christians could never, ever support abortion. Remember that next time you hear a Catholic rant against Dr. Dobson. Who knows how many people are alive today because Dr. Dobson sounded the warning against abortion to Evangelicals?
Then another Evangelical Protestant voice started speakingup–believe it or not, Keith Green and his little Texas headquarters called “Last Days Ministries.” Now Keith Green certainly never had anything good to say about Catholicism! But LDM published several graphic and highly-disturbing pamphlets describing exactly what happened during the various kinds of abortion available back in the 1970s, and WHY abortion was a grave evil and an abomination.
Dr. Dobson spoke more to the adults, especially young parents. Keith Green and LDM spoke to the teens and collegiates.
And between the two of them, they finally managed to wake up the Evangelical Protestants. More and more Evangelical Protestants started studying the issue, and recognizing that sin had been made legal in the U.S.
In the 2nd edition of The Act of Marriage, the LaHayes stated that ALL abortion is wrong! So the word was getting around the Evangelical world!
Then Evangelicals started doing what Evangelicals are best at–working hard. Doing stuff. Taking action. Getting involved. Reaching out. Committing themselves to a pro-life ministry.
And that meant interacting with C-C-C-Catholics! Yikes!!!
(Continued next post)
C
Cat
Guest
(continued from last post)
For it was the Catholics who had already pioneered the early pro-life activities and ministries and set them up and had them running.
That meant that often, when a “pro-life” seminar was held in a local church, a C-C-Catholic was invited to speak! Sometimes, even a p-p-p-priest!!
And we had to t-t-talk with these C-Catholics! And get to know them. And pray with them. And work with them.
And when Evangelicals went to pro-life rallies and marches and protests, more often than not, they found themselves marching next to a C-Catholic!
And the more they got involved with pro-life work, the more Evangelicals realized that Catholics ARE Christians!
And IMO, that’s how it all got started. The walls between Catholics and Protestants have been obliterated by the abortion issue. The Holy Spirit has brought some good out of great evil.
And here’s the thing–Evangelicals really DO know their Bibles. Don’t be fooled by Catholics who try to tell you that most Evangelicals only know a few verses. That’s not true at all. I had entire books of the Bible memorized, and by the time I was 18, I had read the Bible cover to cover many times. I had studied almost every book in the Bible, including those Minor Prophets (Hosea, Joel, Amos, etc.)
And when someone who knows their Bible encounters the Catholic Church, they can’t help but recognize that the Church is totally, utterly Biblical. In fact, attending the Catholic Mass (OF, in the vernacular) is like experiencing the Bible live. It’s a real shocker to Evangelical Protestants.
And since Evangelicals base their Christianity on the Bible alone, when they encounter the Catholic Church, which is the Bible come-to-life, they have to make a choice–IF they want to continue to claim to be “authentic” Christians they must become Catholic Christians.
For it was the Catholics who had already pioneered the early pro-life activities and ministries and set them up and had them running.
That meant that often, when a “pro-life” seminar was held in a local church, a C-C-Catholic was invited to speak! Sometimes, even a p-p-p-priest!!
And we had to t-t-talk with these C-Catholics! And get to know them. And pray with them. And work with them.
And when Evangelicals went to pro-life rallies and marches and protests, more often than not, they found themselves marching next to a C-Catholic!
And the more they got involved with pro-life work, the more Evangelicals realized that Catholics ARE Christians!
And IMO, that’s how it all got started. The walls between Catholics and Protestants have been obliterated by the abortion issue. The Holy Spirit has brought some good out of great evil.
And here’s the thing–Evangelicals really DO know their Bibles. Don’t be fooled by Catholics who try to tell you that most Evangelicals only know a few verses. That’s not true at all. I had entire books of the Bible memorized, and by the time I was 18, I had read the Bible cover to cover many times. I had studied almost every book in the Bible, including those Minor Prophets (Hosea, Joel, Amos, etc.)
And when someone who knows their Bible encounters the Catholic Church, they can’t help but recognize that the Church is totally, utterly Biblical. In fact, attending the Catholic Mass (OF, in the vernacular) is like experiencing the Bible live. It’s a real shocker to Evangelical Protestants.
And since Evangelicals base their Christianity on the Bible alone, when they encounter the Catholic Church, which is the Bible come-to-life, they have to make a choice–IF they want to continue to claim to be “authentic” Christians they must become Catholic Christians.
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Miriam1947
Guest
Great post, Cat. 
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Elliepfiz
Guest
To any who have never been Protestant Cats post was spot on. I too have experienced the same teachings in Protestant churches, and teachings, Except for the fact that I attended at a later age so I didn’t witness the abortion issues.
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benjohnson
Guest
I will say that here in Seattle, we Lutherans are becoming becoming less afraid of thing we used to associate as exclusively Catholic - we’re no longer afraid of the BVM, the confessional, and the crucifix.
But even more importantly, that after a disastrous archbishop in the 70’s and 80’s that the Catholics here are are becoming Catholic.
But even more importantly, that after a disastrous archbishop in the 70’s and 80’s that the Catholics here are are becoming Catholic.
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Hamlet123
Guest
FYI: Luther died saying the rosary and asking for a priest
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Indifferently
Guest
I thought he died shortly following a stroke, which most assuredly deprived him of his speech?
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Hamlet123
Guest
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benjohnson
Guest
Interesting… that sounds like a good and hopeful way to go!
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paulrxp
Guest
I too was surprised at the number of convert testimonies on YouTube. I really pay attention to their reasons, I’m very impressed not just by their strong faith, but also how intellectual and well thought out their reasons were. So many converted without the blessings of their family and friends, and you feel for how torn they must be, but respect their sacrifice to try to find Gods truth. I’d argue these Catholic converts are more Catholic than many cradle Catholics I know. They are really to be admired and respected.
I believe the word ‘change’ has a lot to do with it. For me personally, I think of all the things that have come and gone in my life the past 40+ years. Relatives that have passed away, friends, classmates, relationships achievements, places and things. No one can resist change and time,especially in our progressive and secular society. While there have been slight changes with the Church, something sacred like the Eucharist is timeless. As a kid, I thought the consecration was just a reenactment. Later on, when I really thought about it, it struck me about what I was witnessing. The sacrifice of Jesus was not fused by a moment of time, because God has no beginning or end, what I see on that alter on Sunday is the body and blood of Jesus, at 40, at 8 and nearly 2000 years later, it’s as true today as it was back then, it’s untouched by change, constant, yet perpetual I don’t know anywhere on Earth where I’d witness that, certainly no other church, only the Church that God blessed us with.
[BIBLEDRB]matthew 28:20[/BIBLEDRB]
I believe the word ‘change’ has a lot to do with it. For me personally, I think of all the things that have come and gone in my life the past 40+ years. Relatives that have passed away, friends, classmates, relationships achievements, places and things. No one can resist change and time,especially in our progressive and secular society. While there have been slight changes with the Church, something sacred like the Eucharist is timeless. As a kid, I thought the consecration was just a reenactment. Later on, when I really thought about it, it struck me about what I was witnessing. The sacrifice of Jesus was not fused by a moment of time, because God has no beginning or end, what I see on that alter on Sunday is the body and blood of Jesus, at 40, at 8 and nearly 2000 years later, it’s as true today as it was back then, it’s untouched by change, constant, yet perpetual I don’t know anywhere on Earth where I’d witness that, certainly no other church, only the Church that God blessed us with.
[BIBLEDRB]matthew 28:20[/BIBLEDRB]
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adf417
Guest
Quite true Paul!“Change” is the name of the game. In this time of lent we are reminded of this change quite often but even outside of lent the Churche teaches how this change is just as important.
I too have thought about the “differences” in the conversions. There seems to be a complete disconnect in the reasons from one side to another. I wonder if anyone has done a study on this?
Peaced!!!
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guanophore
Guest
This is very true. It seems that America has adopted secular humanism as the national religion. It also seemed to have some very rapid and serious consequences. The fining of persons who do not wish to act against conscience is a wide and easy road to ruin.
Considering the direction some Lutheran synods are traveling, this might be the better choice.I know a Lutheran minister who had a son convert to Catholicism!
Or, the LCMS.
Jon
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Izdaari
Guest
So far as I’m concerned, it’s not a big deal, whichever way they go. I’m just happy if more people are Christians of any of the major traditions (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox). If they find a Christian church (not a cult) that works for them, I"m all for it.
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Hamlet123
Guest
I strongly suggest that one read John Martinonie’s current email entitled “Should Everyone Be Catholic”
I know I spelled his name wrong. Would someone out there in CA land correct it?
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aidanbradypop
Guest
LCMS is not very popular in these parts lolConsidering the direction some Lutheran synods are traveling, this might be the better choice.
Or, the LCMS.
Jon
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ffg
Guest
I love Seattle and miss it greatly.
I also love the Lutheran Church we send our kids to for pre-school. They do it right.
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benjohnson
Guest
Boo!
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