Protestants, can a Catholic Priest forgive sins?

[Crazy_Diamond]

And if I put an apple in front of you, you’d still insist it was a pear.

If we had a red fruit and a book on plant taxonomy in front of us, some traditional (not limited to Catholics) apologists would insist there were some canonical chapters that were missing from my version that would prove their point.

Others would say that it’s not necessary to cut the fruit open and show that it has apple-like seeds and not pear-like seeds to prove it is an apple, because they’ve heard all their lives in homilies that “apples are red,” and no doctor of the church ever talked about red pears. Smelling and tasting to test wouldn’t work, because only bishops and priests have the charism to accurately smell or taste fruit. Saying “it tastes like a pear” only shows that I need to get in communion with the Jesus’ True Church of Holy Taxonomy and accept its teaching.

Demands to take a look at the tree the fruit came from, to judge it in context, would be met with sneers. What does that matter, when you can see plainly the fruit is red? What bearing could the leaves, bark, or roots possibly have on concluding what sort of red fruit it is when “apples are red”?

Do apples even grow in this climate? (Does it fit the whole of Scripture?) What does it matter? The fruit is red, the tree is around here, why can’t you just accept the obvious?

Frankly, it’s because I’m an old fart and I’ve learned to be skeptical about strong claims and reddish fruits. Ufamtobie plunked a fruit down in front of us that isn’t even particularly reddish and demanded acceptance of its apple-nature due to its red color.

This sort of argument is hardly limited to Catholic fundamentalists. In response, some of us are just trying to explain that it takes more than red to make an apple.

 

[BrianH]

I too would ask where this passage talks about successors. If it includes successors, why does it only seem to apply in this case and not other instances where Jesus gave authority to His Apostles?

Do Catholic priests or bishops have the ability to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness? If so, why don’t they use it? If not, why should John 20:23 apply to successors any more than Matthew 10:1?

Well said. A unique point I have not read.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

If we had a red fruit and a book on plant taxonomy in front of us, some traditional (not limited to Catholics) apologists would insist there were some canonical chapters that were missing from my version that would prove their point.

Others would say that it’s not necessary to cut the fruit open and show that it has apple-like seeds and not pear-like seeds to prove it is an apple, because they’ve heard all their lives in homilies that “apples are red,” and no doctor of the church ever talked about red pears. Smelling and tasting to test wouldn’t work, because only bishops and priests have the charism to accurately smell or taste fruit. Saying “it tastes like a pear” only shows that I need to get in communion with the Jesus’ True Church of Holy Taxonomy and accept its teaching.

Demands to take a look at the tree the fruit came from, to judge it in context, would be met with sneers. What does that matter, when you can see plainly the fruit is red? What bearing could the leaves, bark, or roots possibly have on concluding what sort of red fruit it is when “apples are red”?

Do apples even grow in this climate? (Does it fit the whole of Scripture?) What does it matter? The fruit is red, the tree is around here, why can’t you just accept the obvious?

Frankly, it’s because I’m an old fart and I’ve learned to be skeptical about strong claims and reddish fruits. Ufamtobie plunked a fruit down in front of us that isn’t even particularly reddish and demanded acceptance of its apple-nature due to its red color.

This sort of argument is hardly limited to Catholic fundamentalists. In response, some of us are just trying to explain that it takes more than red to make an apple.

And this is exactly Protestanism in a mirror.

 

[Crazy_Diamond]

And this is exactly Protestanism in a mirror.

That’s why I set it up that way. You provided a beautiful straight line, though.

 

[Highwayhound]

This subject puzzles me, or more correctly people’s understanding of it puzzles me. As Christians we agree that Jesus established His church here on earth. No argument?

My question is then did Jesus intend for His church to continue? I say ‘yes’ because he told us to go make disciples of all nations. With the limitations of the day I have my doubts that Jesus intended this to be done in one lifetime.

Then if He intended to have His church continue what then was the mechanism for His church to continue? Surely something, some method was intended to act in sustaining His church. I cannot accept that my Lord and Savior the Son of God, one of the Trinity, would over look this critical detail. I cannot see Jesus up in heaven saying, “Doh! I should have told them to write “successor” in the New Testament.”; or “Well, I can just wait for Luther.” There had to be some action and purpose through lo these many generations.

For Catholics, Tradition and traditions fill in the gaps.

From a Catholic prospective there are no “gaps”. Nearly 2,000 years of succession have happened.

Protestants either don’t think the gaps need filling in or feel the gaps aren’t that big to begin with. Did the Apostles receive a special charism to forgive sins? Protestants who don’t think the gaps need filling would say “So what if they did? They’re gone, and other passages deal with what the rest of us are supposed to do.”

If the apostles did receive a special charism to forgive sins would you find that irrelevant or meaningful? The history of the apostles has meaning. What they did and who followed in their footsteps has meaning. In America we put great value on tradition and succession. Look at the Presidency and Supreme Court rulings for example. So, if these things are important then how much more so is the Traditions of Christ’s church.

In the end, of course, we’re all guilty of trying to force Scripture to say what we want, rather than letting it challenge what we’d like to say.

If this is so then it is a matter of people not humbling themselves before God. Humility is the key to so much of worship.

God bless.

 

[Peter_J]

If he goes out and repeats those sins and then go to confession to be absolved again, and again, Are those sins really forgiven?

The priest will take for granted that person is repentant because that person came to confession.

The priest will say, “Your sins are forgiven”, but are those sins really forgiven?

No. Therefore the priest has no power to forgive sins.

Hi Ginger,

The problem that you mentioned is a problem regardless of whether you believe in a “Sacrament of Reconciliation” or not.

A Protestant who doesn’t believe in confession can nevertheless say to himself “I’m going to go ahead and sin, and then afterward I’ll repent and God will forgive me.”

 

[Peter_J]

Thank you! I couldn’t have come up with a clearer example of how these arguments usually end up, or the pointlessness of continuing them.

He said
She said
And we can’t agree
On a referee

 

[Peter_J]

If we had a red fruit and a book on plant taxonomy in front of us, some traditional (not limited to Catholics) apologists would insist there were some canonical chapters that were missing from my version that would prove their point.

Others would say that it’s not necessary to cut the fruit open and show that it has apple-like seeds and not pear-like seeds to prove it is an apple, because they’ve heard all their lives in homilies that “apples are red,” and no doctor of the church ever talked about red pears. Smelling and tasting to test wouldn’t work, because only bishops and priests have the charism to accurately smell or taste fruit. Saying “it tastes like a pear” only shows that I need to get in communion with the Jesus’ True Church of Holy Taxonomy and accept its teaching.

Demands to take a look at the tree the fruit came from, to judge it in context, would be met with sneers. What does that matter, when you can see plainly the fruit is red? What bearing could the leaves, bark, or roots possibly have on concluding what sort of red fruit it is when “apples are red”?

Do apples even grow in this climate? (Does it fit the whole of Scripture?) What does it matter? The fruit is red, the tree is around here, why can’t you just accept the obvious?

Ohhhh dear!

But you’d have to explain why you’re on an Applic discussion forum, seeing as you’re a non-Applic (or worse, an anti-Applic).

 

[Crazy_Diamond]

Ohhhh dear!

But you’d have to explain why you’re on an Applic discussion forum, seeing as you’re a non-Applic (or worse, an anti-Applic).

Well, it’s a lot of fun, for one thing. I’m only a non-Applic, not an anti-Applic. My wife is quite the devout Applic. However, I respect all traditions that agree the fruit we’re looking at is of the Pomoideae subfamily of Roses, even those of the orthodox “it’s a quince” persuasion.

 

[Ginger2]

Hi Ginger,

The problem that you mentioned is a problem regardless of whether you believe in a “Sacrament of Reconciliation” or not.

A Protestant who doesn’t believe in confession can nevertheless say to himself “I’m going to go ahead and sin, and then afterward I’ll repent and God will forgive me.”

The difference is that God can see into your heart - the priest can’t. So when the Catholic priest says, “Your sins are forgiven” he is deceiving that Catholic - he is unwittingly telling a lie.

 

[ufamtobie]

The difference is that God can see into your heart - the priest can’t. So when the Catholic priest says, “Your sins are forgiven” he is deceiving that Catholic - he is unwittingly telling a lie.

Hi there Ginger, where is Gilligan and the Skipper too the Millionaire and his wife, the Movie star, the Professor and Marianne here on Catholic Island lol

Yes, true a Catholic Priest Can’t see into your heart, but yet Jesus Christ, Breathed the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles to forgive mens sins Right? …It says so in John (20: 22-23) that Jesus Christ gave this Sacrament.

Could the Apostles see into a mans heart when they forgave or retained a mans sins?

Ufamtobie

 

[excaliber]

I don’t understand the protestant position!!!
The Catholic way of interpretation
has over a billion people united in teaching.
The protestant way of interpretation has thousands of churches in disagreement, also the protestant view has opend the way
for any crazed mad man to start a cult and do great harm to people.

to answer the question just look at what the first Church taught. Not at what any tom **** or harry says that sounds good.

Can any protestant even find the true church in protestantism? no…because its not even possible to examine them all.

 

[SIA]

Weren’t you asking a question?

You know how these so called questions always go. They ask a question in the heading and it always turns out to be just another assult on those who do not share in their exact viewpoint.

 

[SIA]

I don’t understand the protestant position!!!
The Catholic way of interpretation
has over a billion people united in teaching.
The protestant way of interpretation has thousands of churches in disagreement, also the protestant view has opend the way
for any crazed mad man to start a cult and do great harm to people.

to answer the question just look at what the first Church taught. Not at what any tom **** or harry says that sounds good.

Can any protestant even find the true church in protestantism? no…because its not even possible to examine them all.

You are absolutely correct about one thing. You truly don’t understand.

 

[excaliber]

You are absolutely correct about one thing. You truly don’t understand.

Actualy I understand more then people may want to think. I was a member of a protestant denomination.

I believe protestants (that are aware of the Catholic church) are guilty of lowering the inteligence of Almighty God to that of imperfect man.

Protestants think they can do better then God. For example someone said that a priest can’t read hearts…do we realy think God was not aware of this and made a mistake.

LOL protestants use a Catholic book to tell Catholics what a priest can and canot do. We all know that non of the protestant churches were even around.

I think the point is Jesus made his Church important, he made it so we canot go and start our own churches successfully…not that we have not tried.

We need priests, we don’t need protestant leaders.We need the Catholic church.

 

[Reuben_J]

No. A priest cannot forgive sins any more than a layperson can.

God can see into a person’s heart, but a priest cannot.

If a person is confessing because he mistakenly believes he can sin all he wants and have those sins removed by a priest, Are his sins really forgiven?

If he goes out and repeats those sins and then go to confession to be absolved again, and again, Are those sins really forgiven?

The priest will take for granted that person is repentant because that person came to confession.

The priest will say, “Your sins are forgiven”, but are those sins really forgiven?

No. Therefore the priest has no power to forgive sins.

Agreed, a priest has no pwer to forgive sin. Only God can because sin is against God. But when we sin againt others, we need to ask them for forgiveness because of the wrongs we have done to them.

Confession is a mechanism where we can truly be absolved of our sins. It is just done that way so we do it that way.

And it does not mean that our sins will be forgiven in any confessions. If we go to confession for fun, certainly the sin is not forgiven. I would rather die after a good confession knowing that I am in a state of grace rather than die after making a personal confession in my heart and cannot be sure whether I do it right or not.

 

[ufamtobie]

You know how these so called questions always go. They ask a question in the heading and it always turns out to be just another assult on those who do not share in their exact viewpoint.

SIA
If you think that then why are you here?

The reason why Jesus Christ has you here is to learn the TRUTH! The Lord is still working on you Sia, you may think you have left the CHURCH, but deep down in your heart you want to come home and if its through this Catholic website then Blessed be GOD.

Ufamtobie

 

[ufamtobie]

I too would ask where this passage talks about successors. If it includes successors, why does it only seem to apply in this case and not other instances where Jesus gave authority to His Apostles?

Do Catholic priests or bishops have the ability to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness? If so, why don’t they use it? If not, why should John 20:23 apply to successors any more than Matthew 10:1?

Yes, Many Priests were given the gift of healing why don’t you read the life of the Saints stories such as St Francis, Padre Pio, St. John Bosco, St. Anthony of Padua…the list goes on and on of priest who have worked miracles like those done by the Apostles.

Jesus Christ gave the Apostles the authority to forgive mens sins.
should this forgivness of sin end with each Apostles death? NO!!!

If the forgivenss of sin ended with each Apostles Death then how can your sins and my sin be forgiven TODAY? How are we forgiven today is by the successors of the Apostles through the Holy Spirit this is done.

Jesus wants us all to go to His Church and ask for forgivness of our sins. The Bible says if you have a complaint with your brother and can’t settle it, then go to the church.

Ufamtobie

 

[Ginger2]

Agreed, a priest has no power to forgive sin…when we sin against others, we need to ask them for forgiveness because of the wrongs we have done to them.

Confession is a mechanism where we can truly be absolved of our sins. …

We agree!

Protestants go to the person we wronged and ask forgiveness - that is a lot more humbling then standing behind a screen where your identity is secret and cofessing to a priest.

Since we don’t know how the person we wronged will react. Face to face is humbling - then liberating.

The point is the priest can’t tell who is sincerely repentant and who is just going thru the motions because he thinks he gets a free pass for sinning.

Analogy:
Some Protestants think OSAS gives them a free pass to sin.
Some Catholics think the confessional gives them a free pass to sin.

The priest cannot see into the person’s heart. When the person confesses the priest assumes that person is sincere and “forgives his sins”.

But those sins are not forgiven. The confessor, in this instance, is being misled because he has placed his faith in a false doctrine instead of God’s Word:

Matthew 5:23-24 Therefore, if you bring your gift to the altar, and there recall that your brother has anything against you, leave your gift there at the altar, go first and be reconciled with your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

The difference is that God can see into your heart - the priest can’t. So when the Catholic priest says, “Your sins are forgiven” he is deceiving that Catholic - he is unwittingly telling a lie.

Oh please…Jesus Christ told his Apostle’s to do this, not anyone else. Obey your Creator.