D
DallasCatholic
Guest
Please, please, please don’t go there. Since you are a new member search the forums on “faith alone” and you will find plenty of reading material.
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K
Keikiolu
Guest
Rubish.
If you can make categorical statements, so can I. Do we agree on that?
Are you here seeking something, or not?
If so,… what?
Have a great day, Kaycee.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaika
i ia oe. Aloha nui.
Y
Yerusalyim
Guest
God is the judge, not us…we are told to carry the message, not try to decide who will and will not listen…and let the chips fall where they may.
K
kaycee
Guest
Offcourse.Rubish.
If you can make categorical statements, so can I. Do we agree on that?
I once was lost, but now I am found.
Lu 19:10
“For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost.”
To Glorify God!
Blessings to You!
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
You are familiar with the idea that Catholics believe we are saved by grace, correct?
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
That’s not who I was referring to. I thought you were speaking of all the “righteous pagans” who died prior to the incarnation.
I think Jesus met with them and offered them a chance to accept the Gospel between the time he died and the resurrection.
This is why we say in the creed, “He descended into Hell.”
Thoughts?
K
kaycee
Guest
Certainly, you are saved by baptismal regeneration, initially and must maintain your state of grace by works and the sacraments.
K
kaycee
Guest
Are you asking me to comment on what you think happend to the “righteous pagans”?
“There is no one good but God” What “righteous pagans”?
K
Keikiolu
Guest
Cool. Keep that up, then…!
Anything I can do to help,… just ask.
Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaika
i ia oe. Aloha nui.
K
Keikiolu
Guest
And you’re perfectly “saved” (guaranteed a heavenly seat), regardless of what you do, because you “believe”, right?
What is it that you “believe” again?
T
Tomster
Guest
Exactly ! ! !
The necessity of belonging to the Catholic Church in order to obtain salvation is a dogma based on the words our Lord himself: “Go ye into the whole world and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believes and baptised will be saved: but he that believes not shall be condemned.” (Mark 16:15-16) Here we must remark briefly upon the position of non-Catholics in good faith. That is to say, the much misunderstood doctrine of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus: “no salvation outside the Church.” Even such authorities as Suarez and the theologians of the Salamanca, writing at a time when, and in a country where, Catholicism reigned supreme, were prepared to allow that there could be heretics and infidels so untouched by Christian influences as to experience no doubt about the truth of of their own religious tenets. The possibility of a sincere adherence to error is clearly recognized by the Church. Pope Pius IX has declared that, taking into account all the circumstances of time and place in which individuals might find themselves, as well as of their capacity to understand, it would be presumptuous to set limits to the possibilities of invincible ignorance of the true Church. The recognition of this fact, however, can do nothing to attenuate the Church’s often repeated teaching that it is necessary for all men to belong to her explicitly.
continued
T
Tomster
Guest
It has sometimes been argued that non-Catholics in good faith may be said to belong to the “soul,” as distinguished from the body, of the Church. As I pointed out in a previous post that this is not an entirely satisfactory way of viewing the matter, as the distinction in question is not free from ambiguity. It lends itself to the false antithesis between an “invisible” amd “visible” Church, and suggests that one might belong to Christ’s Mystical Body without being incorporated, simultaneously and in the same degree, in the visible Catholic Church - which is impossible. Moreover, the “soul” of the Church, according to tradition, is the Holy Spirit, by whose power the Mystical Body is animated. Although, from a slightly different viewpoint, we may also consider the created effects of the Spirit’s activity - viz., the vital organism made up of grace, the theological virtues and the gifts of the Holy Spirit - as being the source of the Church’s supernatural life, and to that extent her “soul.”
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H
Harsalter
Guest
You think?
Buddy, if you ARE “Saved”, (and I really don’t like how protestants use this word), you ARE Christian.
But all Christians will not make it to heaven as some will die in a state of mortal sin or out of Grace.
Catholics have the sacrament of reconcilliation (that protestants do not have) that can get us out of mortal sin and back in God’s grace.
If I was a protestant or baptist (which I was ), I would run to the nearest priest and beg to be Catholic as soon as possible. It takes time (unless you are in a grave situation), not simply walking down an aisle. So you better get started.
K
kaycee
Guest
John 1:12,
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 3:16,
“For God so loved the world, [1] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 3:36
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Eph 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
John 10:9
I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
Rom 10:9
because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Acts 16:31
And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.
1 John 5:12,13
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
There are obviously many more as well.
K
kaycee
Guest
Been there, done that. God needs no human mediators to forgive.You think?
Buddy, if you ARE “Saved”, (and I really don’t like how protestants use this word), you ARE Christian.
But all Christians will not make it to heaven as some will die in a state of mortal sin or out of Grace.
Catholics have the sacrament of reconcilliation (that protestants do not have) that can get us out of mortal sin and back in God’s grace.
If I was a protestant or baptist (which I was ), I would run to the nearest priest and beg to be Catholic as soon as possible. It takes time (unless you are in a grave situation), not simply walking down an aisle. So you better get started.
H
Harsalter
Guest
Grace by works? New one to this Catholic. For me only confession will get me to purgatory, then to heaven.
H
Harsalter
Guest
T
Tomster
Guest
The whole tenor of the Church’s official documents makes it clear that, apart from two cases, it is necessary for salvation to belong explicitly (in re) to the Catholic Church. The two exceptions, wherein membership of the Church by desire (in voto) suffices, are the following:
- In the event of of the impossibility of baptism, which is always necessary for membership, beinf effectively received. Since, according to the teaching of the Counci of Trent (Session VI, cap. iv), the desire for baptism (contained in the act of charity) can suffice for the soul’s regeneration, it is clear that the desire for membership of the Church, which is made effective by this sacrament, can likewise suffice. And this holds good for catechumens, who are prevented from receiving the sacrament owing to some insuperable obstacle, and for converts from heresy whose antecedent baptism may be uncertain and who are impeded by the like extremity from the actual reception of the sacrament.
- The Church teaches no less clearly that actual membership of the Catholic Church is not necessary for those in invincible ignorance of her true nature. This is stated expressly in the consistorial allocution “Singulari quadam” of Pius IX . It follows therefore that in this case also to belong to the Church “in voto” suffices for salvation.
K
kaycee
Guest
Was Jesus talking to the Apostles?
Do you see the Apostles setting up confessional booths and hearing confession and handing out penance in the Acts?
K
kaycee
Guest
Why must I bend the knee to Peter when I have already bowed down to the Savior?
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