Protestants, Catholics, and Confession

[Teflon93]

Before I begin, is it your contention that the RCC has no comparable or worse skeletons in it’s closet?

I see you just swam the Tiber in '07 so you are still in your honeymoon phase but even so, you most likely realize an organization as old as your church is going to have some skeletons in it’s closet.

Of course we have had a variety of unsavory incidents within the 2,000 year history of the Catholic Church. I also researched the ancient and modern history of the Church before joining. I am also quite familiar with the Protestants’ favorite, Alexander VI, as well as the rest of the Borgias.

Let’s not go too far astray from the point of your claim, which was not skeletons in the closet but anarchy in the church.

 

[scylla]

Before I begin, is it your contention that the RCC has no comparable or worse skeletons in it’s closet?

I see you just swam the Tiber in '07 so you are still in your honeymoon phase but even so, you most likely realize an organization as old as your church is going to have some skeletons in it’s closet.

Then you do agree that Luther was quite evil in some of his beliefs and is then not defendable.
Why did you try to defend him then? Why not just admit that he advocated evil and state that instead of try and defend him?

I would agree that many Catholics have sinned horribly, yet we base our beliefs upon the truth of Christ.
Who cares no Catholic claims that there are no skeletons in our closets. Yet we do advocate that sin is evi, it should be avoided
and can be avoided.

Also that God is not evil nor does He cause it or make us do evil.
Why not focus on the good instead of the evil?

In Christ
Scylla

 

[Calvinator]

Then you do agree that Luther was quite evil in some of his beliefs and is then not defendable.
Why did you try to defend him then? Why not just admit that he advocated evil and state that instead of try and defend him?

I would agree that many Catholics have sinned horribly, yet we base our beliefs upon the truth of Christ.
Who cares no Catholic claims that there are no skeletons in our closets. Yet we do advocate that sin is evi, it should be avoided
and can be avoided.

Also that God is not evil nor does He cause it or make us do evil.
Why not focus on the good instead of the evil?

In Christ
Scylla

You should probably carefully re-read the previous posts before joining in on the discussion.

 

[Calvinator]

Of course we have had a variety of unsavory incidents within the 2,000 year history of the Catholic Church. I also researched the ancient and modern history of the Church before joining. I am also quite familiar with the Protestants’ favorite, Alexander VI, as well as the rest of the Borgias.

Let’s not go too far astray from the point of your claim, which was not skeletons in the closet but anarchy in the church.

I thought all I asked was if your church was any better off and then made the comment that those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw bricks.

I’ll have to go back and re-read what I posted.

 

[Teflon93]

I can save you the trouble, Calvinator:

You wrote “That this was taken as a license to sin was readily apparent in Luther’s own day in the anarchy which engulfed the churches and orders which subscribed to the Lutheran heresy.” and I guess I’ll ask is your new church any better off?

Those who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw bricks.

In my subsequent post I provided some specific examples of Lutheran anarchy.

 

[Abira]

I know the thread is slightly old, but I read numerous Catholics saying: protestants know they should confess their sins but forget, or don’t do it.

I’d like to just mention that many Catholics do not go to confession when they should either.

This is the prayer of penitence that Anglicans say before every communion in the order of service:

Almighty God, our heavenly Father,
we have sinned against you
and against our neighbour
in thought and word and deed,
through negligence, through weakness,
through our own deliberate fault.
We are truly sorry
and repent of all our sins.
For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ,
who died for us,
forgive us all that is past
and grant that we may serve you in newness of life
to the glory of your name.
Amen.

whether or not everyone will mean it or not I don’t know, but we are encouraged to do so and it certainly is a main part of the service (someone earlier stated that it wasn’t a major issue). I don’t know about other denominations but as part of the Anglican comunion, I have seen this play a major part in the service in every service I have attended.

S

 

[Teflon93]

I know the thread is slightly old, but I read numerous Catholics saying: protestants know they should confess their sins but forget, or don’t do it.

I’d like to just mention that many Catholics do not go to confession when they should either.

This is the prayer of penitence that Anglicans say before every communion in the order of service:

Almighty God, our heavenly Father,
we have sinned against you
and against our neighbour
in thought and word and deed,
through negligence, through weakness,
through our own deliberate fault.
We are truly sorry
and repent of all our sins.
For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ,
who died for us,
forgive us all that is past
and grant that we may serve you in newness of life
to the glory of your name.
Amen.

whether or not everyone will mean it or not I don’t know, but we are encouraged to do so and it certainly is a main part of the service (someone earlier stated that it wasn’t a major issue). I don’t know about other denominations but as part of the Anglican comunion, I have seen this play a major part in the service in every service I have attended.

S

Hmm, wonder where the Anglicans might have come up with that idea…oh, yes:

Confiteor
I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.

Of course, in the Catholic case, this confession has a tangible effect and is not considered to be symbolic.

 

[Abira]

Hmm, wonder where the Anglicans might have come up with that idea…oh, yes:

Confiteor
I confess to almighty God, and to you, my brothers and sisters, that I have sinned through my own fault, in my thoughts and in my words, in what I have done and what I have failed to do; and I ask blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you, my brothers and sisters, to pray for me to the Lord our God.

Of course, in the Catholic case, this confession has a tangible effect and is not considered to be symbolic.

the purpose, or tangible effect as you say, is to repent of sins to be ready for communion. You would never say the prayers of penitence after communion…at least I’ve never herd it.

This may just be my understanding though, and I’m not sure how many Anglicans give thought to the words - I know for a time I refused to say it because i refused to apologise for anything I’d done or was currently doing at the time.

If there’s anyone really up on the Anglican service… I wouldn’t wanna speak definitely on it, but I do believe it was a real purpose in the service and encourages the repentence of sin in all people during the week to pray directly to God for forgiveness.

S

 

[Teflon93]

the purpose, or tangible effect as you say, is to repent of sins to be ready for communion. You would never say the prayers of penitence after communion…at least I’ve never herd it.

This may just be my understanding though, and I’m not sure how many Anglicans give thought to the words - I know for a time I refused to say it because i refused to apologise for anything I’d done or was currently doing at the time.

If there’s anyone really up on the Anglican service… I wouldn’t wanna speak definitely on it, but I do believe it was a real purpose in the service and encourages the repentence of sin in all people during the week to pray directly to God for forgiveness.

S

Precisely right. I suspect those Anglican communities which are designated “high church” probably preserve the Catholic view of it; the Episcopal denomination I grew up in did not.

 

[Abira]

Precisely right. I suspect those Anglican communities which are designated “high church” probably preserve the Catholic view of it; the Episcopal denomination I grew up in did not.

lol, it’s funny how other denominations give labels to you that you don’t identify with yourself lol.

in the language I was brought up with, ‘high church’ = bells and smells. lol. .

I’ve never been to an episcopal church or even seen one I don’t think.

S

 

[Teflon93]

lol, it’s funny how other denominations give labels to you that you don’t identify with yourself lol.

in the language I was brought up with, ‘high church’ = bells and smells. lol. .

I’ve never been to an episcopal church or even seen one I don’t think.

S

I think that’s an American thing. When I was growing up we never referred to ourselves as Anglicans, but Episcopalians.

 

[Abira]

I think that’s an American thing. When I was growing up we never referred to ourselves as Anglicans, but Episcopalians.

is that because america wants to distance itself from some of its englsh influence or for a different reason?.. actually don’t reply here though cos I’m derailing the thread lol… I’ll google it.

as an aside though I have never been taught to believe in the real presence of the eucharist… but still taught that it is important to confess sins, and v important to confess sins before communion… an interesting mix of ideas!

S

 

[guanophore]

I know the thread is slightly old, but I read numerous Catholics saying: protestants know they should confess their sins but forget, or don’t do it.

I’d like to just mention that many Catholics do not go to confession when they should either.

This is the prayer of penitence that Anglicans say before every communion in the order of service:

Almighty God, our heavenly Father,
we have sinned against you
and against our neighbour
in thought and word and deed,
through negligence, through weakness,
through our own deliberate fault.
We are truly sorry
and repent of all our sins.
For the sake of your Son Jesus Christ,
who died for us,
forgive us all that is past
and grant that we may serve you in newness of life
to the glory of your name.
Amen.

whether or not everyone will mean it or not I don’t know, but we are encouraged to do so and it certainly is a main part of the service (someone earlier stated that it wasn’t a major issue). I don’t know about other denominations but as part of the Anglican comunion, I have seen this play a major part in the service in every service I have attended.

S

This is part of the Catholic Mass that was preserved.

 

[Abira]

This is part of the Catholic Mass that was preserved.

really? I wonder what parts have remained unchanged or changed.
is there a website or thread some place that compares the liturgy of the Anglican/Catholic service or belief system?