Protestants: Challenge: Do not use Scripture: Use Logic and Reasoning: Are you sinless (Perfect)?

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I have a question for Protestants since most of you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

Are you no sinless?

Or are you imperfect? If you are imperfect, and you die now, do you think you would be worthy of Heaven?

I’m also gonna make this interesting.** Don’t use Scripture**. Let us use reasoning. I like to see how good you are in Apologetics.
 
Do not use scripture or do not make direct references to scripture?
Because of course your question is laden with references to things we know from scripture.
But to answer your question
none of us are worthy.
We believe that Christ died for our past, present, and future sins and through his sacrifice our sins are covered by his blood.
 
Do not use scripture or do not make direct references to scripture?
Because of course your question is laden with references to things we know from scripture.
But to answer your question
none of us are worthy.
We believe that Christ died for our past, present, and future sins and through his sacrifice our sins are covered by his blood.
Well, I can show you from Scripture that we aren’t perfect. Since I don’t want to break the rule I wouldn’t use it.

I know for certain that no Christian can admit to himself that he cannot break the commandment. He can, he must therefore confess to God to be forgiven and repent.

Jesus made it clear to that nothing impure can enter the kingdom of heaven. Unless you are perfect like God, the Father, only then you can be saved.

Future sins cannot be forgiven until they are repented.
 
Well, I can show you from Scripture that we aren’t perfect. Since I don’t want to break the rule I would use it. I know for certain that no Christian can admit to himself that he cannot break the commandment. He can, he must therefore confess to God to be forgiven and repent.

Jesus made it clear to that nothing impure can enter the kingdom of heaven. Unless you are perfect like God, the Father, only then you can be saved.

Future sins cannot be forgiven until they are repented.
I admit we are not perfect.
We have to be perfect like God? That is not even Catholic theology!
Waste of my time.
 
I admit we are not perfect.
We have to be perfect like God? That is not even Catholic theology!
Waste of my time.
Then why did you bother participating in this thread? 🤷

Of course you aren’t perfect. Since you are imperfect, and die now where would you go? Knowing that you aren’t sinless, and imperfect. Let us suppose, you have not committed any serious sin in you, and you die. Let us say you have a sin in you that is not deadly. You wouldn’t be good enough for heaven, and you wouldn’t be bad enough for hell, so where do you think you will go?
 
No I am not perfect…but God knows this. Because I have placed myself in His Hands by faith…and live in the trust that He will do what is right and just, I am confident in His love and mercy he displayed in Christ.

I don’t know what would happen if I should die right now…but I’m in Good Hands…the Best Hands…I trust the One who knows me best and loves me most…so for me, it is a non issue…

I believe in His justice…I believe in His mercy…I believe in His love.
 
No I am not perfect…but God knows this. Because I have placed myself in His Hands by faith…and live in the trust that He will do what is right and just, I am confident in His love and mercy he displayed in Christ.

I don’t know what would happen if I should die right now…but I’m in Good Hands…the Best Hands…I trust the One who knows me best and loves me most…so for me, it is a non issue…

I believe in His justice…I believe in His mercy…I believe in His love.
Your answer is more charitable than the other guy. 👍
 
The Pope has said, according to EWTN, that the sole qualification to be a Christian is to believe that Jesus is Lord.

There that’s not from the Bible.

However, it is consitent with the idea that there is only one body and one church and those who are in it are all a part of it by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the mercy of the Father. So instead of playing cosmic gotcha with the protestants how about instead we all work out our own salvation with fear and trembling realizing that none of us are worthy of heaven.

One more thing. Hebrews says that Jesus is our personal advocate before the Father and there is no need, so say the protestants (at least the orthodox ones) to confess sin to anyone except Jesus and the Father directly by prayer. However, I do not believe this negates the human need to confess to each other, and since this idea is Scriptural as well we should do so.
 
I also put myself in God’s hands. I trust in Him completely. I live a clean life but far from perfect (sinless).
Being a Christian is not a free-pass to live a sinful life. Quite the contray, a person who accepts Jesus as his personal Savior begins a new (not perfect) life in Christ.
When a person who claims to be saved, continues to sin, is not sincere. Just like a Catholic who goes back and forth to confession each week with the same sin, with no real intention of changing their way.
 
I have a question for Protestants since most of you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

Are you no sinless?

Or are you imperfect? If you are imperfect, and you die now, do you think you would be worthy of Heaven?

I’m also gonna make this interesting.** Don’t use Scripture**. Let us use reasoning. I like to see how good you are in Apologetics.
Sinless? No. I continue to struggle with sin, usually in my thoughts. If we were sinless then we would be like Jesus. That is our goal though, to be like him. That is why I must pray daily for his guidence and grace. Could’nt live without him.

Imperfect? Yes. I do my best to be perfect, but that is only possible through Jesus. I think it’s a continuing process. A life long process of salvation. I’ll never br perfect untill I’m in God’s presence.

Worthy of Heaven? I have faith and hope that I will be worthy. God knows my heart and give it to him daily. I dedicate each new day to him and pray for his grace. I believe I’ll never know untill that final moment, but faith, love and hope keep me moving forward to God. I think if one of the most important Apostles did’nt know for sure untill his final hour how can I? Belief and faith keep me going.

Praise God!
Jamie
 
I am a sinner.

My sins are atoned for, the justice of God is satisfied in the sacrifice of Christ; His wrath is turned away; His resurrection is a sure sign and promise of my own and His ascension into glory is a token of both His return and the gift of eternal life He has won for me.
 
I have a question for Protestants since most of you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

Are you no sinless?

Or are you imperfect? If you are imperfect, and you die now, do you think you would be worthy of Heaven?

I’m also gonna make this interesting.** Don’t use Scripture**. Let us use reasoning. I like to see how good you are in Apologetics.
Hi Manny, though I see what you are driving at I really cringe at the idea of removing God’s Word from discussions about God. It’s like we are trying to rely on our own intellect rather than focus on the Holy Spirit’s guidance.
 
I have a question for Protestants…

Are you no sinless?
I’m also gonna make this interesting.** Don’t use Scripture**. Let us use reasoning. I like to see how good you are in Apologetics.
I know I am sinful, and my only hope rests in the mercy of God.
I read it in the bible, in catechism books, and heard it from many other sources, but I only understood it when I encountered Christ, through the worship, liturgy and tradition of the Church…He cannot be limited, but the Church, his Body is the place He ordained to meet us face to face, among His Body on Earth. I cannot explain it in 10 dollar words, but I can tell you the story of encountering Christ. and how with tenderness and mercy He revealed my sickness unto death, and by the Grace I received through baptism, I was able to respond.

I had been a Protestant all my life, and the Bible, the sermons, all the books on doctrine (Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox…were dead words to me. Not until I received the “Living Word”, through the proclamation of the Church and her Liturgy, and got my fist glimpse of the fullness of the Kingdom of God, did I realize I was at the wedding feast, and was not had no garment fit to allow me to be there.

The entire story of salvation was laid out before my eyes and into my heart through the Living Tradition, the words of the Liturgy. The realization of my own unworthiness grew in proportion to the love and mercy of God as it was revealed to me;
No one told me I needed to confess my sins, It was with gratefulness that I submitted and received absolution; and am grateful that reconciliations is available to me, as I will certainly fail many times.

As for the type of apologetics that is practiced here, it scared the heck out of me…I was no match for your words, and more often than not, I felt cornered, like the woman caught in adultery (I knew in my heart I wasn’t whole), all the stones of truth, thrown “in love and concern for my salvation”, only wounded me more.

I am not sure Christ ever won anyone over with clever apologetics; and I think many of us are picking up bad habits from the Protestants with all this proof texting (Scripture, Church Fathers, history…).
.
No one can Confess that Jesus is the Christ, by reason alone…in fact, the unanswerable arguments, even if true are dead words, especially the ones about submitting to the Church; it was like salt in my wounds that the Spirit, I think , had to work overtime to heal, and actually delayed my very slow and cautious approach to Christ’s promptings.

Forgive the many errors; my words are poor; but stories and parables seemed to work best for Christ, and I am the first to admit, I am an ignorant woman, and I know I am leaving words that will probably be torn to pieces, but I pray my understanding and knowledge increases as i grow into Christ, and partake of the Graces that the Church makes available to me.

Apologetics has become what used to be what was saved until after you came to knowledge and were ready to renounce the world and confess Christ…then the learning and growing in mysteries commenced. I think we, without malice, throw are pearls before swine; it is universal these days, as we have lost touch with how the Church initiated converts.
Now, many of those same words I hunger and thirst for.

It’s not a bad thing to understand your faith, but just like I could have cared less what made my husband tick, and what all his little wonderful surprises that married life brings, would have meant nothing apart from first falling in love with him.

It was through meeting, and knowing Christ (knowing him in the "Adam knew his Wife:, not knowing every nuance of the Law and the Scriptures, that changed peoples lives.
Apologetics was the wall the Pharisees built around themselves, and, sadly, in their pride, cut themselves off, and the flock that trusted them, from the very One they were waiting for.
"It was not we ourselves who were moved towards God, nor did we ascend to Him; but it was He who came and descended to us. It was not we who sought, but we were the object of His seeking.
The sheep did not seek for the shepherd, nor did the lost coin search for the master of the house; He it was who came to the earth and retrieved His own image, and He came to the place where the sheep was straying and lifted it up and stopped it from straying…
…As the prophet says, “He bowed the heavens also, and came down.” - St. Nicholas Cabasilas, The Life in Christ
BTW, your post was addressed to Protestants. I am Eastern Orthodox; but I have been recently informed by CAF that since I am not in communion with Rome, that is some mutation of Protestantism, and that’s why we were banished here, to the non-catholic ghetto., so I thought it was allowable to answer your query.

lucy
 
1st sin has to be defined. without scriputre how would you define Sin?

Is not sin breaking a rule or Law. Does not the law tell us that we are impurfect, and withhout the creator of the Law Who do you really sin against?

So by knowing what the law is we know sin ( Adam and Eve)
And by know who created the Law we know hwo we sin against.

Sin was never really man against man but Man sinning against God the creator of the Law. Unless you really think all these laws came out of thin air.

now, If i create an object, any object we have all built something weather it be in crafts at home, art in school, a building chair, etc. would we not want to try to fix it if that item, thing, or what ever it is Broke!!

This is what God did though Jesus, for did God not tell Adam if he sinned he would die? So the only true redemtion would be of God demanding of Adams life immediatly. But Jesus coming to Earth being perfect in ever way took that punishment for know other living creature, no matter how perfect could stand in our stead.

Sorry, Can’t really ignore scripture.
 
BTW, your post was addressed to Protestants. I am Eastern Orthodox; but I have been recently informed by CAF that since I am not in communion with Rome, that is some mutation of Protestantism, and that’s why we were banished here, to the non-catholic ghetto., so I thought it was allowable to answer your query.
youtube.com/watch?v=zmVFnhO3A98
 
Thanks for making me smile, Brian.

I read some of your posts over on the 'Feeling shut out: mixed marriage thread, and I appreciate your viewpoint.

I am married to a Roman Catholic, and I come here to to try to build some bridges, but seems there’s a monopoly on construction materials.
I am a former Protestant, and I would never malign the Grace that I grew up in; I follow where Christ leads, and if it wasn’t for what I received from the hands and hearts of my Protestant brethren, I would not be where I am now.
It was studying the Bible that, the Word that speaks through the scriptures that helped me seek out and finally move toward the voice of my Shepherd, that I always heard, if only faintly, in my heart.

God mercy is boundless, and is call goes out far and wide.

I understand the Roman Catholic Church is bound by their Deposit of Faith, but when they hold God to the same boundries, they are fencing in the Shepherd from seeking his lost or wandering sheep.

And I am having a hard time understanding if I am being told that when I confess in Creed :" I believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church…", I am blaspheming; and even the Pope acknowledges the the Eastern Orthodox are “Sister Churches”, how can it be declared otherwise here?

And that has nothing to do with “administrative logistics”, which I understand fully were a serious drain on their time and energy. It is perhaps “a bridge to far”.
Where am I to go to reconcile, and come to know my Latin brothers and sisters?

The Holy Father does not ask for my submission and conversion to the Roman Church, but unfortunately, that is the only option that keeps being held out to me, before I can have a conversation.

This may be the post that gets me banned. If so, thank you for the smile this morning.😉

lucy
 
Hi Manny, though I see what you are driving at I really cringe at the idea of removing God’s Word from discussions about God. It’s like we are trying to rely on our own intellect rather than focus on the Holy Spirit’s guidance.
First of all, the God’s Word is not only in the Bible. The Word of God is incarnate, a living Person, the Second Person of the Trinity. If I remove God’s Word, Jesus would not be discuss in this forum.

I also believe the Holy Spirit will guide you in this discussion. Paul use logic and reason to debate with the Greeks, who don’t know Hebrew Scripture.

I’m sorry if you think I am removing God’s Word. I’m not. Jesus would not be discussed here. Christianity is not the religion of the book like I said before. We are the Religion of the Word of God, incarnate. Jesus Christ. Christianity is defined by Him and Him ALONE, not just mere book.
 
I have a question for Protestants since most of you accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

Are you no sinless?

Or are you imperfect? If you are imperfect, and you die now, do you think you would be worthy of Heaven?

I’m also gonna make this interesting.** Don’t use Scripture**. Let us use reasoning. I like to see how good you are in Apologetics.
Answer: I could not use reasoning on this without first obtaining necessary knowledge from the Scriptures. I’m not Catholic.
 
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