Protestants: Could you please do us all a favor??

[sambos671]

Thank you for your response. There was one other point that I wanted to make, but could not remember it at the time of my previous posting. Here it is;

The scripture tells us that eventually, Israelites currently spread throughout the world, will return to their homeland. So great is this event, that it will bear celebration greater than the annual feast & celebration of the passover. Who are these Israelites, that will return home? Are we to assume, that it is referring only to those that are currently called ‘jews’ throughout the world, or does it encompass many nations & peoples that we currently believe are gentiles? Depending on one’s interpretation, knowledge, wisdom from God, etc., ‘understanding’ by various people could cover an infinite of possibilities. One thing is for certain, and that is, this event will take place.

When you take what I have written in my previous posting, add the above addition, and look at the current situation of the majority of current day jews still “waiting on their Messiah” (Ie. denying Christ as their saviour), it makes me wonder if there are in fact other Israelites that we assume are gentiles.

It certainly is something to ponder. One thing we know for sure is that one day every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord! Amen?

I’m curious as to which verse your speaking of. Its key because the Jews before Jesus time were spread out. The 10 Northern tribes spread to the far end of the Assyrian Empire into Media. The 2 Southern Tribes (and the other 10 represented ) were taken to Babylon. Many fled south into Egypt and started a large Colony in Alexandria (where btw they translated the hebrew scriptures into Greek ) and parts of Arabia and possibly northern India. After the Captivity the Jews returned back to their homeland! And there was a struggle and great rejoicing. before Jesus time the Jews had to fight to keep their laws and thus we have the story of the Maccabees and the establishment of Judea and the rebuilt 2nd temple. So are these scriptures referring to this or some future event or both? The bottom line is that if Jews are to be saved it is through Jesus Christ and baptism even as we are. It may be the modern Jewish nation will return to the lord fully and that will be a day of great rejoicing for they will not be jewish under the Law but live in Liberty as Christians! I honestly don’t know. Like I’ve indicated, I think these verses are already fulfilled and I think there is not need for the Temple to be built again for sacrifices are no longer necissary. But then I’m not God and am only speculating. I do enjoy visiting my messianic friends and dancing and singing hebrew songs. Still I think they miss out on the sacraments that messiah has taught to his apostles.

 

[guanophore]

All I can say is thank God I am not a part of the RCC!

Well, I rejoice that, if you are validly baptized, indeed you are.

Just look at the joy and power and life in the music of non RCC’s and put it up next to the sad sounds that emanate from the RCC and you will get one of many hints as to where the true life and power is.

Wow. Joy and power and life in the music.

I think you make an important point here. Our separated brethren have lost touch with the nature of true worship. In it’s place, lively music, pleasing to the ear and heart, have taken the place of the Eucharist. Indeed, unknowingly, most of our separated brethren have fallen into the trance that true “joy, life, and power” are found in the music, and the emotional cranking up of oneself in “praise”. It is a superficial spiritual “buzz” that appeals to the masses.

You write as if you have once heard the liturgical music of the Divine Liturgy. Some refer to solemn or sacred music as “funeral dirge music”. Has this been your experience?

Turn your radio on and listen to the Christian music you love. Guess how much was produced by Roman Catholics???

Catholicism is not “Roman”, however, had it not been for “Roman Catholics”, there would not be any Christian music on the radio. There would probably not be radio, or music at all.

There is a very crucial reason why that is the case. Life versus religion. Grace versus law. So…to answer your question at the title of this thread…looks like we have done you a HUGE favor–we’ve given you a great big, joyous hint as to where salvation is…where life is. Take the hint while you still have time on this earth. There is no second chance.

TQ, you seem to have very little understanding of Catholicism, and a lot of misunderstanding. Where did you get your ideas about the Catholic faith?

 

[Singinbeauty]

In the Old Testament, God TOLD the Israelites to make statues of cherubim and other beings… to adorn the altar… the tabernacle…

I have heard this arguement a few times and am a little confused by it… The statues of the cherubim and such were for the Ark of the Covenant, right? To adorn that - did God say to make statues for the Church? If so, I am totally curious to know where. I haven’t been to many synagogues (forgive me for my spelling!) but are they covered with statues? If so, are they of past people who were great in the Jewish faith?

Yes, God told them to make the cherubim and put them on the ark, then cherubim have been put into the tabernacles (but not statues) - I could only find references to the carvings in the doors (along with lions and such) and woven into the curtains.

Did God say to make statues of anything but cherubims? Did He tell us to make statues of the saints and pray to them? This is still something that confuses me and I haven’t been given an answer that relieves my uneasiness…

I am not saying it is wrong per se (who am I to judge?) but I am saying that it is not something I can support while this conviction lays heavy on my heart… All I can say is that if you feel it isn’t, then that is between you and God - while I believe it is wrong for me and that God says don’t do it, I have to go with that and not do it. I would rather not do something I thought was wrong and have Him say that I was mislead than to do it even though I felt like I was defying God.

Just my 2 cents…

 

[Singinbeauty]

True, i agree with you here.

But is also a lack of knowledge from non-catholic denominations to say that we worship statues.

It’s just helps with prayer, we are not worshipping a piece of wood. I wonder how many protestants/lutherans carry pictures of their loved one in their pockets…so does that mean they are worshipping the photo? or their loved ones? Obviously not.

It would beg the question, do they pray to the photo? I have plenty of photos of family and friends, doesn’t mean that I bow to them and pray.

Egypt has the sphinx, we have statues of dead presidents… the only way I would have a problem with these is if someone told me they were there to help us pray and to bow before them to do so…

 

[Bill_Pick]

All I can say is thank God I am not a part of the RCC! Just look at the joy and power and life in the music of non RCC’s and put it up next to the sad sounds that emanate from the RCC and you will get one of many hints as to where the true life and power is. Turn your radio on and listen to the Christian music you love. Guess how much was produced by Roman Catholics??? There is a very crucial reason why that is the case. Life versus religion. Grace versus law. So…to answer your question at the title of this thread…looks like we have done you a HUGE favor–we’ve given you a great big, joyous hint as to where salvation is…where life is. Take the hint while you still have time on this earth. There is no second chance.

You may have a point Benny Hinn Earnest Angley,Don Stewart,leroy Jekekeins all have good music,preaching well that leaves a lot to be well I think you get ,

 

[Lost_Found]

I have heard this arguement a few times and am a little confused by it… The statues of the cherubim and such were for the Ark of the Covenant, right? To adorn that - did God say to make statues for the Church? If so, I am totally curious to know where. I haven’t been to many synagogues (forgive me for my spelling!) but are they covered with statues? If so, are they of past people who were great in the Jewish faith?

Yes, God told them to make the cherubim and put them on the ark, then cherubim have been put into the tabernacles (but not statues) - I could only find references to the carvings in the doors (along with lions and such) and woven into the curtains.

Did God say to make statues of anything but cherubims? Did He tell us to make statues of the saints and pray to them? This is still something that confuses me and I haven’t been given an answer that relieves my uneasiness…

I am not saying it is wrong per se (who am I to judge?) but I am saying that it is not something I can support while this conviction lays heavy on my heart… All I can say is that if you feel it isn’t, then that is between you and God - while I believe it is wrong for me and that God says don’t do it, I have to go with that and not do it. I would rather not do something I thought was wrong and have Him say that I was mislead than to do it even though I felt like I was defying God.

Just my 2 cents…

Hello maam hope your search for God is going well.
Try reading this article, hope it helps.
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0603btb.asp
The good book mentions that God was pleased with the construction. To this day we place images of Celestial creatures in our Churches. It’s not strictly a Catholic vs Protestant thing because there are also Catholics who tend to be iconoclasts. But there was controversy about this over a thousand years ago in our Church (okay, Jesus’ Church) and it was all settled.

 

[Singinbeauty]

You’ve kind of jumped topics here that don’t really follow. Lets see Jesus didn’t specifically say “make statues to remember scriptures” Ok. Jesus also didn’t specifically say “make an alter call” Nor did Jesus say “you must say the sinners prayer to be saved” Following your example of Aaron’s sons these are also additions all protestants should have the same fate.

Jesus said to let the little children come to Him - that we are to be like children, alter calls are just that - Us acknowledging that we need to come to Him. I have never understood why some catholics have such an issue with this. It is a physical acknowledgment and is not required. We are to come forward and be baptized, this is just the first step.

The ‘Sinner’s Prayer’ as you pointed out - LOL, this always gets me. There is no such thing as a sinners prayer. I have been a non-catholic all my life and have never been told of an actual prayer that needs to be said to be christian. Facts my friend, facts… I think what you are referring to is the prayer that we all say to begin our walk with God. Though there is no specific prayer out there we all have said it - yes, even you if you believe yourself to be christian - when we acknowledge that we need God because we can’t do this alone. That we need Christ’s sacrifice and that we are lowly sinners who need God’s grace. Anytime you say these words (or words like them) you are saying the “Sinner’s Prayer”… Didn’t know you were doing what you thought to be a protestant thing, did ya?

 

[distracted]

Every time I go to a non-catholic funeral, I feel profoundly sad. Not a single prayer for the soul of the loved one. Yet if you read in the obituaries, there are those who write to their dead loved ones as tho they can read the paper. Deep down in the heart of us all is the desire to communicate with our loved ones that are with God. Whether we admit it or not.

In the Catholic Church, we call that the Communion of Saints. Prayer is ‘talking to God’ We can pray, or ‘talk’ to our loved ones too and the Blessed Mother is at the top of that list. What do we do when we pray or ‘talk’ to Mary, we ask her for her prayers. Just as I might ask you for your prayers. The big difference being, she is right there with God and has a profound place in Heaven and her prayers are always in line with the Will of God. God Bless, Memaw

one of the reasons the saints (i htink it was them ) said that Protestants are in Purg longer than Catholics is because they have no one to pray for them… Now i think about it i think it was Mary who said that… to someone…

but it makes sense… they usually don’t think they even need any Purgatory… 'cause “Jesus did it all”…

but Jesus can’t make someone’s choices for him/her… can’t(won’t) interfere w/ their free will… stop them from sinning, etc…

 

[distracted]

Anytime you say these words (or words like them) you are saying the “Sinner’s Prayer”… Didn’t know you were doing what you thought to be a protestant thing, did ya?

just wondering why you are not Catholic… What beliefs do you have problem with?

how lng have you been Christian?

just curious…

how long have been on CAF?

why are you here exactly??

I know… i sound like a 3 yr old… but kinda like to know where people are coming from…

 

[Peter_J]

Egypt has the sphinx, we have statues of dead presidents… the only way I would have a problem with these is if someone told me they were there to help us pray and to bow before them to do so…

Then you’re more “lenient” than a lot of Evangelicals, who say that just having a statue of Mary is problematic.

 

[Singinbeauty]

just wondering why you are not Catholic… What beliefs do you have problem with?

I am not catholic because I don’t believe that that is where God wants me. I think part of my reason for life is to help bridge unity between those catholics and non-catholics that I come into contact with. There really isn’t a reason for all the hostility.

how lng have you been Christian?

just curious…

I have been christian - Lets see, if we count when I actually acknowledged that I needed Christ and such it would be since I was about 8 I think, if we count from when I actually started relying on Him when chaos took over my life it would be since my junior year of high school, or if we count since my baptism then it would be just shy of 4 years…

Different people believe where christianity begins in a person’s life - Kind of like the question of when life begins. I believe that I have been christian since I was 8 - when I acknowledged that I needed Him. He has seen me through a LOT and I wouldn’t be here typing this to you if it weren’t for the fact that He has been there. I am so very thankful that He has been the stability in my life - otherwise… Well, I will just leave it at that for now.

how long have been on CAF?

Check my profile - it should say when I started lurking around here, to be honest I can’t remember when I first logged on… It has been on and off for a while now…

why are you here exactly??

To understand and correct misunderstandings when it comes to misconceptions about non-catholics. I get hot under the collar sometimes but who doesn’t? I also want to bridge the gap between us - so much unnecessary anger / hurt. We need to find a better way of looking at things so that we can stop focussing on our differences and bring God to this world. How can a world trust a God who has so much bickering, hatred, murder & violence amongst His believers?

I know… i sound like a 3 yr old… but kinda like to know where people are coming from…

That’s good, it is always best to make sure you know where others are coming from when it comes to discussing beliefs. No worries!

 

[Singinbeauty]

Then you’re more “lenient” than a lot of Evangelicals, who say that just having a statue of Mary is problematic.

I will take that as a compliment.

It is not about leniency though, it is about understanding the difference which is something that a lot of catholics and non-catholics have as a HUGE stumbling block.

 

[marktheseeker]

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only son, Our Lord, who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He decended into hell. The third day he rose again from the dead. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty. From thence He will come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting. Amen.

This is the most important, non negotiables of both Catholics and Protestants. Everything else is secondary. So what’s the big deal?

 

[Memaw]

one of the reasons the saints (i htink it was them ) said that Protestants are in Purg longer than Catholics is because they have no one to pray for them… Now i think about it i think it was Mary who said that… to someone…

but it makes sense… they usually don’t think they even need any Purgatory… 'cause “Jesus did it all”…

but Jesus can’t make someone’s choices for him/her… can’t(won’t) interfere w/ their free will… stop them from sinning, etc…

Jesus did day that we have to ‘atone’ for every sin, either in this world or in the next!! We call "the next’, Purgatory. Comes from the word Purge. He didn’t say that it was just for Cathoics who believe in Purgatory. He meant that for everyone! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

Jesus said to let the little children come to Him - that we are to be like children, alter calls are just that - Us acknowledging that we need to come to Him. I have never understood why some catholics have such an issue with this. It is a physical acknowledgment and is not required. We are to come forward and be baptized, this is just the first step.

The ‘Sinner’s Prayer’ as you pointed out - LOL, this always gets me. There is no such thing as a sinners prayer. I have been a non-catholic all my life and have never been told of an actual prayer that needs to be said to be christian. Facts my friend, facts… I think what you are referring to is the prayer that we all say to begin our walk with God. Though there is no specific prayer out there we all have said it - yes, even you if you believe yourself to be christian - when we acknowledge that we need God because we can’t do this alone. That we need Christ’s sacrifice and that we are lowly sinners who need God’s grace. Anytime you say these words (or words like them) you are saying the “Sinner’s Prayer”… Didn’t know you were doing what you thought to be a protestant thing, did ya?

The Lord’s prayer is a sinners prayer, ‘forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,’ In truth, every prayer is a ‘sinners’ prayer as we are all sinners. God Bless, memaw

 

[Singinbeauty]

The Lord’s prayer is a sinners prayer, ‘forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us,’ In truth, every prayer is a ‘sinners’ prayer as we are all sinners. God Bless, memaw

So if the Lord’s Prayer is a Sinner’s Prayer why do some catholics have so many issues with the idea? The post that brought on mine was because sambos671 said that the Sinner’s Prayer isn’t in the Bible so it was something extra that protestants added.

 

[sambos671]

I have heard this arguement a few times and am a little confused by it… The statues of the cherubim and such were for the Ark of the Covenant, right? To adorn that - did God say to make statues for the Church? If so, I am totally curious to know where. I haven’t been to many synagogues (forgive me for my spelling!) but are they covered with statues? If so, are they of past people who were great in the Jewish faith?

Yes, God told them to make the cherubim and put them on the ark, then cherubim have been put into the tabernacles (but not statues) - I could only find references to the carvings in the doors (along with lions and such) and woven into the curtains.

Did God say to make statues of anything but cherubims? Did He tell us to make statues of the saints and pray to them? This is still something that confuses me and I haven’t been given an answer that relieves my uneasiness…

I am not saying it is wrong per se (who am I to judge?) but I am saying that it is not something I can support while this conviction lays heavy on my heart… All I can say is that if you feel it isn’t, then that is between you and God - while I believe it is wrong for me and that God says don’t do it, I have to go with that and not do it. I would rather not do something I thought was wrong and have Him say that I was mislead than to do it even though I felt like I was defying God.

Just my 2 cents…

go to 1 Kings and read the description of Solomon’s Temple. Now God did not specify to Solomon how to build it. look At the decoratons descriptions. How about the Cheribum statues with wing tips touching wall to wall? Did God condemn Solomon for this? Solomon based his temple building on the tabernacle but a lot of it was his design. It was ornate. Beautiful. Common a jaunt throught the scriptures should show you whats going on! Ask yourself this. Was Judaism practiced in Davids day and in Jesus day based on a liturgical worship? If so (if your from a non liturgical protestant background) why aren’t you practicing it? Have you made a journey through Liviticus?

 

[sambos671]

Jesus said to let the little children come to Him - that we are to be like children, alter calls are just that - Us acknowledging that we need to come to Him. I have never understood why some catholics have such an issue with this. It is a physical acknowledgment and is not required. We are to come forward and be baptized, this is just the first step.

The ‘Sinner’s Prayer’ as you pointed out - LOL, this always gets me. There is no such thing as a sinners prayer. I have been a non-catholic all my life and have never been told of an actual prayer that needs to be said to be christian. Facts my friend, facts… I think what you are referring to is the prayer that we all say to begin our walk with God. Though there is no specific prayer out there we all have said it - yes, even you if you believe yourself to be christian - when we acknowledge that we need God because we can’t do this alone. That we need Christ’s sacrifice and that we are lowly sinners who need God’s grace. Anytime you say these words (or words like them) you are saying the “Sinner’s Prayer”… Didn’t know you were doing what you thought to be a protestant thing, did ya?

Well, for the past 24 years I was primarily a baptist. And let me tell you that the consept of the sinners prayer has been regurgitated in every baptist service I’ve been in. The question is “Do you believe in baptismal regeneration?” or is it just a symbol? All baptist I know will go with the symbolism. In order to be saved they say that you must say the sinner’s prayer and “ask Jesus into your heart”. Note to another poster the sinner’s prayer is not the same thing as the Lords prayer. Then you must make a public proclimation. Baptism is only a obedient step of symbolism rather than it does what it says Yet Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again of the Spirit and of Water. No where do we find Jesus saying the Sinners prayer to lead us to follow him in obedience. We do find him being baptised even though John the Baptist said that Jesus needed to baptised him. But Jesus led the way for us to follow. How many preachers ( And I know quite a few) have claimed that they “led” someone to the Lord by saying the “sinners prayer” with them? So you see in at least baptist mentality a person saying the sinners prayer and “believing in their heart that Jesus is Lord” equates to salvation. And that’s where salvation ends. The moment that happens baptist will say that they are justified and salvation is a given. Especially, if they’re strongly influenced by reformed theology. Baptism is just a proclamation. Nothing to it. But this is not what we see represented in scriptures. For the early church it (baptism) was essential. For Paul He had the promise of Salvation. But he also “strived to complete the race” only when he thought he was near death that he felt that he maintained the faith and would recieve salvation certainly. For the Catholic this is also the case. The catholic can rest assured that Christ promises are and will be fulfilled but we have a responsibility to run the race lest (like it says in Hebrews) we be lead away from so great a salvation. For the Catholic Salvation is everything. Its God choosing us. Its God giving us faith, its us accepting that faith, its us living obediently and participating with the grace God has given to us through the sacraments, its living our life as though running the race, and its the grace given to us at our death that we will recieve the promise of Christ, its the resurrection of the Body, its the acceptance into our eternal reward at the bridegrooms wedding feast. All of it is salvation. Not just one aspect like it is for so many protestants. Paul reflects the catholic view in his letters. Not the protestant one. Many protestants will hang out in Romans (romans road) negleting the other things Paul said with regard to salvation. Any way just some thoughts.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Well, for the past 24 years I was primarily a baptist. And let me tell you that the consept of the sinners prayer has been regurgitated in every baptist service I’ve been in.

But is it an actual prayer (i.e. like the Lord’s Prayer) that must be said a certain way or is it a prayer acknowledging that you need Him? That’s my point. From what I know there is no actual prayer that has been written that needs to be recited before becoming a christian - Do we need to acknowledge that we need Him and accept the fact that without Him in our lives we couldn’t survive especially in eternity? Of course, that is what I know to be the “Sinner’s Prayer” and catholics / non-catholics alike have all said this at one time or another. You couldn’t be christian without acknowledging that…

The question is “Do you believe in baptismal regeneration?” or is it just a symbol? All baptist I know will go with the symbolism. In order to be saved they say that you must say the sinner’s prayer and “ask Jesus into your heart”.

Ask Him into your heart… so you don’t believe this? What does this mean anyways? Here are my thoughts…

The ‘heart’ is the seat of the emotions in our world today:

“I love you with all my heart” Love
“My heart was broken” Sad
“My heart jumped into my throat!” Scared
“My heart sank” Disappointed

In the above examples the ‘heart’ represents all kinds of things -

How do you love with an organ?
I am still alive so it must not be broken as it is still pumping blood.
It is physically impossible for your heart to jump into your throat
Your heart pretty much stays put so how could it sink?

My point is this - the heart represents you as a whole. There is no where in your body in which your heart doesn’t affect. It pumps your lifeblood all throughout keeping you alive.

Inviting Christ into your heart is much the same concept. As catholics I am sure you do this. Christ has to be part of every aspect of our lives. Family, love, money, etc… To ask Christ into your heart is asking Him into every part of your life. Does He come ‘live’ in your heart? Of course not but once you have accepted His love and acknowledged your need for Him He is brought into every part of you, hence the expression - accepting Christ into your heart.

Again, I am always amazed by some catholics having issue with this phrase…

Note to another poster the sinner’s prayer is not the same thing as the Lords prayer.

Ok

Then you must make a public proclimation. Baptism is only a obedient step of symbolism rather than it does what it says Yet Jesus told Nicodemus that he must be born again of the Spirit and of Water. No where do we find Jesus saying the Sinners prayer to lead us to follow him in obedience. We do find him being baptised even though John the Baptist said that Jesus needed to baptised him. But Jesus led the way for us to follow.

One passage I really like is Luke 11:9 & 10:

9"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

If I say, Lord - I need you! He is there, no questions asked. This is what the Sinner’s Prayer is. Asking for the Lord. Knowing that you are a lowly sinner and need Him. That’s all it is - why is this such an issue with you?

How many preachers ( And I know quite a few) have claimed that they “led” someone to the Lord by saying the “sinners prayer” with them? So you see in at least baptist mentality a person saying the sinners prayer and “believing in their heart that Jesus is Lord” equates to salvation. And that’s where salvation ends. The moment that happens baptist will say that they are justified and salvation is a given. Especially, if they’re strongly influenced by reformed theology.

So when you say ‘protestants’ you really just mean baptists? The reason why I say this is because you are using a lot of your information from when you were a baptist but you lumped all protestants together when posting about the sinner’s prayer and altar calls.

Baptism is just a proclamation. Nothing to it. But this is not what we see represented in scriptures. For the early church it (baptism) was essential. For Paul He had the promise of Salvation. But he also “strived to complete the race” only when he thought he was near death that he felt that he maintained the faith and would recieve salvation certainly. For the Catholic this is also the case. The catholic can rest assured that Christ promises are and will be fulfilled but we have a responsibility to run the race lest (like it says in Hebrews) we be lead away from so great a salvation. For the Catholic Salvation is everything. Its God choosing us. Its God giving us faith, its us accepting that faith, its us living obediently and participating with the grace God has given to us through the sacraments, its living our life as though running the race, and its the grace given to us at our death that we will recieve the promise of Christ, its the resurrection of the Body, its the acceptance into our eternal reward at the bridegrooms wedding feast. All of it is salvation. Not just one aspect like it is for so many protestants.

For many protestants (I prefer non-catholics since I am not protesting anything - but that is for another thread of course) it is just the same. It is all of in encomassed together to acheive salvation. I don’t subscribe (and I don’t believe the church I attend does either) to the once saved always saved thought process - not every protestant does.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Continued…

Paul reflects the catholic view in his letters. Not the protestant one. Many protestants will hang out in Romans (romans road) negleting the other things Paul said with regard to salvation.

So will many catholics…

Now, like I said, not all protestants subscribe to what you are lumping us all into. Be careful and mindful of generalizations my friend…

Any way just some thoughts.

And a lot of thoughts there are all jumbled together in one paragraph - FYI, it is MUCH easier to read and follow thoughts on the forums if you break it up between thoughts as I have with your post above - just so I can differentiate and address each one… If there is anything I missed please let me know.