Protestants, did Jesus Christ gave us a Church with authority?

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Protestants, did Jesus Christ gave us a Church with authority?

If he did, then when why do some of your fore fathers ignore Church authority?

If he did not gave us an Church with authority, whom did Jesus handed his authority too? Did Church authority fell away when the last Apostle die?

How would it justifying adding 27 NT text in the Bible? Since the Holy Bible did not added the 27 NT text into the canon but rather local Synods of the Church.
 
I am looking forward to seeing some (name removed by moderator)ut on this.
 
I like to add that the 27 NT were declared canonical or inspired by the Church, in the fourth century by local African Synods like Hippo and Carthage.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Protestants, did Jesus Christ gave us a Church with authority?

If he did, then when why do some of your fore fathers ignore Church authority?

If he did not gave us an Church with authority, whom did Jesus handed his authority too? Did Church authority fell away when the last Apostle die?

How would it justifying adding 27 NT text in the Bible? Since the Holy Bible did not added the 27 NT text into the canon but rather local Synods of the Church.
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He did, and you’re welcome to join us on any Sunday. :tiphat:
 
sandusky said:
He did, and you’re welcome to join us on any Sunday. :tiphat:
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How is the Reformed church the one to which Jesus gave authority? Remember, the gospels were not written until several decades after Jesus’ death (along with many other writings) and the books of the New Testament were not officially separated out of the other writings of the time and declared inspired Scripture until almost 400 years later. The Catholic Church was the church that did that. If the Catholic Church didn’t have the the authority to do that, then why do Protestants think those books (and not the other writings of the time) are the ones that are inspired?
 
Claire_from_DE said:
How is the Reformed church the one to which Jesus gave authority? Remember, the gospels were not written until several decades after Jesus’ death (along with many other writings) and the books of the New Testament were not officially separated out of the other writings of the time and declared inspired Scripture until almost 400 years later. The Catholic Church was the church that did that. If the Catholic Church didn’t have the the authority to do that, then why do Protestants think those books (and not the other writings of the time) are the ones that are inspired?
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You are correct. I really do believe that a Protestant who is willing to unbiasly study the history of Christianity and beliefs of the early Church Fathers and councils of the first 500 years of Church history, will be driven to the conclusion that the Catholic Church has held true to the intitial spiritual doctrines of the Apostles, whereas the reformation was a dramatic departure from the teachings of the Apostles. (Now - they may neverthess disagree with those Apostolic interpretations - but at least they would understand this is a significant re-interpretation of scripture).

The DC books (a/k/a - the Apocrypha) is a good example of this. Commonly believed by Protestants to be books added by the Catholic Church after the reformation when in fact, history clearly shows us that they were included in the cannon in the first 400 years of the Church (when the 66 books today accepted by Protestants were included) and only rejected by the Protestants during the reformation. In fact, the King James Version of the Bible initially included the Apocrpha books.

Other doctrines like eternal security do not appear until 1500 years after the establishment of the Church.

Peter expressly warned us this would happen with respect to Paul’s teachings in 2 Peter 3:16:

"speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures"

Blessings,

Brian
 
Claire from DE:
How is the Reformed church the one to which Jesus gave authority?
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Those teaching from the authority—the scriptures—have the authority.
Claire from De:
Remember, the gospels were not written until several decades after Jesus’ death (along with many other writings) and the books of the New Testament were not officially separated out of the other writings of the time and declared inspired Scripture until almost 400 years later.
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The church had all of the writings by the end of the first century.
Claire from DE:
The Catholic Church was the church that did that. If the Catholic Church didn’t have the the authority to do that, then why do Protestants think those books (and not the other writings of the time) are the ones that are inspired?
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And we are indebted to God for using the early church to safeguard, compile and canonize His word.
 
sandusky said:
Those teaching from the authority—the scriptures—have the authority.
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Who declare Scripture have authority or inspired in the first place? The Early Church Fathers always regarded that Scripture and Tradition are Word of God.
The church had all of the writings by the end of the first century.
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The Church had the manuscripts and made copies. The origins were destroyed.
And we are indebted to God for using the early church to safeguard, compile and canonize His word.
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It’s because the Church is the pillar and bulwark of truth just as St. Paul said in his letter to 1 Tim 3:15. The Church safeguard it, compile it and canonized it.
 
brings this up again. I noticed a lot of Protestants seems no interest in this.
 
Because Protestants are afraid to answer questions like these. They are afraid the Catholic church will make sense and they are in error.
It is pride if you ask me.
 
We tried having this discussion on another thread but it went south on the last question.
It has to back up before the African synods. I think I will try asking this and if it goes south again. I am sure I am to blame.

Was there authoratative scripture (OT) prior to Hippo and Carthage? If you believe that there was reconized scripture, even prior to Christ, by what authority?

Obviously I believe that the OT and NT teach that there was authoratative scripture. I need to know what you think. Understand I am referring to the OT not the NT to clarify. Thank you.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Protestants, did Jesus Christ gave us a Church with authority?

If he did, then when why do some of your fore fathers ignore Church authority?

If he did not gave us an Church with authority, whom did Jesus handed his authority too? Did Church authority fell away when the last Apostle die?

How would it justifying adding 27 NT text in the Bible? Since the Holy Bible did not added the 27 NT text into the canon but rather local Synods of the Church.
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Jesus founded a Church, not an institution of man-made doctrines and dogmas. Huge difference.
 
SIA said:
Jesus founded a Church, not an institution of man-made doctrines and dogmas. Huge difference.
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Ummm . . . the Anglican Church ISN’T a man-made institution? You mean it was founded by Jesus over 2000 years ago?
WRONG.

It was born of divorce - as is ALL Protestantism.
 
elvisman said:
Ummm . . . the Anglican Church ISN’T a man-made institution? You mean it was founded by Jesus over 2000 years ago?
WRONG.

It was born of divorce - as is ALL Protestantism.
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The point though, at least from the perspective of many Protestants, isn’t that this institution is the Church or that one is. Rather it is that the Church is not a temporal institution at all, but the greater body of followers of Christ. Maybe I’m wrong about SIA’s position, but from my perspective saying that the Church isn’t defined by the organization and doctrine of the RCC that isn’t a claim that the Church is instead defined by some other denomination’s organization and doctrine.
 
a_mirror_dimly said:
The point though, at least from the perspective of many Protestants, isn’t that this institution is the Church or that one is. Rather it is that the Church is not a temporal institution at all, but the greater body of followers of Christ. Maybe I’m wrong about SIA’s position, but from my perspective saying that the Church isn’t defined by the organization and doctrine of the RCC that isn’t a claim that the Church is instead defined by some other denomination’s organization and doctrine.
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**That’s just plain nonsense. **The Church was set up with a hierarchy from the beginning.
Jesus told us that the Church is the final arbitor of truth (Matt. 18:15-18).

**Jesus’ prayer for unity in John 17 assures us that he didn’t want faction - "denominations. **St. Paul also warned against “denominations” (1 Cor. 1:11-15). Remember - denominations are man-made - God’s Church isn’t.

**There is *"ONE *Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism; **
ONE God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Eph. 4:5)
 
SIA said:
Jesus founded a Church, not an institution of man-made doctrines and dogmas. Huge difference.
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What is your defintion of a man-made doctrine? What are its characteristics?
 
elvisman said:
That’s just plain nonsense. The Church was set up with a hierarchy from the beginning.
Jesus told us that the Church is the final arbitor of truth (Matt. 18:15-18).

Jesus’ prayer for unity in John 17 assures us that he didn’t want faction - "denominations. St. Paul also warned against “denominations” (1 Cor. 1:11-15). Remember - denominations are man-made - God’s Church isn’t.

**There is *“ONE ***Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism;
ONE God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” (Eph. 4:5)
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👍 👍 👍
 
churchcamefirst said:
Because Protestants are afraid to answer questions like these. They are afraid the Catholic church will make sense and they are in error.
It is pride if you ask me.
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I’m still technically a protestant, but through knowledge of the early church and questioning what I was and have been taught over the years - I’ve come to believe that it’s the Orthodox church that “makes sense”.

Oddly enough it’s through my study of The Catholic Church that I was lead to this conclusion.

ddc
 
DDClark said:
I’m still technically a protestant, but through knowledge of the early church and questioning what I was and have been taught over the years - I’ve come to believe that it’s the Orthodox church that “makes sense”.
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True. If I were going to cross a river, it would be the Bosphorus, not the Tiber.
 
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