Protestants do not really believe in Sola Scriptura

[justasking4]

Claudius;4160071]If you believe that than you are an athiest.

What is your definition of an athiest?

God is a higher authority.

The Scriptures are from Him are they not? Do they not derive their authority from Him?

God speaks to us now through the Church and if you do not believe what the Church teaches than you do not believe in God.

And the message continues through the Church. If you don’t believe that than you are not a Christian.

What do you do when the church contradicts or circumvents the Scriptures?

We know that God wants all to be saved because GOD says so. Humans just happened to write that down for the benifit of future generations.

You think that the Scriptures were just an “afterthought” for future generations?

God was pleased by this action and inspired the writtings to be free from error. But you had better watch your word. The paper and ink have NO authority. God has the authority.

I agree. God also stands behind the Scriptures which gives them their authority.

If you believe that than you are an athiest.

What is higher than something that is inspired-inerrant? How about the one that made it so.

We know that this was God. Correct?

Besides, how do we know that the Bible is inspired? Really, how do we know?

There are a number of tests to determine this.

Here is a lesson in OBJECTIVE REALITY for you.

God exist. If you don’t believe that you are an athiest and the enemy of God.

God is All Powerful. *If you don’t believe this than you do not deserve the name of Christian.

God is all perfect. *See above.

God created the universe. *See above.

View attachment 4030

God did not create the universe because some man made book says that he created the universe. He created the universe on his own authority and power.

True. However its the “Book” that describes how He did.

God desires all mankind to go to heaven and claim the dignity that he created us for. He wants to free us from our faults. God wants this because he loves us. *See above. God does not love us because we wrote a book saying that God has to love us. We do not force God to love us. We have no claim on God. God would be completely justified in damning every one of us and forgetting about us. Thankfully he does not do that.

Agreed

Because God loves us, he has done a lot of things for us. One of those things that he did was to come to us and die for us to remove our sins from us. *See above.

Before he died on the cross for us he founded a Church. *See above.

True

He blessed that Church and promised to that Church that it would be inspired and inerrant. *See above.

Not True

That Church is at the service of Allmighty God. *See above.

True

That Church is responsible for bringing the message of Christ to the world. *See above.

true

One of the ways, but not the only way, that the Church brings the message of Christ to the world is by sharing with the world many of the wonderful things that the Church has written about God.

true

God was pleased with this action and since God promised to the Church that they would always teach the Truth, the inspired the writtings of the Church to be free from error. *See above.

Not true. The church has erred in a number of ways.

So here is where we are. God exist of his own authority. The Church exist because God created it. The Church’s teachings are free from error and are inspired by God because God promised that to us.

Not true

The Church created the Bible.

Not entirely true

The Church exist by the authority of God and the Bible exist by the authority of the Church.

Not true for the Bible.

The ultimate source of course is God but the Church was charged with the actual writting. Who put the pen to the paper, Catholics.

The authors of Scripture were never known as Catholics.

What the Bible talks about is inspired and free from error but the Bible doesn’t talk about everything. The Church does talk about all matter of human life and experiance and the Church, because the Church is inspired and free from error, gives us the teachings that we need to be in God’s grace.

The church is not inspired and free from error.

They don’t talk about condom in the Bible but it really doesn’t need to be discussed in the Bible because the Church is here to teach us. The Bible supports the Catholic Church.

The Bible does not support all that the Catholic church is.

And on a side note, for you protestants out there who claim to believe in Sola Scriptura, why do you go against the Bible. Every protestant faith believes in and teaches at least one doctrine that the Bible stands in direct opposition to.

Do you have a couple of examples of this?

Why do you do that if you believe in sola scriptura?

Sola Scriptura is true thats why.

Only the Catholic Church teaches and lives in complete accord with the Bible. Not because we read the Bible and said “oh that is what we have to do.” The Catholic Church is in complete accord with the bible because the source of our inerrancy and the source of the Bible’s inerrancy is the same, GOD.

Where does the Bible say that Mary was immaculately concieved or taken directly to heaven ?

God is the Truth. The Catholic Church lives and preaches the Truth. The Bible also preaches the Truth. The Truth will always agree with each other. There is no difference of opinion in the Truth. The Truth is oneness. The Truth is simple. The Truth can be observed in Objective Reality. The Truth leads us to God because he is the source of all truth.

God is all truth. The Church is all truth, since God is the source, that has to do with human life. The Church let us say for example, teaches 1000 truthful things and Zero untruthful things. The Bible teaches 500 truthful things and Zero untruthful things. The reason is that we just couldn’t write everything down.

Now I want to send out a very strong warning to the people who say they believe in sola scriptura. If you place the authority of the Bible above the authority of God you are committing a sin similar to the sin of Eve in the Garden. You are taking authority in the wrong order. In the Garden authority went from God to Adam to Eve. Eve and Adam corrupted that and instead wanted to obey the snake, a created being, to Eve to Adam. This was the reverse of how God established it. You committ the same sin when you try to raise the Bible to a station above the Church and indeed above God himsself. You take a Holy thing like the Bible and defile it by worshipping it in place of the One True God. You should take heed to what the Bible itself preaches against this. God will not leave unpunished. You will not have false gods before the One True God.

Every time you say you believe in sola scriptura, you exclude God from faith. God’s authority trumps the Bible any day. Sola means ONLY. If the Bible is your ONLY, then there is no room for God in you.

Also, you have to seriously question yourself. If you believe in sola scriptura than why don’t you read the bible? Why do you blow off teachings in the bible that are too hard for you? Why don’t you really live as the Bible instructs? The Bible says you must be baptized, you protestants say you don’t have to be. Why is that? The Bible says you must eat the flesh of Jesus and drink his blood, but protestants say you don’t have to. Why is that? The Bible says you must obey the authority of the Church, but protestants say they don’t have to. Why is that? The Bible says that non Jews do not have to be circumsized but protestants are now saying that they must be. Why is that? The Bible says that you must confess your sins, but protestants say you don’t have to. Why is that? The Bible says that the Church has the power to forgive sins, but protestants say the Church doesn’t. Why is that? The Bible says that you can loose your salvation, but protestants say you can’t. Why is that? The Bible says that you must perform works of mercy, but protestants say you don’t have to. Why is that? The Bible says that God now calls all mankind to salvation but some protestants say that only white people can go to heaven. Why is that? The Bible say that Jesus is right at this very moment offering his blood on the alter in the sanctuary in heaven, pleading to the father for us, but protestants say his sacrifice is over and done with. Why is that? They Bible says that Peter had authority over the other aposltes, but protestants say he does not. Why is that? The Bible say that Peter wrote at least one letter from Rome, but protestants say he never went there. Why is that?

Every protestant faith preaches teachings that the Bible directly opposes. Why? If you really believe in sola scriptura, why do you preach anti-biblical things? Why do you not follow the bible faithfully the way Catholics do?

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[guanophore]

No. Is it not true that all that Christ taught can only be found in the Scriptures?

No.

Only those who have trusted in Christ are free from its power.

This is an interesting statement, especially in view of your previous comments about yourself.

It was from these teachings i.e. the NT that the leaders-teachers of the church were to teach from and no further.

No. The Teachings did not come from the NT, but before it. The Apostles were never limited to Scripture for their teachings. The TEachings all came from Jesus.

Not even a catholic can accept or believe all that it teaches since there are contradictions if you do.

They only appear to be contradictions to those who do not understand.

 

[Claudius]

To Claudius. For one thing, where in the world did I say abortion & using a condom is ok. Where are you coming from? All I am asking is beware of the spirit in which you talk to people. I, like you, struggle with having the right attitude & words to say to my brothers & sisters. It is constructive criticism. Those words were destructive.

There are many protestant groups that are using the Bible to say that condoms and abortion are ok. That is sinful in and of itself. That brings a bad name to all protestants. And besides, I have never meet a protestant who did not hate Lord Jesus in the Eucharist. That is a sin. We must all Stop Sinning. We are destroying the world with the all of our sins. We must all repent and turn back to God.

I will not sit by and let people offend God. I love God too much. I don’t let people offend my wife, my family, my race, my Church or, most importantly, my God. One sin offends an infinite God, INFINITELY. Please think about that and stop your fellow protestants from using the Bible to preach sin.

 

[guanophore]

i do have all of it. For centuries the church did accept the DC’s books as fully inspired-inerrant. Thats why they were considered DC.

You are misinformed, ja4. this is NOT why they are called Deuterocanonical. It means “second canon”. It is a collection of Sacred Writings that is distinct from the other collections.

If Luther or Calvin were prophets or apostles then i would be in a bind but we know that is not the case at all. They are but men.

News flash, ja4. The Apostles and Prophets are also “but men”. It is not their humanity that made what they wrote inspired/inerrant, but the Spirit of God. It is that same Spirit that Jesus sent to “guide into all Truth”.

Not so. If the theology is grounded in the Scriptures then i’m on solid ground.

How can a faith that grounds its doctrines in Scripture be man-made?

Because the Scriptures must be interpreted in the light of what those who wrote them believed. When this does not happen, all kinds of misinterpretations occur. For example, Jesus is not God, and the HS is not a person, and that the Scriptures are the ultimate rule of faith.

There were many officals in the Catholic church who thought that the DC’s should not be considered canonical. Even Cardinal Cajetan rejected the DC’s as being inspired-inerrant.

The reason they are accepted is because Jesus and the Apostles used them. There are many people, some of them officials, that do not follow the example of Christ.

What do you think your doing? Its your opinion also.

No, it is the Apostolic Teaching.

Not so. Did Jesus believe that the OT was inspired i.e. the Word of God?

Yes, but He was using the Septuagint. This is why He told those that rejected part of it “you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God”. Many of the Jews of HIs day did not recognize which books were inspired.

Do you agree that the Scriptures are inspired-inerrant? Are there any other writings that are inspired-inerrant?

Possibly. The Church surely is, since it is also “God Breathed”.

Do the church fathers teach that Mary was taken into heaven and is queen of heaven?

Try to avoid derailing another thread, ja4.

There is much that the catholic church teaches that is not found in Scripture. The faith of the apostles is not the same as the catholic church’s.

The fact that you can see there is more to the Apostolic faith than what you see in scripture should be enough to prove that Scripture was never meant to be complete. It seems to you that the faith of the Apostles is not the same as the Catholic faith for a variety of reasons. Sola Scriptura is the main cause of this misperception. Since you believe that all they taught is found in the NT, you are missing a lot of it. Furthermore, your posts make it clear that you do not understand what the Apostles, and therefore, what the Church teaches.

How can something that is derived from the inspired-inerrant Word of God be man made?

Because “derivation” happens in the mind of ignorant, fallible people. Even the most sincere person is limited by their own education and experience.

 

[Claudius]

What is your definition of an athiest?

Anyone who does not believe in the One True God fully and completely. Any backsliding at all will lead to practical atheism.

The Scriptures are from Him are they not? Do they not derive their authority from Him?

They have authority because the Church has authority. The Church has authority because the One True God that we preach has authority.

What do you do when the church contradicts or circumvents the Scriptures?

The Church never has, but the same can not be said for you protestants who refuse to even read the Bible or to stop worhipping it. You remind me of the Jews who were worshipping the snake staff so much that God commanded it be destroyed.

So why do protestants contradict the Bible? Really, if you believe in it so much, why do you contradict it? Isn’t it inerrant? Don’t you believe that?

You think that the Scriptures were just an “afterthought” for future generations?

Step one, event happens. Step two, someone writes it down. I would say the writting comes after the happening. It isn’t like the Catholic Church wrote the scriptures and they suddenly happened like in the Neverending story. It all had to happen first before someone wrote it down.

I agree. God also stands behind the Scriptures which gives them their authority.

Good than you should do as the scriptures say to do and become a faithful Christian by joining the Catholic Church and believing all that Christ Jesus taught us and live as Christ Jesus enjoined us to live.

Oh, but that is too hard so you will twist the scriptures or just ignore them or throw out a book if you don’t like it. So much for your belief in sola scriptura. Yah, I guess sola scriptura is easy to believe if you throw out or ignore the parts you don’t like.

Don’t understand? Ask a question. I will answer you.

We know that this was God. Correct?

Who put the pen to the paper? Oh, it was the Catholics. “No son, we don’t believe that Catholics wrote the Bible, the Bible magically formed in the air and came down to us.”

There are a number of tests to determine this.

What? The same test that the muslims use to say the Koran is inerrant?

Here is the test. The Bible is infallible because the Church that wrote it, The Catholic Church and only the Catholic Church, is infallible. The Church is able to be infallible because an infallible and Omnipotent God made it so and promised to keep it so. To deny this is to deny that God has the power to do it and make yourself an athiest.

True. However its the “Book” that describes how He did.

Because Catholics decided to write it down.

Not True

If you don’t believe that than you aren’t a Christian. You can go ahead and turn in your “I’m a Christian” card right now.

Not true. The church has erred in a number of ways.

If you believe that then you are calling Lord Jesus a liar and are not a Christian.

Not true

Then you are not a Christian because this is true in Objective Reality.

Not entirely true

Yes, entirely true.

Not true for the Bible.

So we are back to “the Bible magically formed in the air”. Maybe this is the belief that causes protestants to debase themselves and worship the Bible.

The authors of Scripture were never known as Catholics.

Yes they were. You need to learn some Greek. St. John was still alive when Christians were calling their Church the Catholic Church.

The church is not inspired and free from error.

We are back to you calling Jesus a liar.

The Bible does not support all that the Catholic church is.

All that the Church teaches is not mentioned in the Bible but all that the Bible teaches is taught by the Church. You can not find one thing, NOT EVEN ONE THING, that is in the Bible that contradicts what the Catholic Church teaches. Not one teaching of the Catholic Church contradicts the Bible in any way whatsoever.

However, the same can not be said for protestants. You refuse to worship Christ in direct contradiction to the Bible. You refuse to eat his flesh, in direct contradition to the Bible. You divorce, in direct contradicition to the Bible. The list goes on and on.

Do you have a couple of examples of this?

How many do you want. I have listed many already but I suppose you are good and looking at words but not actually reading them. What else will explain how you completely ignore huge sections of the Bible.

Sola Scriptura is true thats why.

No it isn’t. September 11th isn’t in the Bible. That is true. That event happened. The Bible was written with a specific purpose and intention and it is a great sacrelige that you take a holy thing like the Bible and twist it to avoid giving worship to God.

The Bible itself says that sola scriptura is not true.

Where does the Bible say that Mary was immaculately concieved or taken directly to heaven ?

The Bible doesn’t have to say it. It is true in objective reality. Where does the Bible say that the United States of America exist? Objective Reality exist and it is time you woke up and realized it.

“We can abort children and use condoms because they aren’t in the Bible.”

No you can not.
I noticed that you didn’t have a response to my last sections. Did the truth hurt too much? Good, than you should to a through self examination and throw yourself down and beg for the mercy of Allmight God. I don’t want you to go to hell. It is time for you to leave the lies in the past and accept Jesus fully. It is not too late for you. Jesus is in heaven right now offering his blood and pleading to the Father. He can save you but you must believe the things which the Church teaches to be true and you must live your life as Christ has enjoined.

The truth is right there waiting for you.

I know you may have family problems. People will disown you and shun you for accepting Christ. In that you will be blessed. Turn away from your unbelief and believe. Accept Jesus and be saved. It won’t be easy. Americans hate Christians on the whole. Stop being like the muslims and become a full Christian.

I will offer prayer for you and hope to hear your conversion story in the future.

 

[guanophore]

But we must stand against them when they preach sin. This is not heaping the sins of the father on the son, it is holding the son accountable for hisown sins.

I agree that each person must be accountable for their own sins, but this is God’s job. Perhaps you need to read the conditions for mortal sin? Actions done in ignorance do not constitute mortal sin. Furthermore, we are not to stand against people, but sins.

What the Catholic Church teaches is right and what protestants teach is wrong. They are teaching their congregations to sin and telling them that it is a sin to do right.

This is a sweeping generalizing statement, and reflects bigotry. There is a great deal of “right” in what many Protestants teach.

We must not tollerate this. We need to understand what they teach and hold them accoutable for when they teach sin.

It is not our job to take the log out of our brothers eye. Jesus was clear that we are to let the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest.

Jesus also commanded us to admonish the sinner. He told us that if a man sins he will die, but if we do not inform him of his sin, we will be responisble for that man’s death. If we love the protestants as the church commands us to do, we must confront them and admonish them so that they will repent.

This instruction was given to those in the community of faith. Therefore, it makes much more sense to start this within our Catholic faith.

Protestant preachers are teaching their congregations to sin. By the way, Catholics are the community that belongs to Christ. Protest ants don’t want to be. We need to change that.

This is just a statement of bigotry and prejudice. Furthermore, “we” are not in a position to change anyone but ourselves. It is the job of the Holy Spirit to change the hearts of people. Jesus called us to love and bear one another’s burdens.

I don’t want them to go to hell. I want as many of the to go to heaven as possible and that is just not going to happen as long as they listen to ministers tell them that they should have a fat 401k and a lincoln towncar.

You don’t know that. There are as many Catholics preaching error as there are protestants, an dhaving a fat 401K and a Lincoln will not keep anyone out of heaven.

that is not going to happen as long as they preach racism, and contraception and abortion.

I can’t see that there is any racism worse than what you have represented here yourself.

I sure hope you are not going to tell me that Mother Teresa and Jenna Jamison are on the same level of nearnes to God. We are the Catholics Church, you know, Saints, Bishops, Eucharist, the holy scriptures.

To the extent that there are saintly persons in Protestant communities (and there are many that put Catholics to shame) they are close to God. Only He can see the heart.

Are you going to tell me that a faithful Catholic who recieves Jesus in the Eucharist is on the same level of nearness to God as a protestant preacher who teaches his congregation to HATE the euchrist and calls Christianity a pagan religion and want to destroy every Catholic Church in the world.

No, but I can tell you that this is a very narrow slice of Protestantism, and that most people that do these things do so in ignorance.

I don’t know if you go to protestant “services” often but you can believe they teach that and want that. They put it on tv and send books to people in the mail. If we let them have their way, America would be a bloodbath with the blood of myrtered Catholics running through the streets.

You seem to be genuinely afraid of Protestants, and I can only think that you have good reason. I am sorry that you have been wounded, and I pray that you will not continue to hold this sin against them, for they know not what they do.

I have to disagree with you. They know what the Catholic Church teaches.

I will agree that there are some that do, and there are some that are mean and spiteful. Most, however, are misinformed, and ignorant.

The first is that when they get together in their Anti-Catholic services they talk about Catholic teachings and denounce them. “Those evil Catholics believe that Jesus is the word of God but we know better, the Bible is the word of God.” They teach their congregations to HATE all Catholic teachings. How can they do that? They do that by finding out what the Church teaches and teaching their congregations to fear and hate all the truth that the Catholic Church stands for.

I think this is not the case, On the contrary, I think that most Protestants have no idea what the Church teaches. I also think that most Catholics don’t either. If they did, there would not be so many disobedient Catholics.

Second reason I know is from their attack tactics. They find out that the Catholic Church teaches something, le’s call it X. The Church teaches that X is very bad and if you do X you will go to hell unless you repent and ask for forgiveness. Protestants find out what X is and then make up a lie and tell faithful Catholics who believe that X is wrong because the Church has taught them that X is wrong, that the Church is in fact doing X. This will make the faithful Catholic angry and outraged that the Church would do X, because X is so wrong.

I think this is a perfect example of the fact that what most Protesants believe the Church teaches is inaccurate.

The goal of all of this is to get the person to leave the Catholic Church. Anything but Catholic, the ABCs of protestantism. The poor person who falls for this knows, because the Church taught them, that X is wrong and once they believe that the Church does X, which it really does not, the person then leaves the Church. The really ironic part is that once the person leaves the Catholic Church and joins the protestants in protesting against Christ they are then told by the protestant minister that X is in fact really ok. Please, go ahead and sin and debase yourself doing X all day long. They are decievers.

I must say, it worked on me. I was ignorant of my faith, and left the Church for 20 + years to sojourn amongst Protestants. It works because Catholics are ignorant of their faith too.

All this conversation started over talking about protestants believing or not believing in sola scriptura. They really don’t believe in that. They just say that so that they can cover their ears and go “blah, blah, blah that’s not in the bible” whenever Catholic try to tell them the truth. If they really believed in sola scriptura then they would be forced to not believein sola scriptura by the testimony of the Bible itself against them and to become Catholic.

I agree.

They do not believe in the Gospel. They make up in their heads way ahead of time what they believe and skim through the bible, not willing to be taught by the Bible, until they find a part the can be twisted to support what they predecided they believe.

The vast majority of Protestants are very sincere, and read the Bible in order to more fully follow Christ.

Anyone who reads the bible honestly will come away rejecting slavery but other have twisted the bible to say that we must keep slaves. They twist the bible to support racism, debauchery, prostetution, fornication and all other manner of sin.

With all due respect, Catholics did all these things before there was ever any such thing as a Protestant!

There are still protestants out there who are telling people that they have to be circumsized to get into heaven. They are teaching once saved always saved which is anit-biblical, the bible specifically states the opposite. They teach the rapture, another anti-Biblical protestant teaching. They teach Faith alone, another anti-biblical teaching. They divorce, they contracept and practice abortion. And on top of all of that, they teach that you don’t have to be Baptized. The Bible stand in direct opposition to all these protestant teachings.

Which only goes to prove that one can 'honestly" read scripture and misunderstand what it says.

Any Catholic who knows the truth and does not confront the protestants with it to save some of them, I must say, you are some of the cruelest people I could ever imagine. There is nothing more heartless then letting someone sin and telling them nothing. Those people need us. They need us to be the light. We shouldn’t hide under a basket, we should shine so that some of them may see. We are the salt of the earth. We can not sit here and do nothing. We must confront them, otherwise we are good for nothing but to be cast out and tred underfoot.

I was not suggesting that one should not stand up for the truth. I was suggesting that one might be more effective if one found a method that did not involve cutting them off at the knees.

It isn’t like we are asking them learn Latin or Syriac. We are asking them to repent and become full Christians in the Church that Lord Jesus, the second person of the Blessed Trinity, founded.

We can start with the shortcomings in oursleves,and in our own pews, of which there are many.

 

[dbonneville]

Crazy thread but hey guess what! I was on track to be an Anglican Priest and guess what stopped me in my tracks three weeks ago!

Sola Scriptura!

It’s wrong.

I was raised and confirmed Catholic and left in college for all things Protestant.

20 years, a few church plants and a Bible degree later, my spirit was utterly weary of the never ending confusion, rancor, stupidity, willful ignorance, scripture gymnastics, and word peddling of my Protestant brothers, if many can even be called that. I had not really thought of Rome in 20 years. Why should I? Rome is wrong of course. But I was double-minded about all things Protestant. Then I realized that maybe I wasn’t protesting anything really. But man I know some angry Protestants.

Out of desperation, my spirit broken because logic ran it’s course in Protestantism to despair and confusion, I took one look back at Rome. Could Peter be it?

3 days later, I’m at Mass. This is a miracle. Sola Scripture is the ultimate glass-jaw. It took about 2 seconds after I realized, really, the church had no NT for 400 years. The Tradition was present then and logic follows it is present now. The suffering of my soul was healed in a matter of days.

It was either Rome, or the silly “blood lineage” logic of Protestant thinking which leads to division on division.

The tree is bad! Don’t eat from it! Take a chance on faith, I urge you. My testimony is true, and peace is flooding in as I write this.

Thank you especially to the Blessed Virgin and St. Peter, but most of all Jesus. Blessed Trinity! I’m rejoicing…

Don’t delay. Get yourself the Catechism of the Catholic Church in print or at the Vatican website. Open your mind, be tentative, be vulnerable, but above all be willing to obey. Jesus has called us to the obedience of faith, which last time I checked, wasn’t about my private interpretation.

Private interpretation is demonic, and you will never have peace while you are sitting in the driver’s seat. You can’t follow God on your own terms. That’s all Sola Scriptura. In fact, it’s alarming that that the Protestant line “Where did God ever say…” this or that about the Catholic faith is just like Eve in the Garden with the serpent, “Did God really say…”.

I urge you to give pause and think how the fruit in the garden was good to make one wise. Sola Scriptura, your own private interpretation! The parallel is stunning. Be stunned. It’s the lie!

When we don’t trust, we question authority which leads to evil. Sola Scriptura must be of the devil.

Submit to God and do as he, through his church, has told you to do. You will be relieved of the burden of pursuing knowledge of your own grasping. Instead, you will have what you will be given, and it will give rest to your heart. You cannot find it yourself, as you realize right now. This is true.

But if you have believed the lie of Sola Scriptura, God has mercy. More than you can imagine, and He is willing right now to wipe the scales from your eyes, if you turn and trust him. Open your heart and your mind, and be willing to trust. You will not be disappointed.

And I haven’t even been to confession yet. Going this week if I can get an appointment!

Sola Scriptura…what a glass-jawed idea!

In Christ,

Douglas

 

[historyb]

Sola Scriptura!

Do you really know what that means

 

[dbonneville]

Not sure if you are being funny

Sola Scriptura is the belief that all one needs is “scripture only” as opposed to “scripture plus something” which would be the Tradition. It also means that Scripture is clear in and of itself, and interprets itself.

As one in the process of reverting to Catholicism, it’s clear that Scripture is not clear to a rational thinking person all by itself as the Reformers assert. That is why the Reformers and subsequently few Protestants agree on so little, unfortunately. There are many rational Protestants who really believe, in good faith, that they have come to the right conclusion about this or that in Scripture. Some assert cantankerously that their way is the only way, but many good hearted ones hold this little mysterious problem in loving tension. Some become Catholics. Others, through no fault of their own, continue on love but are impaired.

 

[dbonneville]

Does your signature mean that you swam the Tiber but are swimming back? Explain that for me…I don’t get it.

 

[historyb]

Not sure if you are being funny

Sola Scriptura is the belief that all one needs is “scripture only” as opposed to “scripture plus something” which would be the Tradition. It also means that Scripture is clear in and of itself, and interprets itself.

.

Yes. Most really don’t understand doctrines that’s why it so easy to go from Protestant to Catholicism. I’ll have more tomorrow going to bed. For now here is what Sola Scriptura is:

the assertion that the Bible as God’s written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter (“Scripture interprets Scripture”), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.

 

[historyb]

Does your signature mean that you swam the Tiber but are swimming back? Explain that for me…I don’t get it.

Yep, I was swimming to rome and turned around, right now I’m stopped in the middle. Floating

 

[po18guy]

Yep, I was swimming to rome and turned around, right now I’m stopped in the middle. Floating

Read into the earliest writings of the church fathers. See which church it resembles. Join that one.

In all things, seek the truth.

Christ’s peace.

 

[dbonneville]

Well, Rome isn’t a mirage, but Protestant unity is! We are all like mists and vapors, and everything Protestants build decays. We witnessed, in 2008, the final chapter of the Anglican Communion, for instance. 500 years of experiments in unity. All it could do, and all anything Protestant can do, is be externally consistent with its internal essence: division.

Outside Rome, there are camps of ever rising, ever collapsing shanty towns. Some are blessed pockets of peace. If you are swimming back, I hope you find a place of rest like that. But if dwelling in tents has worn you out, get yourself across the river. The devil runs through the shanty town tent villages with impunity, because no one voice can say “no.”

 

[historyb]

Read into the earliest writings of the church fathers. See which church it resembles. Join that one.

In all things, seek the truth.

Christ’s peace.

I am and it doesn’t lead to rome, also while the Church Fathers were wise they could be wrong when held up to the light of Scripture

 

[Mea_Culpa]

Crazy thread but hey guess what! I was on track to be an Anglican Priest and guess what stopped me in my tracks three weeks ago!

Sola Scriptura!

It’s wrong.

I was raised and confirmed Catholic and left in college for all things Protestant.

20 years, a few church plants and a Bible degree later, my spirit was utterly weary of the never ending confusion, rancor, stupidity, willful ignorance, scripture gymnastics, and word peddling of my Protestant brothers, if many can even be called that. I had not really thought of Rome in 20 years. Why should I? Rome is wrong of course. But I was double-minded about all things Protestant. Then I realized that maybe I wasn’t protesting anything really. But man I know some angry Protestants.

Out of desperation, my spirit broken because logic ran it’s course in Protestantism to despair and confusion, I took one look back at Rome. Could Peter be it?

3 days later, I’m at Mass. This is a miracle. Sola Scripture is the ultimate glass-jaw. It took about 2 seconds after I realized, really, the church had no NT for 400 years. The Tradition was present then and logic follows it is present now. The suffering of my soul was healed in a matter of days.

It was either Rome, or the silly “blood lineage” logic of Protestant thinking which leads to division on division.

The tree is bad! Don’t eat from it! Take a chance on faith, I urge you. My testimony is true, and peace is flooding in as I write this.

Thank you especially to the Blessed Virgin and St. Peter, but most of all Jesus. Blessed Trinity! I’m rejoicing…

Don’t delay. Get yourself the Catechism of the Catholic Church in print or at the Vatican website. Open your mind, be tentative, be vulnerable, but above all be willing to obey. Jesus has called us to the obedience of faith, which last time I checked, wasn’t about my private interpretation.

Private interpretation is demonic, and you will never have peace while you are sitting in the driver’s seat. You can’t follow God on your own terms. That’s all Sola Scriptura. In fact, it’s alarming that that the Protestant line “Where did God ever say…” this or that about the Catholic faith is just like Eve in the Garden with the serpent, “Did God really say…”.

I urge you to give pause and think how the fruit in the garden was good to make one wise. Sola Scriptura, your own private interpretation! The parallel is stunning. Be stunned. It’s the lie!

When we don’t trust, we question authority which leads to evil. Sola Scriptura must be of the devil.

Submit to God and do as he, through his church, has told you to do. You will be relieved of the burden of pursuing knowledge of your own grasping. Instead, you will have what you will be given, and it will give rest to your heart. You cannot find it yourself, as you realize right now. This is true.

But if you have believed the lie of Sola Scriptura, God has mercy. More than you can imagine, and He is willing right now to wipe the scales from your eyes, if you turn and trust him. Open your heart and your mind, and be willing to trust. You will not be disappointed.

And I haven’t even been to confession yet. Going this week if I can get an appointment!

Sola Scriptura…what a glass-jawed idea!

In Christ,

Douglas

Thank you for your beautiful witness. There is no defense for sola scriptura. The people on here who try to defend it mostly try to change the subject or ask things like, “what is sola scriptura”? pretending not to know and then attacking the authority of the Church. There is no Biblical defense of sola scriptura. It is a house of cards - or as you say, a glass-jawed idea.

This is post 627 on this thread, and nobody has provided a clear teaching of sola scriptura in the Bible. That’s because there isn’t one.

 

[historyb]

Sola scriptura (Latin ablative, “by scripture alone”) is the assertion that the Bible as God’s written word is self-authenticating, clear (perspicuous) to the rational reader, its own interpreter (“Scripture interprets Scripture”), and sufficient of itself to be the final authority of Christian doctrine.

Source

 

[dbonneville]

I am and it doesn’t lead to rome, also while the Church Fathers were wise they could be wrong when held up to the light of Scripture

You are right. They could be wrong. Now it’s a gamble. Eve took the gamble and lost. Think about the dilema. It’s safe not to trust yourself. It’s faith to not trust yourself while entrusting yourself to others. Abraham did the unthinkable, giving up his very existence (Isaac), but trusted. And God handed him…Jesus! The gamble pays off for those who have faith. Keep your eye on Rome and don’t trust your judgement. Minds brighter and keener than ours laid down their logic for love and were rewarded.

You might lose by trusting, but you cannot win by doubting. Faith is required, and faith that is hard is faith. Faith in one’s own self is an oxymoron. Faith in self is athiesm. Ask any athiest!

 

[historyb]

I’ll trust in God, not rome for now. I can do no other

 

[dbonneville]

(“Scripture interprets Scripture”)

This means “I interpret Scripture”, based on the testimony of the usage of the phrase. Maybe it meant something else at one time (maybe not), but it has sure come to mean only one thing - that “I” decide what Scripture says about itself. That is functionally the outcome, no matter the intent. Simply look around. Read anything by two different Protestants. Roomful of mirrors, and agony of soul.