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justasking4
Guest
This question also applies to catholics. Even in the Catholic church there are a number of different interpretations on all kinds of doctrines and practices. Does this cause you concern?Hello historyb. I have a question that I am asking in curiosity, not malice. I haven’t done so myself, but am curious if folks believing in Sola Scriptura and perhaps belong to a specific denomination have compared their interpretations of Scripture with any other Protestant denomination whose members believe only in Sola Scriptura? Are there any differences in interpretations? A giant task ,but one I think I would tackle as much as I could IF I believed in Sola Scriptura.
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elts1956
Guest
Justasking, I will ask this of you too. If you believe in Sola Scriptura, which to us Catholics (at least this Catholic), means you interpret Scripture for yourself, or the leader of your denomination does this, how many other interpretations from other denominations believing only in Sola Scripture have you compared with yours? Are they the same? I think if I believed only in Sola Scriptura, I would want to do some checking.
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guanophore
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Because of the nature of the doctrine. If Scripture is to be the ultimate authority, then by definition, it should claim to have that authority. Otherwise, you are depending on an extra-biblical doctrine. As you are fond of saying “I wouldn’t want to be in a position to have to defend that!”
On the contrary, false teachers coming in are not the same as Truth going out. In fact, what refutes those trying to bring in falsehoods is the Truth, grounded in Christ, who is the head. Of course we need to constantly be on guard against the intrusions of falsehood and error. The best guard is to cling to the truth that has been revealed to us from Jesus through the Apostles. It seems that you have misidentified sinners with the Church.
Yes, the problem is that Scripture cannot carry authority. It requires a person to do this. One has to be able to discern, make decisions, and do acts of the will. Scripture is Holy, Inspired, and Inerrant, but does not take the place of God’s annointed teachers. If it did, He would not have had to build a Church. He could have just committed things to writing.
The other problem is that “contrary” is in the eye of the reader. Just as JW’s can read scripture and see that Christ is not God, so a SS can read and not see that we are commanded to retain the Traditions as they were delivered by the Apostles.
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elts1956
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I have asked in a couple of posts if those who believe only in Sola Scriptura have checked out the interpretations of the other various denomination’s interpretations believing in Sola Scriptura. I am sure if they did, they would find many more things to argue about.
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justasking4
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:
What is it?
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guanophore
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off topic :tsktsk:
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justasking4
Guest
What i have found is that on the major doctrines they are the same. They believe that Christ was God and died for our sins. They believe that the Scriptures are inspired-inerrant.Justasking, I will ask this of you too. If you believe in Sola Scriptura, which to us Catholics (at least this Catholic), means you interpret Scripture for yourself, or the leader of your denomination does this, how many other interpretations from other denominations believing only in Sola Scripture have you compared with yours? Are they the same? I think if I believed only in Sola Scriptura, I would want to do some checking.
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elts1956
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Thou dost contradict thyself. According to earlier posts, if it ain’t in the Bible, it ain’t true.
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justasking4
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I never said that. Not all true things are in the Bible.
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elts1956
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Sort of makes the head spin doesn’t it? :hypno: Now if I could only remember…
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elts1956
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Re read some of your posts about the teachings of the Catholic Church that are an extentuation of what is said in the Bible. Didn’t you say that those teachings can’t be infallible because they are not in the Bible? Sorry if I misinterpreted.
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elts1956
Guest
Okay, what makes the Catholic Church so different from that? If you have looked at the Catholic Church closely enough to note differences, then have you looked at other churches to note differeneces?
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elts1956
Guest
Justasking, you are probably right. Unless Catholics pay very close attention and fully understand the teachings, beliefs and doctrines stated by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, you may get as many different interpretations regarding doctrine and practice as there are uneducated Catholics. BUT if you were to ask those who have studied these same doctrines/beliefs for years of their lives, the clergy having the responsibility of seeing that the truth of the dogmas are maintained, you would find all of these knowledgeable individuals will agree on all interpretations. Some “may” disagree, but to them this means only they will study and have discourse until the interpretation is agreed upon by all. That is why the Catholic Church has all the truth. We have many cross checks such as reading the early writings of the Apostles, the Church Fathers, following approved Tradition/tradition,by going back and checking/rechecking what was believed and stated in centuries before. No doctrine or dogma given infallibility has ever been contradicted, nor changed in the teachings of the Catholic Church.
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elts1956
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Maybe I’m just more curiouser than you are?
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Claudius
Guest
I can see that your manner is a lot gentler than mine. That is fine. I do not disagree with what you have said but I do feel like I must confront then when they preach things against the scritpures. Perhaps I choose harsh words because English is my second language and I have a fear that I am not getting through to them.
One thing I must say though is that if the word Christian means anything at all than there will be people who are Christians and those who are not. You can not just say “we are Christians” and automatically be entitled to that term. Remember, there are people who do not believe that Jesus is the son of God but claim to be Christians.
Christians should hold themselves to a higher standard. We should be a glass house, so that the light of the one true faith can shine out. I also think we have to throw rocks from time to time. We have to throw rocks at those who hide behind an iron currtain.
Believing in sola scriptura is separating people from Christ. The scriptures were never meant to be used that way. It truely saddens me that a holy object like the scriptures would be used for such an unholy purpose.
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Claudius
Guest
I try to forgive. It is very hard. Somedays I think that I have completely fogiven them and other days the old memories come back very strong. I lost two children and I have to carry the visible scars on my body that I see everyday. It is especially hard to take when I get those little pamplets in the mail. You know the ones.
Today is my younger brother’s birthday and I can not even tell him happy birthday. I had to severe every relationship I had in order to convert to Catholicism and I lost everything at their hands including my freedom for some time.
If it is sola scriptura that caused them to behave like this than that alone proves that sola scriptura can’t be true if it causes people to do things that are agaist the teachings of Christ.
For me, trust must be earned. The Catholic Church has earned that trust. The Catholic Church has tried very hard to show the world that it is worthy of trust and it really gets to me when people just ignore that and attack for no reason.
If my enemy is hungry I will feed him. If he is thirsty, I will give him to drink. But I will not give him ear to preach hate at me.
The “bible alone” denies faith. Faith is believing that something is true because of someone esle’s word. It is not believing that something is true based on what is written in a book.
I read the bible very actively. I complete it every year, and that is reading also the parts that the protestants threw out. I have never meet a protestant who had ever read these parts. I wish more Catholics did read the bible. Then they would be able to know that sola scriptura is completely false and could sleep with peace of heart and not worry about the false accusations of protestants.
Protestants have created a situation where some Catholics might even be afraid to read the bible because of the “what if it’s true” feeling. They place discontent in other’s hearts. This is a tragedy. The Bible supports the Catholic Church 100% and Catholics need to know that. We don’t pick and choose which parts of scripture to follow. We accept it all because we made it all. It comes from us.
I see so many protestants accusing Catholics of woshipping Mary because of the honor we give to her but I see a far greater parallel in the supremicy protestants give the bible. It really does appear that some of them are worshipping the Bible. If they are, that is wrong.
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sorter
Guest
From what religion you come from?
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Kay_Cee
Guest
Justasking4:
Why have you ignored my post (#701)?
I was hoping to see your answer.
Why have you ignored my post (#701)?
I was hoping to see your answer.
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Mea_Culpa
Guest
Matthew 16:18-19
And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
This is Jesus establishing His Church and giving Peter (the first Bishop of Rome) the keys of the kingdom of heaven - whatever the Church binds on earth shall be bound in heaven and whatever it looses on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Also, the powers of death shall not prevail against it. In other words, the Church’s charism of infallibility is not from man, it is from Jesus himself. He promised that the powers of death would not prevail against it.
John 16:12-15
"I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
[13] When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
[14] He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
[15] All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
John 14:25-26
[25] "These things I have spoken to you, while I am still with you.
[26] But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
Here Jesus promises to send the Holy Spirit to guide his Church into all truth, teach it all things, and bring to remembrance all that I have said to you. Again, he is guaranteeing that the Church will teach the truth in faith and morals, and be led into all truth - even the things he has not yet said to them - through the ongoing development of Sacred Tradition and the Magisterium of the Church. Through these things, all that Jesus has said will be brought to remembrance.
Holy Scripture is part of that promise. At the time Jesus was saying these things, there was no Bible. It was only through the Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit just as Jesus promised it would be, that the Bible came into being. Along with the Bible, the Holy Spirit guided the Church in developing Sacred Tradition as well. The Bible can only be properly understood when read in the context of, and under the guidance of, the Church and her Sacred Traditions.
Of course Peter (the first Bishop of Rome) and Paul were correct about false teachers coming in to the Church and drawing disciples away. Many of the Church councils have been in response to one heresy or another - the Arians, the Albegensians, Luther, etc.
Peter 2:1
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
Sola scriptura is one of these destructive heresies - it denies the Church founded by Jesus Christ, it denies the promises Jesus made that the gates of Hades will not prevail against that Church, it denies that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to lead the Church into all truth and bring all he said to remembrance - in other words, sola scriptura denies the Master who brought them, just as Peter predicted.
Sola scripturists are following a false doctrine, a heresy, and need to take heed of what Peter says they are doing - “bringing upon themselves swift destruction.”
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