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AgnosTheist
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You got it already. No they dont.
Protestants: Do you believe Mary is the spouse of God in any sense?
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AgnosTheist
Guest
But the title is literally more appropriate to Mary, since as the story goes- she was actually magically impregnated by God.
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AgnosTheist
Guest
because i’m merely referring to the logic involved. spouse=wife. holyspirit=god.
IMO, spouse implies worldy things too. Sometimes its better not to make things up. In this way are evangelicals more enlightened, not calling mary the mother & spouse of god frees them from the hassle of justifying ideas that ties God up into worldy & material limitations.
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byoby
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Who was Adam’s mother?
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MarcoPolo
Guest
No, I got 1 reply. Please take your inquiry about Catholic teaching on the matter to another thread.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
You seem to favor Protestants more than you do Catholics. I’ve been calling Mary, the Mother of God many times. I also call her Blessed Virgin Mary. Does she destract me from Jesus? Nope.
I wouldn’t dwell so much about giving her the title Wife of God. That’s never been expressed in the writings of the Church doctors.
Many times, I have heard Spouse of Mary, Daughter of God, and Mother of God for Mary.
Of these three. Only one is dogmatic. Mother of God, or Theotokos was defined in the Council of Ephesus is 431 AD to combat the heresy of Nestorianism, which denied Mary the title Mary, Mother of God.
The Council is recognized by the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.
The Council enforces the belief that in detail, what the Mother of God entails. This title professes, that Mary is Mother of God, the Son (Second Person of the Trinity). We believe this to be so because Jesus is God and also Man. He is the Word made flesh.
Mother of God doesn’t imply that Mary is Mother of God, the Father or the Holy Spirit.
Mary gave birth to a person. Jesus Christ, who is Truly God, and Truly Man. Two natures divine nature, and human nature.
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Mannyfit75
Guest
She wasn’t magically impregnated by God. Magic is condemned by God. Magic invokes calling dark magic to summon something out of it. They often use spell.
Mary became pregnant by the Power of the Holy Spirit. This is not magic.
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AgnosTheist
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Overall I find some protestant sects the most favorable among christians. If you sum up the historical deeds, current events, social structure, ethics and beliefs. Next what I nearly favor as much is the Orthodox Church. And then the third would be Roman Catholicism.
not for you, but for many pagans & infidels out there, the terms ‘Mother of God’ and ‘Spouse of God’ would be quite an obstacle.
Though Jesus is both human & divine, the term ‘Jesus’ strongly refers to his human side, and the term God strongly refers to the divine side. I definitely understand the RC point of view, and yet it still doesnt feel right. Many catholics left rome partly because of that term.
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byoby
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Jesus is God, God is eternal. How can God have a mother unless she existed before an eternal God? She would have to be even more God than God himself if that were even possible. Jesus was also fully man, Mary gave birth to Jesus The Man, not God. I beleive that Mary is the Bride of Christ in the same way that all of us are who beleive what he said he is and follow his commands. The Church or “Called out ones” are the Bride of Christ.
This is the way that I understand the matter, I could be wrong as I do not pretend to know Heavenly Matters and am very skeptical of those who do. I beleive Paul when addressing divisions in the early church told them to not go beyond what was written (1st or 2nd Coll). Ultimately I do not think it is an essential doctrine that should cause division as it was not discussed in the writings of the earliest church’s traditions. It seems to me that these writings all pointed to God the Father through Christ. I also do not think it is wrong to speculate on such matters, the problem as I see it is when we turn speculation into doctrine.
Just my opinion
This is the way that I understand the matter, I could be wrong as I do not pretend to know Heavenly Matters and am very skeptical of those who do. I beleive Paul when addressing divisions in the early church told them to not go beyond what was written (1st or 2nd Coll). Ultimately I do not think it is an essential doctrine that should cause division as it was not discussed in the writings of the earliest church’s traditions. It seems to me that these writings all pointed to God the Father through Christ. I also do not think it is wrong to speculate on such matters, the problem as I see it is when we turn speculation into doctrine.
Just my opinion
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Mary is the daughter of God the Father; therefore she is the daughter of God. Mary is the wife of the Holy Spirit; therefore she is the wife of God. And of course, Mary is the mother of Jesus therefore Mary is the mother of God.
If Mary were not the wife of the Holy Spirit, then Jesus would be illegitmate.
If Mary were not the wife of the Holy Spirit, then Jesus would be illegitmate.
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bengal_fan
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i just don’t follow this reasoning when it comes to God. He is above all (the reason He can cause one of His creation to be impregnated without ever having sex). if we are to use the same reasoning for God, then we could also say that if Mary is the “wife of God” she is a bigamist (for she took vows with Joseph to be his wife). i don’t think she is a bigamist, therefore, Mary doesn’t have to be the wife of God for Jesus to be “legitimate”.
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jmcrae
Guest
Your way actually makes good sense to me. Why not call her “wife of God”?
When little kids ask, “Who is God’s wife?” why shouldn’t it be perfectly natural to respond, “Mother Mary is God’s wife.”
After all, we are not like the Muslims, who believe that God is a bachelor dictator. No, we call God Father - and where there is a Father, there also has to be a Mother, in order for the family to be complete - because our Christian spiritual family is not a broken family.
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jmcrae
Guest
This statement shows a misunderstanding of what motherhood is.
Mothers don’t create their children. They only bear them until their bodies are strong enough to survive outside the womb.
God creates all children. Jesus, of course, is uncreated, since He is a person of the Trinity - God the Second Person.
Mary is God the Second Person’s mother because she bore Him in her womb. That has nothing to do with the fact that He is God, and therefore uncreated.
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AgnosTheist
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wow those are new concepts for me. thats the problem with associating the word ‘God’ in Mary’s titles. It ties God up to material & worldy limitations.
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byoby
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Thank you for clearing up my point. I agree completely.
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Mannyfit75
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Many Christians who have a difficulty with the title Mother of God, need to understand that the title means, Mary is the Mother of God, Second Person of the Trinity, Jesus Christ, who became flesh from Mary’s own flesh.
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Goth_Catholic
Guest
That was my reasoning when I was a child. Then I began to understand that God is one being in three divine persons, the Father created Mary, the Son was born of Mary, and Spirt overshadowed Mary. She is not the wife of God the Father, in the same sence that she is not the mother of God the Spirt. Yet she is still the wife of God in the same sence that she is mother and daughter to God. She cannot be two things to the same divine person, yet she is all of them to one being.Your way actually makes good sense to me. Why not call her “wife of God”?
When little kids ask, “Who is God’s wife?” why shouldn’t it be perfectly natural to respond, “Mother Mary is God’s wife.”
After all, we are not like the Muslims, who believe that God is a bachelor dictator. No, we call God Father - and where there is a Father, there also has to be a Mother, in order for the family to be complete - because our Christian spiritual family is not a broken family.
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BrewMax
Guest
Absolutely not. God is divine, Mary is not. Mary was chosen for a special purpose which she served in the most excellent way. So was Noah and Enoch chosen for special purposes. Mary was chosen for the Savior to be made incarnate from. Is this a big deal? Sure it is. Does it lend any leverage to Mary being in some way a spouse to God? Certainly not…
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MarcoPolo
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Hey Brew…I was wondering do you see where the idea would come from? Because Jesus was born of Mary by the Spirit. Mary is His Mother. God is His Father. Is this not a familial relationship of sorts? I won’t respond again, just curious.
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GOP
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No.
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