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Mannyfit75
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The Catholic Church does not profess that Mary is the wife of God.
Protestants: Do you believe Mary is the spouse of God in any sense?
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Mannyfit75
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The Catholic Church does have teaches this though. The Church is the Spouse of the Lamb of God.
LUMEN GENTIUM: Chapter 1 on the Mysteries of the Church states.
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
LUMEN GENTIUM: Chapter 1 on the Mysteries of the Church states.
- Christ is the Light of nations. Because this is so, this Sacred Synod gathered together in the Holy Spirit eagerly desires, by proclaiming the Gospel to every creature,(1) to bring the light of Christ to all men, a light brightly visible on the countenance of the Church. Since the Church is in Christ like a sacrament or as a sign and instrument both of a very closely knit union with God and of the unity of the whole human race, it desires now to unfold more fully to the faithful of the Church and to the whole world its own inner nature and universal mission. This it intends to do following faithfully the teaching of previous councils. The present-day conditions of the world add greater urgency to this work of the Church so that all men, joined more closely today by various social, technical and cultural ties, might also attain fuller unity in Christ.
- The eternal Father, by a free and hidden plan of His own wisdom and goodness, created the whole world. His plan was to raise men to a participation of the divine life. Fallen in Adam, God the Father did not leave men to themselves, but ceaselessly offered helps to salvation, in view of Christ, the Redeemer “who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature”.(2) All the elect, before time began, the Father “foreknew and pre- destined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that he should be the firstborn among many brethren”.(3) He planned to assemble in the holy Church all those who would believe in Christ. Already from the beginning of the world the foreshadowing of the Church took place. It was prepared in a remarkable way throughout the history of the people of Israel and by means of the Old Covenant.(1*) In the present era of time the Church was constituted and, by the outpouring of the Spirit, was made manifest. At the end of time it will gloriously achieve completion, when, as is read in the Fathers, all the just, from Adam and “from Abel, the just one, to the last of the elect,”(2*) will be gathered together with the Father in the universal Church.
- The Son, therefore, came, sent by the Father. It was in Him, before the foundation of the world, that the Father chose us and predestined us to become adopted sons, for in Him it pleased the Father to re-establish all things.(4) To carry out the will of the Father, Christ inaugurated the Kingdom of heaven on earth and revealed to us the mystery of that kingdom. By His obedience He brought about redemption. The Church, or, in other words, the kingdom of Christ now present in mystery, grows visibly through the power of God in the world. This inauguration and this growth are both symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of a crucified Jesus,(5) and are foretold in the words of the Lord referring to His death on the Cross: “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself”.(6) As often as the sacrifice of the cross in which Christ our Passover was sacrificed, is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried on, and, in the sacrament of the eucharistic bread, the unity of all believers who form one body in Christ (8) is both expressed and brought about. All men are called to this union with Christ, who is the light of the world, from whom we go forth, through whom we live, and toward whom our whole life strains.
- When the work which the Father gave the Son to do on earth (9) was accomplished, the Holy Spirit was sent on the day of Pentecost in order that He might continually sanctify the Church, and thus, all those who believe would have access through Christ in one Spirit to the Father.(10) He is the Spirit of Life, a fountain of water springing up to life eternal.(11) To men, dead in sin, the Father gives life through Him, until, in Christ, He brings to life their mortal bodies.(12) The Spirit dwells in the Church and in the hearts of the faithful, as in a temple.(13) In them He prays on their behalf and bears witness to the fact that they are adopted sons.(14) The Church, which the Spirit guides in way of all truth(15) and which He unified in communion and in works of ministry, He both equips and directs with hierarchical and charismatic gifts and adorns with His fruits.(16) By the power of the Gospel He makes the Church keep the freshness of youth. Uninterruptedly He renews it and leads it to perfect union with its Spouse. (3*) The **Spirit and the Bride **both say to Jesus, the Lord, “Come!”(17)
vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html
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Mannyfit75
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Don’t you mean, Mary is the Mother of God of the Second Person of the Trinity. I think you left out mother in your sentence…
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byoby
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Again, I agree completely with your point and believe it confirms mine. You have said it better than me. We are not in disagreement here. Can I assume that you agree with the remainder of my opinion since you did not address it?
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MH84
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Don’t you mean, Mary is the Mother of God of the Second Person of the Trinity. I think you left out mother in your sentence…
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JFonseka
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Spouse of the holy spirit, but this is not in the sense that many understand marriage as in the legal way.
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JFonseka
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Yes, there is already a term for that and it’s called THE SPOUSE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. For Jesus was conceived by ‘the power of the holy spirit’Your way actually makes good sense to me. Why not call her “wife of God”?
When little kids ask, “Who is God’s wife?” why shouldn’t it be perfectly natural to respond, “Mother Mary is God’s wife.”
After all, we are not like the Muslims, who believe that God is a bachelor dictator. No, we call God Father - and where there is a Father, there also has to be a Mother, in order for the family to be complete - because our Christian spiritual family is not a broken family.
Not, “the wife of God”
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LSK
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Because the Blessed Mother was legally the wife of Joseph - in the worldly sense he was ‘her most chaste spouse’. In order to avoid confusion, and to emphasize the fact that she is the legal wife of a man while fully the spouse of the Holy Spirit (God), Catholics do not use the phrase ‘wife of the Holy Spirit’.
It is not a problem for us to make these kind of distinctions…one must understand that traditional Catholic philosophy does not automatically assume there is an ‘either…or’ answer to a theological question; rather, because of our acceptance of the supernatural as valid reality, we know that often times an answer can be ‘both…and’.
Nonbelievers often characterize this acceptance of things unseen or not fully understood as doubletalk. That’s fine. One of the marvelous promises of being a Catholic is that we will be treated in the world by nonbelievers in the same way as God was treated - with scorn and derision. What a glorious fate! To be treated as Christ was treated!
It is not a problem for us to make these kind of distinctions…one must understand that traditional Catholic philosophy does not automatically assume there is an ‘either…or’ answer to a theological question; rather, because of our acceptance of the supernatural as valid reality, we know that often times an answer can be ‘both…and’.
Nonbelievers often characterize this acceptance of things unseen or not fully understood as doubletalk. That’s fine. One of the marvelous promises of being a Catholic is that we will be treated in the world by nonbelievers in the same way as God was treated - with scorn and derision. What a glorious fate! To be treated as Christ was treated!
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swariffin
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First of all, Why there is a term of “Mother” and “Spouse”. Who invented this terms? and for what use? “Spouse” is the term applied to human being. I do not believe that I can call a pigeon of mine as the spouse of its pair. And “mother” is a female human who ever give birth is called as. A female human can only give birth by a sexual relationship with a male human. So, the term “spouse” and “mother” is related by some sort of sexual relationship between human female and human male, and for the purpose of describing human male and female interrelationship only.
Second, In term of Mary, did she has sexual relationship with God? She did not. God is unseen. Mary cannot have a sexual relationship with unseen being, can she? Human term of it is “Masturbating” and yet masturbating will not yield any child.
By human standard and logic, it is impossible to deduce that Mary has sexual relationship with God. So, the term “Mother of God” by human standard is illogical. The only reason the word “mother” is used, because Mary physically gave birth to Jesus (1). Why the word “God”, because the christians call Jesus is God (2). The term 'Mother of God" is only a term which come from those 2 aforementioned facts combined together regardless of anything. The combination of the term “Mother” and “God” based of those facts which give the term “Mother of God” (please ignore the preposition “of”) is humanly discription purpose only, as perceived by human, as close as possible to human. So, it is not necessarily means that God nor the holy spririt has sexual relationship with Mary to yield Jesus in the real term.
Second, In term of Mary, did she has sexual relationship with God? She did not. God is unseen. Mary cannot have a sexual relationship with unseen being, can she? Human term of it is “Masturbating” and yet masturbating will not yield any child.
By human standard and logic, it is impossible to deduce that Mary has sexual relationship with God. So, the term “Mother of God” by human standard is illogical. The only reason the word “mother” is used, because Mary physically gave birth to Jesus (1). Why the word “God”, because the christians call Jesus is God (2). The term 'Mother of God" is only a term which come from those 2 aforementioned facts combined together regardless of anything. The combination of the term “Mother” and “God” based of those facts which give the term “Mother of God” (please ignore the preposition “of”) is humanly discription purpose only, as perceived by human, as close as possible to human. So, it is not necessarily means that God nor the holy spririt has sexual relationship with Mary to yield Jesus in the real term.
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BrewMax
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It was God’s divine plan. I don’t see it as constituting a spousal arrangement.
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bengal_fan
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there was no sexual relationship between the Holy Spirit and Mary. God “caused” her to conceive. this does not imply any sort of relationship other than creator and created. Mary is the “spouse” of God in the same way we are all (yes, men included) the spouse of God and the bride of Christ. she was used for a higher purpose than any of us will be most likely, but she is not God’s wife in any different way than i am. no, God is not a “bachelor” God (as some one on here put it). That doesn’t mean there needs to be a “mother” character or we have a broken family. God is the perfect family in and of Himself with Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. to imply He needs a wife is to imply He is not complete.
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MarcoPolo
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I can appreciate if you don’t prefer the terminology of Mary being “spouse” of the Holy Spirit…but when you give the reason that it’s because she didn’t have sex with God, the rationale does not stand. Scripture uses “Bride” when applied to the Church.
*Revelation 21:9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.*I discourage anyone from saying that because the Church did not have sex with God, she cannot bear the title “Bride.”
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bengal_fan
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i was responding to an earlier post that i did not quote. read my whole post and you’ll see that i agree that she is the “spouse” of God in the same way that we all are (she was called to a higher purpose than all of us in bearing Jesus). yes, the church as a whole is the bride of Christ as well, again read all the post. she is not God’s wife however (i use the term wife to mean the way we understand husband and wife relationships).
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MarcoPolo
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Ah, ok. Well, that is a very Catholic understanding too!
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bengal_fan
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it’s a pretty Christian understanding. Protestants believe that every human is the bride of Christ as well as the church universal is the bride of Christ.
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MarcoPolo
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Very good. And we also believe Mary has that special “spousal” relationship as described above.
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AgnosTheist
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did the bible ever refer to an individual as the bride of Christ? err like is Peter the bride of Jesus?
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bengal_fan
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i don’t think directly, but i think there are lots of things that point to this:did the bible ever refer to an individual as the bride of Christ? err like is Peter the bride of Jesus?
Song of Songs is full of this imagery. the imagery is extremely personal which could mean that personally and corporately we are the bride.
when Jesus uses the parables describing Himself as the bridegroom, He uses individuals in the stories with Him.
marriage is symbolic of Jesus and the church and it is also very focused on 2 people individually (symbolic also of Jesus and “me”).
i think of other places as well where the imagery points to a dual interpretation of the bride being the church and us as individuals but you are right in that it is never specifically said that “Hey, Peter, you’re my bride!!”
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swariffin
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I am sorry. Perhaps I failed to make myself clear. I was just trying to express my belief using human terminology. I do accept that Mary being “spouse” of the holy spirit as the church is the “spouse” of Jesus. The terminology “spouse” is used to describe an inseparable status of relationship. Spouses as described in the scriptures are no longer two separate entities, but become one single flesh. And, what is united by God, can not be separated by men. No other human terminology in any language can describe an inseparable status of two entities who/which become one single entity, except “spouse”. Off course, Peter as an individual, can not be called as spouse of Jesus, but, Peter as a member of church in one community can be called as spouse of Jesus. Further, there can not be spouses of Jesus.
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MattG
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“Because the Blessed Mother was legally the wife of Joseph - in the worldly sense he was 'her most chaste spouse”
Thank you, Leslie, for referring to the Divine Praises that defines Joseph as “her most chaste spouse,” and why? … She was the Holy Spirit’s by her choice; Lk 1:38¤ after hearing the Angel’s message spoken in Lk 1:35¤.
Later, the Divinity of the child she carried in her womb was recognized with wonderment by Elizabeth, Lk 1:42c-43¤.
Joseph recognized his place as step-father even though legally, if not biologically, he was Jesus’ Dad, Mt 1:18-25*.
¤ NAB
Thank you, Leslie, for referring to the Divine Praises that defines Joseph as “her most chaste spouse,” and why? … She was the Holy Spirit’s by her choice; Lk 1:38¤ after hearing the Angel’s message spoken in Lk 1:35¤.
Later, the Divinity of the child she carried in her womb was recognized with wonderment by Elizabeth, Lk 1:42c-43¤.
Joseph recognized his place as step-father even though legally, if not biologically, he was Jesus’ Dad, Mt 1:18-25*.
¤ NAB
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