Protestants: Do you believe that Christ is truly present in the communion elements of bread and wine?

[Protestant101]

The accusation that Adventists “hide their name” is ridiculous. From the beginnning, (almost 3 years) I have made it clear on a Catholic forum that I AM A SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST. Guess which Catholic forum I have done this on?

You are simply plagiarizing yourself, all the mindless material of cult sites on the internet. It is so easy to point out many “Christian” organizations/individuals who don’t come right out and say they are Catholic either. Every point you try to make above is so ridiculous, they are barely worth answering.

And all this smokescreen you present to your audience here just to try and get away from the fact that it is heretical to believe in this Catholic doctrine of The Eucharist. Catholics grossly undermine the Bible’s authority, and God’s true character by calling Jesus a piece of bread, and making the audacious claim that the Catholic Priest transforms this bread into our Savior.

 

[Robbinson]

. Catholics grossly undermine the Bible’s authority, and God’s true character by calling Jesus a piece of bread, and making the audacious claim that the Catholic Priest transforms this bread into our Savior.

I haven’t been in this thread for a while, but this statement is offensive. Even in your view (which does not believe in the “real presence”, you must know this will be offensive, as written to Catholics).

Jesus himself told us this is the literal blood and body. Paul reiterated it. The history of the earliest years of the Church show us that the earliest Christians (including direct disciples of the apostles believed it).

Do you believe in the incarnation? (I hope so) - isn’t that more difficult to believe than God’s power to transform bread and wine into his blood? How about the wedding at Chana - do you believe Jesus when he said he turned the water into wine?

This is a sincere question - when you look at John Chapter 6 with Jesus repeatedly saying you must eat my flesh and blood and in Luke when he says “this is my body” - what words (to you) would Jesus have had to use in order to convince you he was talking literally? Seriously, he used very plain language - really - what words (different or additional) would there need to be for you to read those scriptures as meaning what he said “this is my body” or “truly, truly, truly, unless you eat my flesh and my blood there is no life in you?”

Please think about that and, if you are willing, please suggest the missing words?

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Protestant101]

I haven’t been in this thread for a while, but this statement is offensive. Even in your view (which does not believe in the “real presence”, you must know this will be offensive, as written to Catholics).

Yes, I did realize that it would be “offensive” to some of the Catholics posting here. However; there are other considerations here to be noted.

1/ Some Protestants find it equally offensive to believe this doctrine the way Catholics teach it.

2/ The purpose of this forum is to “compare and contrast our beliefs.”

3/ I find that resorting to cries of “being offended,” or being victims of “hatred” or “malignment” are all too common here at CAF when someone genuinely, in their heart believes a Catholic doctrine to be wrong and heretical. After all; your own Popes, and other leaders make the proud claim of “heretic” stick to many outside the Catholic Church who do not hold to catholic tenets. And you think we do not find this equally “offensive?”

It is a fact that your own, current Pope has said we are not “true Churches.” The implications of this are far-reaching, but to make the charge here to me for making “offensive” comments about the Eucharist still leaves my questions about it unanswered, and only serves to remind me of what the current Pope, and Popes of the past have said about those who are not Catholics.

Partaking of the divine nature does not involve taking a piece of bread, calling it “Jesus;” and then eating Him. Your text from John 6 which many Catholics use as a “proof-text” here, is in essence a pre-text for what I have come to think of as one of the greatest lies in Christian doctrine I have ever seen.

I do apologize to those who are offended, but this is how I genuinely see it. I don’t say it out of hatred or any such thing. I am striving to address only the doctrine of the Eucharist, and not the people. And I know some of you will arise and try to denigrate my character, or my intelligence; but I will still hang in there for those who can study this out with me, and reason from the scriptures with me. That I will appreciate and look forward to, even if I don’t agree with what you say therein.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Yes, I did realize that it would be “offensive” to some of the Catholics posting here. However; there are other considerations here to be noted.

1/ Some Protestants find it equally offensive to believe this doctrine the way Catholics teach it.

2/ The purpose of this forum is to “compare and contrast our beliefs.”

3/ I find that resorting to cries of “being offended,” or being victims of “hatred” or “malignment” are all too common here at CAF when someone genuinely, in their heart believes a Catholic doctrine to be wrong and heretical. After all; your own Popes, and other leaders make the proud claim of “heretic” stick to many outside the Catholic Church who do not hold to catholic tenets. And you think we do not find this equally “offensive?”

It is a fact that your own, current Pope has said we are not “true Churches.” The implications of this are far-reaching, but to make the charge here to me for making “offensive” comments about the Eucharist still leaves my questions about it unanswered, and only serves to remind me of what the current Pope, and Popes of the past have said about those who are not Catholics.

Partaking of the divine nature does not involve taking a piece of bread, calling it “Jesus;” and then eating Him. Your text from John 6 which many Catholics use as a “proof-text” here, is in essence a pre-text for what I have come to think of as one of the greatest lies in Christian doctrine I have ever seen.

I do apologize to those who are offended, but this is how I genuinely see it. I don’t say it out of hatred or any such thing. I am striving to address only the doctrine of the Eucharist, and not the people. And I know some of you will arise and try to denigrate my character, or my intelligence; but I will still hang in there for those who can study this out with me, and reason from the scriptures with me. That I will appreciate and look forward to, even if I don’t agree with what you say therein.

**Protestant101,

I actually agree with what you said! Well, except for the slam against the RP of course.

People should be able to defend their beliefs and explain them. Of course some people’s beliefs looks around thread ] border on stupid! But who can argue with what the devil can place in the human mind when the real churches are removed, something has to replace the truth or justify the differences! I mean anyone knows that the 1700’s or 1900’s don’t equal 2,000 years ago when Jesus established His one Holy and Apostolic church on earth under the protection of the HS so even the gates of Hell would not preveil against it. And The Catholic church has stood the test of time and is still Jesus’ only valid church!

Are you really the old Protestant101? Did they increase or change any medications? You are actually starting to make sense. No offense meant But it isn’t like you always have! You were so Sola Scriptura as all SDAs are. Now you say: “… is in essence a pre-text for what I have come to think of as one of the greatest lies in Christian doctrine I have ever seen.” You now don’t take the bible literally anymore? Would you care to expound on that? It just might make for interesting debate. I will try not to denigrate your character or intelligence, I promise!

Oh, You had the purpose of this forum wrong. It is to “explain that when there is a conflict between what you believe and the Real church. It is because your faith has false teachings which have corrupted your mind. They aren’t Jesus’ real teachings by his only real church so they are false defacto by not being the same as the RCCs!”

78F here today! :coolinoff:

God Bless**

 

[Jimmy_B]

I am a Protestant who believes that Christ is truly present in the consecrated bread and wine every Sunday at my Anglican church. Do you believe this or do you feel that it is truly a symbolistic example of the Lord’s Supper?

Hello SIA,

What does the Anglican church have to say about it?

Peace

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I have so many objections to how you have responded AND insulted me that I could not possible address everything is this forum.

**Hi mabible,

I am busy so I will say this real quick! Please get over yourself. If you have something that you can actually object to state it so it can be addressed. No lies are ever told. Don’t try to play the Righteous Indignation card. No one personally insulted you. I am sure that no one dislikes you.
You are loved as a child of God. I don’t know you so I would have no reason to insult you. What would that gain? In fact, if like most of us, you probable are a very nice person. I am guessing that you have a deep love and believe in God and His son Jesus!

The problem appears to be that you weren’t taught history. All of your church teachings and beliefs are counterfeit. You try to blame me for that? You have to have trust here OK? I am a Catholic! I never started a counterfeit religion in my life.
However, for over 500 years Jesus’ real church has been attempting to fight offf Satan and his many false religions! They are like a cance on the body of Christ. Multiplying dividing and becoming more distorted and corrupt with each change!
With the help of Satan, Protestants make 21 new "groups a month.

Today, there are 33,000 counterfeit denominations,or non-denominational groups with 28,000 sub denominations, and various associations, conferences, communions, conventions, fellowships, groups, sect, cults, potlucks and unions. All these 61,000 groups having some variation of 1,375 doctrines and dogmas. They all partially agree with the CC and all partially disagree with the CC. The onlt thing they all agree with is that Jesus’ real church is wrong. Now who would be able to make 61,000 disagreeing groups be against Jesus and His real church? We think Satan. It seems logical.Of course, it could be just human pride, or greed but Satan is a better bet, wouldn’t you agree?

There is only one church that has taught only the truth for 2,000 years! It has refused to compromise the truth and remained faithful to Jesus teachings.

As I said “That all is History”. I do apologize if I was the first one to ever tell you about all this. It must have been a shock!

My advise? pray and allow the Blessed Mother and her Son to guide you towards the truth. Try to get a real bible to read there are over 100 different Protestant versions of the bible.
CLICK ON: Protestants finally realize their bible is counterfeit and admit it! **

I recently heard that the SDA just completed two additional vesions. You can check with Protestant101, he is a member of that cult so he would know better than me about that stuff.

God Bless

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Hello SIA,

What does the Anglican church have to say about it?

Peace

**
Hi Jimmy,

They disagree! You really have to love Christians. Recent statistics indicate only 56% of “Catholics” believe in the RP. The HS has to join with all real Catholics and put a stop to their secular lives seeping into our real churchs. Pretty soon Many Catholics and Anglicans will become exactly like Protestants. Condemned for following Satan rather than Jesus!

God Bless!**

 

[Realcatholicgk]

I would love to see you attempt to disprove the Real Presence scripturally.

I don’t think you can, although who knows, I could be wrong.

I think that the best you can do is to weaken the prooftexts of those who believe in it; in other words show that their prooftexts do not quite proove their case. Shooting holes in their prooftexts, however, is not the same as disproving it.

Remember that I am undecided on this.

**
Hi With,

I also await Protestant101’s reply to you. Don’t get offended if he doesn’t. Many times he doesn’t if a question is too difficult. He always ignores my questions pretending that I don’t, or he don’t understand. Actually we both do! His SDA background is firm, I still pick on him because SDAs are such easy targets with the foolishness they fervently believe! A cult, less that 200 years old telling the original church why we are interpreting our scriptures wrong!

Anyway, If it helps I can provide proof that Jesus is really present in the Host. I can’t play a devil’s advocate! Iam unable to find any fault in the scriptures and I have tried. It is because we don’t use the corrupted KJV, NKJV, NIKJV, RNIKJV, bibles. We like to read all the scriptures and with the correct words and verses still there. We also have other ancient writings and oral tradition to assist us in insuring the correct information is provided.

Click on: More Phony KJV BIbles Available**I am a born again Cradle Catholic from the orthordox Catholic tradition. I never lost faith but gained a personal relationship with Jesus on 14 November 1976 at a cursillo retreat.
I know that Methodist started out as a revival movement much like the charismatic movement. I am guessing, that you are now some kind of non-denominational mixture of various distorted beliefs. Non-denomination’s beliefs are the hardest to understand I believe that over 1,100 of the 1,375 doctrines and dogmas mixes come from the “non-denomination” Denominations of the protestant cancer!. I kid you not, one group here in Texas just broke away from their Baptist roots so they could sit on their horses during services. I wouldn’t be suprised if later they don’t baptize the darn things!

I am an ACTS Brother and have been on Cursillos since mid 70s. The ACTS movement came to birth from the Cursillo Movement through the inspiration of the HS. I wear the “fisherman’s braclet”!

 

[BMSODM]

And all this smokescreen you present to your audience here just to try and get away from the fact that it is heretical to believe in this Catholic doctrine of The Eucharist. Catholics grossly undermine the Bible’s authority, and God’s true character by calling Jesus a piece of bread, and making the audacious claim that the Catholic Priest transforms this bread into our Savior.

Here is a link that will give you some proof that the Eucharist** is **The Body and Blood. But then again all the proof in the world does no one any good if they don’t have faith…

catholicdoors.com/faq/qu116.htm

 

[GKC]

Hello SIA,

What does the Anglican church have to say about it?

Peace

Depends on which Anglican you ask.

GKC

Anglicanus Catholicus

 

[grampben]

**
Hi Jimmy,

They disagree! You really have to love Christians. Recent statistics indicate only 56% of “Catholics” believe in the RP. The HS has to join with all real Catholics and put a stop to their secular lives seeping into our real churchs. Pretty soon Many Catholics and Anglicans will become exactly like Protestants. Condemned for following Satan rather than Jesus!

God Bless!**

Whether they like the term or not, the Anglican Communion is a protestant church.

 

[GKC]

Whether they like the term or not, the Anglican Communion is a protestant church.

Depends on which Anglican you ask.

GKC

 

[grampben]

Depends on which Anglican you ask.

GKC

I knew you’d react

I mean it was initially,the church of England became protestant (although not reformed) when Henry split the state church from the Roman church.
It depends what a person means by protestantism I suppose.

 

[Protestant101]

Protestant101,

Are you really the old Protestant101? Did they increase or change any medications? You are actually starting to make sense.

Glad you have finally admitted that I am “making sense.”

Poiché il pan di Dio è quello che scende dal cielo, e dà vita al mondo. Essi quindi gli dissero:

 

[GKC]

I knew you’d react

I mean it was initially,the church of England became protestant (although not reformed) when Henry split the state church from the Roman church.
It depends what a person means by protestantism I suppose.

And it depends on what one means by Catholic. I mean I’m a Catholic, in the Anglican tradition. And not a protestant at all.

Of course, there are those who differ. One doesn’t have to look far.

GKC

 

[Patrick_Murebil]

…, but to make the charge here to me for making “offensive” comments about the Eucharist still leaves my questions about it unanswered,…

Hi Protestant101,

I have read your discussions on this topic with others in this forum in a few different threads. What questions do you have that remain unanswered after the many discussions and explanations which have been given to you?

I do believe however that even after all of the detailed explanations you’ve received, it is still difficult to understand the Eucharist. I believe that to be the case, because for many years I was in the same frame of mind that you are now.

If you sincerely desire to understand the Eucharist, I recommend the following book:

“The Hidden Manna: A Theology of the Eucharist” by James T. O’Connor

amazon.com/Hidden-Manna-Theology-Eucharist/dp/1586170767/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231878592&sr=1-1

This will most definitely answer all of your unanswered questions.

After that it is merely a matter of prayer and faith.

God bless all!!!

 

[grampben]

And it depends on what one means by Catholic. I mean I’m a Catholic, in the Anglican tradition. And not a protestant at all.

Of course, there are those who differ. One doesn’t have to look far.

GKC

I understand your view, but the Anglican Communion was started by an act of protestantism (I see protestantism as an act and a way of looking at theology, rather than a set of beliefs).

 

[GKC]

I understand your view, but the Anglican Communion was started by an act of protestantism (I see protestantism as an act and a way of looking at theology, rather than a set of beliefs).

I disagree. I emphasize apostolic succession, and belief.

And, of course, I speak fluent Apostlicae Curae.

GKC

 

[Protestant101]

Hi Protestant101,

I have read your discussions on this topic with others in this forum in a few different threads. What questions do you have that remain unanswered after the many discussions and explanations which have been given to you?

I do believe however that even after all of the detailed explanations you’ve received, it is still difficult to understand the Eucharist. I believe that to be the case, because for many years I was in the same frame of mind that you are now.

If you sincerely desire to understand the Eucharist, I recommend the following book:

“The Hidden Manna: A Theology of the Eucharist” by James T. O’Connor

amazon.com/Hidden-Manna-Theology-Eucharist/dp/1586170767/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231878592&sr=1-1

This will most definitely answer all of your unanswered questions.

After that it is merely a matter of prayer and faith.

God bless all!!!

I find it hard to believe that you would ask me to spend $25.00 Canadian (after shipping is added) on this book when members of this forum could give me the “theology” it contains. And besides, I have had the experience on this forum that when I quote a book like this, I am given lines like: “O, well. This is not ‘official’ Catholic doctrine.” Even though it may be “approved” by a Bishop, it is still not “official” and so to me that makes discussion of something like this book quite impossible on this forum.

I am undecided as of this writing as to what to ask and how, regarding this subject. But I am considering some possible responses and will be back asap. I need to check a few references first, and how fast that happens depends on available time!!

 

[Robbinson]

I find it hard to believe that you would ask me to spend $25.00 Canadian (after shipping is added) on this book when members of this forum could give me the “theology” it contains. And besides, I have had the experience on this forum that when I quote a book like this, I am given lines like: “O, well. This is not ‘official’ Catholic doctrine.” Even though it may be “approved” by a Bishop, it is still not “official” and so to me that makes discussion of something like this book quite impossible on this forum.

I am undecided as of this writing as to what to ask and how, regarding this subject. But I am considering some possible responses and will be back asap. I need to check a few references first, and how fast that happens depends on available time!!

As noted above - I think the theology and support for the doctrine of “real presence” in the Eucharist is well laid out in this thread.

You didn’t answer that earlier question - what words would you add to John 6 (if you were writing scripture) to make it even clearer than Jesus did when he said, it then repeated it after saying “Amen, Amen, Amen” and adding even more vibrant language when repeating it when questioned by the disciples, that he meant we are to eat his flesh and blood?

Blessings,

Brian