Protestants: Do you believe that Christ is truly present in the communion elements of bread and wine?

[Realcatholicgk]

Hi, Nancy,

Considering we are so close to the 1,000th post on this thread, I had been hoping you would have stayed focus for just this little while longer. Alas… too much to ask for, I guess!

Now, let’s see what we have here…

Nancy, if you look up at the very top of the post box you will see a title…yes, just a little higher… there you go! Now, the title is there to help keep you focused. So, let’s compare the title to what you wrote: Protestants: Do you believe that Christ is truly present - and - you wrote about Deacons… hmmmm… not much of a connection.

Maybe there is something to this boat thing … because, I think you have gone over-board! Back in Acts 6:1-7 we see the Twelve Apostles acting in consort to resolve a particular problem between Greek and non-Greek followers of Jesus who would later be called Christians and a little later from that called Catholic. There were no non-Catholics (in the common understanding of the term) until the 16th Century.

This is only a guess … but, it really does appear that you are just not interested in staying on topic, of engaging in constructive dialogue and of remaining focused. I’ve really done my best here - and really don’t have the time to play games with you, Nancy, From this point on, I am out of time.

God bless

**
Hi tqualey,

Tom, I just wanted to say that I enjoy your humor! I am sorry I wasn’t here when Non-Catholic attempted to put you on a guilt trip! This post was funny! And “Our Boss” would agree with us:

“Humor is in fact an essential element in the mirth of creation. We can see how, in many matters in our lives, God wants to prod us into taking things a bit more lightly.” —Pope Benedict XVI

(Oh nancy asked me to marry her. I told her I had a wife of 40 years but to send a picture and if she had a fishing boat we would see what could be done. benedictus2 (Who is a woman, with bad eyes, by the way! ) threatened to call my wife. I gave her a phony number!
I hate to see this thread closing It isn’t bad “most times”

Remember to pray for the conversion of the sinners!
“Eat me. I am the bread of the strong. But you will not transform me and make me part of you. Rather, I will transform you And make you part of ME”- St Augustine

God Bless **

 

[Cinette]

OKaaay!!!

So in fact Protestant101 should not be calling himself Protestant at all then. SDA is a cult . Gosh if I had known that I wouldn’t have expended any energy. I mean look at the result.

There have been some excellent postings on this thread, all scripture based. Some of them have been totally ignored. It is unbelievable!

the only thing to do is to pray for him

 

[joe370]

joe370;4725928:

Hey NC…

**

Again, you confuse the literal flesh and blood with the spiritual food that Jesus is…if Jesus wanted you to eat His flesh and drink His blood in a literal/carnal sense, then this would be throughout Scripture as part of the salvation message.

NC…

I ask respectively; did I say, Jesus wants us to eat His carnal flesh and blood? John says --Jesus is the Word in the gospel of John and the book of Revelations --only; should we just ignore that important detail simply because it isn’t cascaded through all of scripture? If GOD tells me to do something --I’m gonna do it; that’s just me though; to each to each, his/her own.

** But John 6:63 Jesus tell us the context of His message, which is consistent with His divine nature and the salvation message of Scripture. ****

Let us analyze the context leading up to John 6:63; perhaps that will shed a little light…

The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying,
“How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?”

No mention of the salvation message of Scripture. Just a message to give them His flesh to eat…

Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

No mention of the salvation message of Scripture. --Just a command to His followers:

…unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

How does one obtain said life?

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

Sorry, no mention of the salvation message of Scripture. --Just a command to eat His flesh and drink His blood, if we do this, He will raise us on the last day. I want to be raised on the last day! This is very important to me, and I’m sure it is important to you --to all brothers and sisters in Christ.

For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

Sorry, no mention of the salvation message of Scripture. --just another command:

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Jesus says His flesh is true food; His blood is true drink; He doesn’t say, the salvation message of Scripture is His true food? I’m starting to get the impression that the salvation message of Scripture, in this pericope, is:

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me.

Sorry, no mention of the salvation message of Scripture. --just another command to feed on Jesus; if you do that, you will have life because of Him. Jesus is the Word; the Word is the Church; the Church is His Body; He is the Head of His Body; He is the Savior of His Body. If we eat His Glorified flesh and drink His Glorified Blood, under the species of bread and wine, we can be a part of His Body --His Church, to which He is the Savior.

This is the bread that came down fromheaven.Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever."

Sorry, no mention of the salvation message of Scripture. --Just another command to eat the bread that came down from heaven; did the salvation message of Scripture come down from heaven or did Jesus come down from heaven? Scripture was taught by Jesus and His Apostles, upon His ascension, written by their disciples upon their demise, with a few exceptions, and given to us by His Church, which is the rightful guardian of said scripture, because Jesus is the Savior of His Church, and the H.S. is “teaching” and “guiding” His Church in perpetuity --according to your bible.
How many times does He have to say something, in order for us to do what He commanded; no sarcasm intended; I promise.

These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum. Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”

Are they having trouble accepting the salvation message of Scripture, or the preceding “sayings?”

Shouldn’t we all be convinced that the salvation message of Scripture, in this pericope, is:

Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day.

If not, could you be more specific when you say, it is the salvation message of Scripture, (that seems very general) --could you define that for me, like I and others have done for you. There are many salvation messages of Sacred Scripture.

Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you?

Is it the salvation message of Scripture that is inducing said “shock?” YUP!!! I am certain that the salvation message of Sacred Scripture, to eat His flesh and drink his blood, is causing the murmuring and shock!

And finally, the passage in question…

What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?

Continued…

 

[joe370]

Why did Jesus say that to grumblers, who were in shock?

It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Who’s flesh is of no avail?—not His --right?!!

The words…

What words??? Is it the salvation message of Scripture, or the tough “sayings” that are troubling the grumblers? Or, is the salvation message of Scripture, and the tough “saying” --one and the same?

…I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The salvation message of Scripture —the tough “sayings” —are the words to which Jesus is referring! The salvation message of Scripture —the tough “sayings” --are spirit and life!

**Not only that, but Jesus has two natures, the human and divine…the human nature, which is the literal flesh and blood is not omnipresent;
**

OK…

therefore He could not be at all those Mass’s all the time.

So, you think the Glorified Jesus –God, not the human Jesus that walked the earth 2000 years ago, has limitations? Really??? (I don’t think I would put any limitations on the human side of Jesus either) I don’t think you meant to say that --did you? Sorry for repeating myself, as Jesus did when He said:

…unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

**In John 6, the fact that He compares the carnal/manna in the wilderness to Himself the true spiritual food from Heaven… **

The same word is used for both the manna and Jesus’ flesh —EAT!!! If --“eat my flesh” is to be interpreted euphemistically, then the manna is also to be interpreted euphemistically, otherwise one betrays the context —contorts it to agree with one’s pre-conceived notions! Logic 101…

…should be another clue that He is not talking literal flesh and blood.

See logic…Never ever is sarcasm intended, for we are all brothers and sisters in Christ, and Jesus would abhor sarcasm!!! We are to unite, and sarcasm can only divide!!!

**This is why He says that those that ate the manna die, but those that eat the true spiritual food from heaven will never die.
**
Those who ate (ingest/digest) the manna, died, because it was food for the carnal corruptible body; Those that eat Jesus’ Glorified, as opposed to carnal flesh, and drink His Glorified blood, not carnal blood, will LIVE --BECAUSE THIS BREAD IS FOR THE ETERNAL SOUL–THE SPIRIT --WHICH IS ETERNAL LIFE.

**Romans 8 gives a good comparison to flesh versus spirit; I think James may do the same.
**

*There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. *Romans 8

The spirit world is our eternal Home, where we will once again be able to see our loved ones, and dwell with them forever. How awesome is that; thank you Jesus! The spirit is life, and we now know, indubitably, what words are in fact spirit and life!

*For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
*

Absolutely???

Are we now on the same page vis-a-vis the context of John 6:63—HOPEFULLY!!! —EVEN IF YOU STILL DISAGREE WITH ME?

**I would be concerned because all of you take the same stance the as the people that walked away because of unbelief **

Clearly you (no disrespect intended) --are taking the same stance as the grumblers; they didn’t believe, or should I say, didn’t want to believe because His words turned their theology on its head.

they did not believe Jesus and near the end of the message He clears away the crowd by “making it too hard to swallow” excuse the pun.

And now we know, hopefully, what was to hard to swallow?

There are many salvation messages in Holy Scripture, and in this context, it is:

"Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

Can we ignore certain salvation messages of Scripture, just because they aren’t palatable (no pun intended; humor is a great panacea) --to our sensibilities???

I look forward to your response ----hopefully something different!

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**
The LCMS believe in the Real Presence **

**
Hi Jean,

Great! Now if you would only believe in Jesus’ real church and receive the real Eucharist you could actually be saved!**

**We also celebrate the Eucharist every week. In both forms, the Body and Blood of Christ. **
**
And when you are done, do you throw the excess grape juice and bread away, like the abortionist throw away the bodies of the babies they kill, because you think that your Jesus left after the service?

I hate to tell you this. In fact before I do, please sit down. Ready? It doesn’t matter what your group believes. Jesus wasn’t there physically there at all. As He said when two or more are gathered in His name He is there spiritually. But when you left you still had a hunger that His real followers have filled with His Body! He abides in us and us in Him! There is no emptyness!

Only apolostic succession provides for the ability to actually transform the Bread and wine into Jesus’ actualy Body and Blood.

Didn’t your group start in about 1939 pretending to be Lutherans like Protestants pretend to be Christians? Of the 61,000 Protestant groups I understand that the LCMS is in “fellowship” with only 30 of them. Also because congregations voluntarily choose to belong to the Synod I think the cancer of protestantism is deeply inrooted and will continue to divide your Synod until no one will be able to identlfy any teachings.

Since apostolic times the christian church was united. Although there are historical, cultural, and sociological factors that have contributed to some small divisions, it basically remained united until 1,500 when departure from God’s truth revealed to the Catholic church in the Holy Scriptures must be regarded as the principal cause for the corruption and distorshion that followed. The apostles themselves and had to deal with some division within early Christian communities (see, for example, Acts 20:25-31). While the Scriptures are the inerrant source and norm of all doctrine when guided by the Holy Spirit through the Catholic Church, sinful human beings can and did err. Rather than fixing perceived problems, Satan forced many people to depart from jesus’ church and extablish false counterfeit religions. Hence, with the help of Satan these divisions has continued until presently there are over 61,000 false groups claiming to be christians, when in fact they do not follow Jesus’ church nor teachings! If they did they would be Catholics.

There can be only one Truth, and that is the one holy catholic and apolostic chrcuh established 2,000 years ago and still faithfully teaching real biblical doctrine. Click on: LCMS Bible **

God bless,

 

[joe370]

[SIGN]Hi Benedictous[/SIGN]So I spelt it wrong dont forget to tell me how dumb I am. In REV:1;4 there are 7 Spirits and if you read on there are 7 angels of the 7 churches there is not one Spirit God has 7 Spirits, and when I come back from shopping I’ll give you more information but you should READ the BOOK.If you deny the Word of God then you deny God and the son of God.It is your soul that you should be worried about I do love you and I pray Holy Father God will open your eyes and clean them with heavenly salve so you can see and undeerstand Later Nancy

Nancy…

How does the Holy Father open our eyes? What heavenly salve did He leave us with, so we can see and understand? Please don’t say the bible; Men gave us the bible; Jesus built something else and charged His elected ambassadors, and their elected ambassadors and so on and so on --in perpetuity, to:

Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, **teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. **And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age." Matthew 28

His Apostolic Church is His Divine teaching Instrument, thanks to the teaching/guidance of the One Holy Spirit, (fallible humans can’t topple the deposit of faith) --who teaches one thing vis-a-vis any one Doctrine (He never teaches conflicting truths, for He is the Spirit of Truth, and, logically, there can be only one truth) and He will be doing this until Jesus’ second coming --hence the words – And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age."

I always misspell --as a matter of fact, I just misspelled the word misspell, because I was typing so fast. LOL Thank God for the spell check feature.

*John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and **from the seven Spirits **which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood… * Rev. 1

The Holy Spirit sits on the Throne, not before the throne; the H.S. IS GOD; I know, it boggles my mind too!!! There is One God , made up of three Divine Entities; There is one Father –one Son and one Holy Spirit. However there are an infinite number of differing spirit forms; that I am sure of, as St. Paul attests.

Sidelight:

There can be only one truth, and Jesus is the way the truth…and Jesus’ Mystical Body is the Church, with Him as the Head and Savior of His Body, then, logically speaking, Jesus is His Church, and we all are essential body parts of His one Apostolic Church, as St.Paul so clearly illustrates! What happens when body parts such as the heart are removed? --The body dies --Right? Well, God can’t die and His body the church can’t fail according to Sacred Scripture, so what happens to Jesus’ Mystical Body when essential organs, such as His Divine Heart, are fractured --organs that Jesus loves so much that He gave Himself up as the only Sacrifice that would appease His Father? --It fractures! Division and dissension, all frowned upon in the bible, fracture Jesus’ Divine heart. The people who divide --who fracture Jesus’ Divine Heart are unwittingly doing the work of the anti-Christ -----sometimes wittingly, hence the anti-Christ. Every time another church pops up, Jesus sheds His Divine tears of Pain, as far as I am concerned. Every time someone reattaches him/herself to His His Mystical Body, Jesus sheds tears of JOY, as far as I am concerned.

With that said, His Church, logically speaking, really should be just one Church in the world today; wouldn’t you agree? God didn’t separate His Head from His Body; certain men did; those men will be held accountable for their actions on their last day, not the members of those man-made churches; they are just obeying the church to which they belong, doing what they believe, in their heart and mind, to be Gods work, which is why Christians should never stop searching their hearts and minds, until they are certain that they are in fact a part of Jesus’ One Mystical Body, the House of the Living God, the pillar and foundation of the only truth that should matter, in the grand scheme of things. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and we should all strive, peaceably, to unite, not divide our Christian family, as per the bible.

God bless Nancy…

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Realcatholicgk,

Thank you for your kind words.

I just finished reading your three somewhat lengthy posts - and, they were excellent. Don’t worry about the ‘guilt trip’ - one has to agree to buy the ticket … and, I’m not in a traveling mood for that destination…

You are correct about the importance of prayer for the three specific individuals you mentioned … and be sure to include me in your prayerful thoughts, too.

I really do not have a lot of experience in dealing with people who attack and then ignore the rebuttal - then attack again on the same topic. Unfortunately, there is not an internet ‘corner’ that these childish posters could be sent to in an effort to take the time to learn appropriate communicating skills. My guess is that the basis for this is ignorance (of the true message of Jesus Christ) founded on a hatred for anything Catholic.

But, this lack of experience is giving way to some ‘seasoned’ knowledge on how these folks operate. It has also given me a deeper appreciation for our Catholic Faith. You know, there really is a difference between our Barque of Peter that has been in these waters for close to 2,000 years and the other guys who appear to be bobbing up in down in patched inner tube tires. Satan must be very proud of his efforts to generate storms to divert and further sub-divide these hapless souls away from Christ’s True Church.

You know, we have been very blessed to have had John Paul II and now Benedict XVI. Their piety, compassion and intellectual abilities have truly been (and, are being) a shining example of Christ’s Love in the modern world. Things have not always been so good… but, you know what: the real proof in pudding is when scandalous and sinful Popes and Princes of the Church were in charge - and no doctrinal error resulted. It is one thing to be protected by the Holy Spirit from guys like John Paul II … and quite another from the likes of Alexander VI !

Again, thank you for providing such enjoyable posts to read and think about.

God bless

**
Hi tqualey,

Tom, I just wanted to say that I enjoy your humor! I am sorry I wasn’t here when Non-Catholic attempted to put you on a guilt trip! This post was funny! And “Our Boss” would agree with us:

“Humor is in fact an essential element in the mirth of creation. We can see how, in many matters in our lives, God wants to prod us into taking things a bit more lightly.” —Pope Benedict XVI **

 

[benedictus2]

Nancy…

How does the Holy Father open our eyes? What heavenly salve did He leave us with, so we can see and understand? Please don’t say the bible; Men gave us the bible; Jesus built something else and charged His elected ambassadors, and their elected ambassadors and so on and so on --in perpetuity, to:
V
V
V
V
Mystical Body, the House of the Living God, the pillar and foundation of the only truth that should matter, in the grand scheme of things. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and we should all strive, peaceably, to unite, not divide our Christian family, as per the bible.

God bless Nancy…

I am simply touched by your patience and your charity.

I replied to this post of Nancy’s with sarcasm and yet here you are giving her a most wonderful detailed reply.

I hope she realizes how beautiful and gracious your post is.:tiphat:

 

[Cinette]

Hi NonCatholic!

You and the other nonCatholics on this thread have been on my mind a lot lately.

I don’t think you would be on CAF if you didn’t care about your Faith and to find out what other people, both Catholic and nonCatholic think.

There is no doubt that we all learn from each other even thought we might not agree. We are still brothers and sisters in Christ.

The topic of this thread is extremely delicate because firstly, it is at the very core of our Catholic Faith - what we call the “source and summit” of our Faith.

Naturally when you, or anyone else make fun of the Body and Blood of Jesus (was it you who spoke of toe nail clippings and body parts?) it is extremely offensive. I know I get all fired up.

I have just come on the thread again after doing a few errands and I saw Joe370’s last posting. Not only is it carefully and well confected and very easy to follow and understand because it has been well presented but as one reads on one can see that Joe is doing this with love. He cares and he wants the reader (yourself or anyone else) to read it and ponder on his words because they are so important.:yup:

You may never accept and believe what we believe but, seeing that you are on this thread, the least you can do is read the posting because it is directed to you and was prepared especially for you.

 

[Protestant101]

Try Here

 

[Cinette]

Please explain Protestant101 - Why do you have a website where you raise questions about our Catholic beliefs?

Is this another platform where you attack the Church (I didn’t bother to read further) I saw the title and immediately exited.

Are you joining the ranks of those who make a career out of attacking the Catholic Church? Jesus warned us that we would be under attack but he said that he would be with us always and that the gates of hell would not prevail. You have identified which side you are on.

I am sure you are proud of yourself.

What is there to say?

 

[Protestant101]

Please explain Protestant101 - Why do you have a website where you raise questions about our Catholic beliefs?

What is there to say?

Probably for the same reason you are on this Catholic site, which attacks my faith, and beliefs. Maybe I should “exit quickly” as you did?

The only thing left to say I guess is that yes, it is true. You don’t have anything to say from the Bible which would disprove the true Protestant position on many subjects.

 

[Cinette]

Probably for the same reason you are on this Catholic site, which attacks my faith, and beliefs. Maybe I should “exit quickly” as you did?

The only thing left to say I guess is that yes, it is true. You don’t have anything to say from the Bible which would disprove the true Protestant position on many subjects.

First of all I doubt very much if Protestants would like you to be identified with them.

Secondly, in these forums we debate different issues. When you are disrespectful and attack our Faith you can be sure we will defend it. You have said some very ugly things and spread lies. So naturally don’t be surprised if we don’t like it.

Do you know of a Catholic who has a website for the specific objective of attacking the SDA? I very much doubt it.

As I have already said you have identified yourself for what you are and this is your choice. Live with it.

 

[joe370]

p101 —I am still waiting for your response… You said, This is laughable. I need not respond. Why is it laughable? What is laughable? Why so angry? I don’t get it? I am always connected, even if I am at work…

I reiterate…

P101 you said…

[Conversely, we have “Popeolatry” rife within catholicism, who count him as superior in authority to the Bible…

Just for the record catholics love the bible; we read it everyday; it nourishes us --strengthens us, metaphorically --just as the Eucharist does, literally. Take the C.C. OUT OF HISTORY AND YOU CAN KISS YOUR BIBLE --BYE BYE–THAT MY FRIEND IN CHRIST IS A FACT.

So, you are an advocate of sola scriptura via private interpretation --now we are getting somewhere. However I will wait for your confirmation.

…which by the way you cannot separate from Jesus.

Why would we; The bible Is comprised of Jesus’ teachings; the C.C. CANONIZED IT; we cherish our bibles.

Jesus and His Word are one and the same parcel - a complete whole.

Au contraire! The bible tells me and you, that His Church is His Body with Him as the Head and Savior of His Body; the Word is Christ and Christ is the Church, according to your bible?

The only thing you have to really “prove” your point about John 6 is the Pope’s say so, and under the circunstances you are forced to claim “church authority” to support your claims about Jesus being a piece of bread when the priest so decides at Mass. Protestants claim Bible authority.
[/quote]

Excellent opportunity to delve into the matter of authority --again…

Originally Posted by Protestant101 View Post
The Bible is God’s voice speaking to us, just as surely as though we could hear it with our ears.

2 Peter 1:20 says:

Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation,
for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.

If you can’t interpret Holy Scripture and I can’t interpret Holy Scripture, who can, authoritatively, interpret Holy Scripture?

If Holy Scripture is God’s voice speaking to us, just as surely as though we could hear it with our ears, then why are there so many people hearing something different vis-a-vis any one doctrine? Why aren’t you and I on the same page, vis-a-vis the Eucharist?

You belong to one church, I belong to another church, my sister and father, both belong to different churches; I could go on and on; My point is, what gives any of these churches (US) --the right to interpret Holy Scripture?

You and I, as brothers in Christ, are told by Paul to take unresolvable issues, e.g. the Eucharist, or any unresolvable issue, for that matter --to the Church --to adjudicate differences/controversies. I guess, the first thing you and I have to do, is figure out where that church is located; is it my sisters church; is it your church; is it my church? Where in the heck is Jesus’ church --the one He built circa 33 AD? Once we do that, we can finally put an end to this difference of opinion --perhaps…

Still looking forward to your response…

 

[joe370]

**This is laughable. I need not respond. **
You said, Try Here

Cool!!! --I will…

Perhaps, if I check out your suppositions, you will engage me in a friendly debate? I view you as a brother in Christ; do you view me that way?

I wish I could talk to you face to face —that way you couldn’t just pop in --say something like, “This is laughable. I need not respond” --and hit the road.

I have to say it; That seems a bit cowardice if you ask me! Sorry…

 

[benedictus2]

The only thing left to say I guess is that yes, it is true. You don’t have anything to say from the Bible which would disprove the true Protestant position on many subjects.

But as we have shown, it is you who are afraid of the Bible. Why else would you evade verses that don’t gel with your interpretation.

We have asked you questions which you have not answered. All that could possibly mean is that you don’t have any answer.

We have quoted the Bible to you and all you could manage are one liners like " you believe in the pope rather than the Bible" which you cannot even substantiate and without even refuting our argument.

I wonder if one needs to abandon rationality to become a protestant especially of the fundamentalist kind (I would not want to generalize here because some Lutherans and Anglicans in this forum do have their thinking caps on).

 

[benedictus2]

To Nancy,

This thread is about to wind up and I thought I would address this post to you.

You mentioned that you were baptized Catholic. I don’t know how long ago you left the faith but I am sure that your reason for leaving would have been due to being terribly under Catechized so you did not really know what the Church believes. You have probably been lied to about the Catholic Church and at this stage you still don’t know that they are lies.

When I was in high school, a friend of mine decided to become “born again” and she had so many things to say against the Catholic Church. She said she just did not find in the Church what she was looking for.

I said to her that it’s like we were both put in a room and asked to look for a precious Jewel. She left because she thought the Precious Jewel was not there so went looking for it somewhere else. I stayed because I found the Precious Jewel right there in that room. And the longer I stayed the more I realized how beautiful it indeed is. You see, the Jewel was there all the time, she just did not have the eyes to see.

When I hear Catholics leave the church, I feel sad because I know they are leaving that which is Christ’s family here on earth.

You see when Christ ascended to the Father, He knew that we would need more than just a book to guide us. That is why in all His time on earth, He did not write nor did He ask His apostles to write about Him. Think about that.

What did He do? He built a Church. The Catholic Church. And if you do a bit more research, you will know that the Catholic Church is the same Church that Christ founded upon Peter 2000 years ago. And the Popes are Peter’s succesors.

And this book, the Bible that you love so much was written within the heart of the Church. The early Christian Church was Catholic. The Bible is a Catholic book.
As a matter of fact, your denomination will be unable to trace itself back to that moment in Caesaria Philipi when Christ said to Peter: You are rock, and upon this rock I will build my Church.

I find it rather interesting when people say that when they were Catholics they did not know anything about the Bible. If that was the case then it was their own fault.

If you still remember the Masses you went to, do you remember how many readings from the Bible there were? On Sundays 4, on ordinary days 3, at Easter Vigil 7. We get to hear great dollops from the Bible. But sadly, you probably did not pay attention at Mass.

I would suggest that since you are here at CAF to please read carefully what we have written. Do not skim over them.

If you keep going as you are now, barely reading what we have written, on the ready to go to a cross reference book so you can post something, then, you will not learn.

Do not rely on whatever book you are going for your references. Read the Bible. Ponder the passages from the Bible that we have painstakingly written in our posts. Turn it over in your mind. Digest it.

I believe God has brought you here so that you will learn more about that home that you left. So that you will know how beautiful it is and how truly the Holy Spirit continues to guide it. And how gently our Lord is calling you back Home.

So think about it.

Go through this thread and read. Slowly. Learn.

Here are some links which might help you.

Scott Hahn conversion Story
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0088.html

Peter Kreft - Hauled Aboard the Ark
http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics/hauled-aboard.htm

The History of the Catholic Church (diagram)
http://www.scborromeo.org/truth/figure1.pdf

Time line of the Catholic Church to 1 – 500 BC
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_catholic_church.htm

Timeline of how the Bible came to us
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_how_the_bible_where.htm

God bless you. May He grant you a listening heart and an open mind.

 

[benedictus2]

** benedictus2 (Who is a woman, with bad eyes, by the way! ) threatened to call my wife. I gave her a phony number! **

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What do you mean I have bad eyesight. I can assure you that I can see an elephant at 20 paces.!

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**

“Eat me. I am the bread of the strong. But you will not transform me and make me part of you. Rather, I will transform you And make you part of ME”- St Augustine

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Love this quote. But I just want to clarify this a bit. When St Augustine was struggling with the Real Presence, he heard the Lord say the above to him.

 

[joe370]

My fellow brothers and sister in Christ — when we are at our weakest, when life seems hopeless, when ALL seems lost —that is when the anti-Christ pounces— trust me on this one!!! Christ prays for unity; the anti-Christ, surreptitiously, infects… that is his only function! He knows, once Jesus returns, it is all over for him. His ONLY mission, is to divide and conquer, —as much as he can, before he is annihilated. He wants to drag as many souls with him, that is feasibly possible!

Listen to reason/logic — not pre-conceived notions—
learned. Challenge familial perspectives; don’t just settle because your family says, this is the way to God!!!

Jesus said:

Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Don’t just settle for familial tradition…

Before you cling to the teachings of a man-made church ----ministers, not appointed by Jesus, preaching from their soapboxes --listen to your GUT!!! Once you do that — you will find TRUTH; TRUST ME ON THIS ONE. I was a NON CATHOLIC FOR 20 YEARS; I STOPPED BEING A NON CATHOLIC THE MINUTE REASON AND LOGIC PULLED ME OUT OF MY ABYSS…

Forget about all churches, including the C.C. for the moment; employ logic and reasoning, as your beacon of light; if you do that, I guarantee you will find truth…

 

[benedictus2]

My fellow brothers and sister in Christ — when we are at our weakest, when life seems hopeless, when ALL seems lost —that is when the anti-Christ pounces— trust me on this one!!! Christ prays for unity; the anti-Christ, surreptitiously, infects… that is his only function! He knows, once Jesus returns, it is all over for him. His ONLY mission, is to divide and conquer, —as much as he can, before he is annihilated. He wants to drag as many souls with him, that is feasibly possible!

Listen to reason/logic — not pre-conceived notions—
learned. Challenge familial perspectives; don’t just settle because your family says, this is the way to God!!!

Jesus said:

Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Don’t just settle for familial tradition…

Before you cling to the teachings of a man-made church ----ministers, not appointed by Jesus, preaching from their soapboxes --listen to your GUT!!! Once you do that — you will find TRUTH; TRUST ME ON THIS ONE. I was a NON CATHOLIC FOR 20 YEARS; I STOPPED BEING A NON CATHOLIC THE MINUTE REASON AND LOGIC PULLED ME OUT OF MY ABYSS…

Forget about all churches, including the C.C. for the moment; employ logic and reasoning, as your beacon of light; if you do that, I guarantee you will find truth…

Amen!