Protestants: Doesn't it bother you that your religion is of man-made origin?

[Jonathan_Cid]

you lost me…

What do you mean by confusing obedienceto sciprutre with obedience to self??

I mean a fault that humans have is that when we don’t want to see something for what it is, we won’t. We’ll interpret it how we want, and claim that we are truly obedient to what it says, it’s just that we’re interpreting it our own way. Each and every single Protestant denomination makes the same claim - absolute obedience to Scripture. Yet they all disagree. Human pride and arrogance mislead us and blind us, and we know if a blind man leads another blind man they will both fall into a pit, and so on, and so forth.

Sometimes people are blind, and the Scriptures open little peep-holes here and there… We see a little more. Then we find that what we are seeing contradicts what all the Protestant leaders are saying, and they are running people off a cliff. We see, although we still don’t fully understand, that the Catholic Church is true, and we have to trust God, in faith, in moving towards this Church away from the cliff. Again, that’s how it happened for me.

I saw emphasis on poverty, while Protestant preachers were preaching emphasis on “success”, “prosperity”. I saw the Bible telling me faith without works was dead, while Protestant preachers were saying we just needed to believe, and then we could have “success”, “prosperity”. I saw them driving Mercedes Benz, wearing expensive suits, and contradicting each other.

I saw the Catholic Church emphasizing poverty. Success and prosperity were terrible if they lead you away from humility and obedience to God. And your success and prosperity and talents were not yours - they were for sharing. I saw Her teaching that faith without works was dead, and that we must live our faith, and live deep in our hearts, avoiding all that is superficial, because there was no God in the superficial. I saw Her concerned with Her fruits, because the good tree bears good fruit - spiritual fruit. I saw Her priests, and monks, and nuns, living in poverty - but spiritually rich, loving, kind and understanding. They were images of Christ.

Seeing this comparison, I think you can tell which one is of man, and which of God.

 

[jmcrae]

you lost me…

What do you mean by confusing obedienceto sciprutre with obedience to self??

Perhaps because if you don’t have anyone to instruct you, you can read a couple of small parts of the Bible and think that it is telling you to do something that in reality has nothing to do with what is written.

The classic example given of this is, “Judas hanged himself.” “Go and do likewise.”

Most people would realize there was something wrong if they came up with that, but there are more subtle things that trap people nearly every day - for example, they take words that were given to the Prophets or to the Apostles, and think that they are being given to themselves, today. One runs into plenty of Protestants who think that Matthew 18:18 applies to themselves, personally, for example.

 

[KenEOTE]

The Problem I see is that the world is looking at the Church. They do not differentiate between Catholic and Protestant. You talk to an Atheist or Agnostic or Muslim or Buddhist and they Lump Catholics and Protestants together. It is the Catholics and Protestants that look for every little thing they disagree with and harp on those things and not at the similarities.

One thing I find strange is that, Catholics will get mad at Protestants for the once saved always saved issue, where Protestants will get mad at the concept of a Catholic working out his salvation. If you look at both concepts they are similar a Protestant does not believe that a person is saved to go on sinning, but he is continually cleansed and working towards a goal which is perfection that can only be done through the Holy Spirit. The Catholics believe basically the same thing,

Unfortuantly Both Catholics and Protestants are humans so you are going to continue to have arguments and so forth because we all have pride and selfishness and unforgiveness.

On this forum the Catholics go about bashing the Protestants on another forum it is reversed. Where is the charity and the hope that Christ offers if both sides are going to continue to attack each other. How can we reach others for Christ if we can’t even reach across to another who believes in Christ?

I am sure now I am going to be called a heretic so go ahead. I have been called a heretic on pretty much every forum I have posted on, simply because I want to see Protestants and Catholics working together to reach this world for Christ.

 

[distracted]

I mean a fault that humans have is that when we don’t want to see something for what it is, we won’t. We’ll interpret it how we want, and claim that we are truly obedient to what it says, it’s just that we’re interpreting it our own way. Each and every single Protestant denomination makes the same claim - absolute obedience to Scripture. Yet they all disagree. Human pride and arrogance mislead us and blind us, and we know if a blind man leads another blind man they will both fall into a pit, and so on, and so forth.

.

thanks for explaining… Again, well said…

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

The Problem I see is that the world is looking at the Church. They do not differentiate between Catholic and Protestant. You talk to an Atheist or Agnostic or Muslim or Buddhist and they Lump Catholics and Protestants together. It is the Catholics and Protestants that look for every little thing they disagree with and harp on those things and not at the similarities.

One thing I find strange is that, Catholics will get mad at Protestants for the once saved always saved issue, where Protestants will get mad at the concept of a Catholic working out his salvation. If you look at both concepts they are similar a Protestant does not believe that a person is saved to go on sinning, but he is continually cleansed and working towards a goal which is perfection that can only be done through the Holy Spirit. The Catholics believe basically the same thing,

Unfortuantly Both Catholics and Protestants are humans so you are going to continue to have arguments and so forth because we all have pride and selfishness and unforgiveness.

On this forum the Catholics go about bashing the Protestants on another forum it is reversed. Where is the charity and the hope that Christ offers if both sides are going to continue to attack each other. How can we reach others for Christ if we can’t even reach across to another who believes in Christ?

I am sure now I am going to be called a heretic so go ahead. I have been called a heretic on pretty much every forum I have posted on, simply because I want to see Protestants and Catholics working together to reach this world for Christ.

I agree with you Ken. I think what worries Catholics about Protestantism is two things:

Firstly, the visible break from the Catholic Church, begun by Christ, which I would think should be extremely disturbing to anyone who intends to be loyal to Christ.

Secondly, the results of many Protestant ideas (and there are a wide variety)… Puritanism, Calvinism, pre-destination, outright (capital “L”… the kind the Church identifies and criticizes) Liberalism (do whatever you want), Modernism, materialism, and on, and on, and on. Catholics point back to Christ’s words where a good tree produces good fruit. Where our ideas are coming from is extremely important. Catholic ideas come from the Apostles by authority given by Christ, i.e., from Christ. Protestant ideas come from men who despised the ideas of Christ, of the Apostles given authority by Christ.

 

[distracted]

Perhaps because if you don’t have anyone to instruct you, you can read a couple of small parts of the Bible and think that it is telling you to do something that in reality has nothing to do with what is written.

The classic example given of this is, “Judas hanged himself.” “Go and do likewise.”

Most people would realize there was something wrong if they came up with that, but there are more subtle things that trap people nearly every day - for example, they take words that were given to the Prophets or to the Apostles, and think that they are being given to themselves, today. One runs into plenty of Protestants who think that Matthew 18:18 applies to themselves, personally, for example.

thanks for further explaining… Yes, i have seen this kind of thing many times… but that thing about Judas… that made me laugh (though it isn’t too funny, is it??) and yet it illustrates very well how two different scirpt passages can be put together to … well… to get someone to believe just about anything… Scary…

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

thanks for further explaining… Yes, i have seen this kind of thing many times… but that thing about Judas… that made me laugh (though it isn’t too funny, is it??) and yet it illustrates very well how two different scirpt passages can be put together to … well… to get someone to believe just about anything… Scary…

Eight words: Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Although, I’m not sure where they found justification to force their children to marry grown men.

 

[distracted]

On this forum the Catholics go about bashing the Protestants on another forum it is reversed. Where is the charity and the hope that Christ offers if both sides are going to continue to attack each other.
:

i don’t know waht you are talking about. I don’t see any “bashing” of anyone going on here, to speak of… Unless you call being honest and up-front about waht one believes “bashing” ???

I have seen it happen over & over on these forums that when one poster or set of posters doesn’t like what is being said & can’t refute it… they start accusing the others of all kinds of un-Christian behavior… which of course, is not very Crhistian…

If you feel “bashed”… well, i am sorry ifthat is genuinely the case… But i don’t feel anyone is bashing anyone… Maybe you could show me a post that would prove your point??

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

I read a book given to me by my mother (who is trying to reconvert me to Protestantism) in which the protagonist approaches an Anglican priest to eject a ghost from her house - he makes the attempt, but it is ineffective, and in the end, she has to go to France to take an object that was owned by the ghost, to have it blessed by a Catholic priest - it is only after this is done that the ghost finally departs peacefully.

I thought, why, in a work of fiction that is obviously intended to promote the Anglican faith, would the protagonist have to finally approach a Catholic priest for anything? I thought on this for several hours, and then I finally concluded, “So that it would be believable.” Because the author had the most minor role possible for the Catholic priest - he gets only one line, he is made out to be an impatient jackass, and then he disappears completely from the story - but I think the author realized that a general audience of readers would expect a Catholic priest to be involved in at least some small way, in getting rid of the ghost.

Sometimes you just can’t help but spit out the Truth. I think it’s that “pull” of the Catholic Church.

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

i don’t know waht you are talking about. I don’t see any “bashing” of anyone going on here, to speak of… Unless you call being honest and up-front about waht one believes “bashing” ???

I have seen it happen over & over on these forums that when one poster or set of posters doesn’t like what is being said & can’t refute it… they start accusing the others of all kinds of un-Christian behavior… which of course, is not very Crhistian…

If you feel “bashed”… well, i am sorry ifthat is genuinely the case… But i don’t feel anyone is bashing anyone… Maybe you could show me a post that would prove your point??

In all honesty, there are a few people on these forums that are extremely offensive. But as I said - a few.

 

[distracted]

Eight words: Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

Although, I’m not sure where they found justification to force their children to marry grown men.

probably because back in biblical days, people had to marry young because they died young?? No… that can’t be it… cause, well… Methusalah… (By the way: Wasnt he Jewish like Jesus? ) But anyway… i can’t figure it out either…

Oh, i know where they get it…

God made man in his image… so they figure… since man (some men) like to have sex with lots of young girls and dont want to share them with other men… well, God must… approve of that?? Thats all i can come up with… :whacky:

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

God made man in his image… so they figure… since man (some men) like to have sex with lots of young girls and dont want to share them with other men… well, God must be like that too?? Thats all i can come up with…

Actually, from a literal perspective, that makes a lot of sense. Thank God Catholics don’t interpret the Bible that way.

“See, it’s right there… God made man in His image…”

 

[distracted]

In all honesty, there are a few people on these forums that are extremely offensive. But as I said - a few.

yes - on the forums… I totally agree… but i don’t feel anything has been said that is extremely offensive Here, at this Thread…

 

[distracted]

Actually, from a literal perspective, that makes a lot of sense. Thank God Catholics don’t interpret the Bible that way.

“See, it’s right there… God made man in His image…”

i changed what i wrote because i felt i was disrespecting God by putting it that way…

anyway, if this kind of thing isn’t ample proof that we need an authroitative, infallible Church to interpret the Bible for us… then, really… tell me… **what is??? **

 

[distracted]

Actually, from a literal perspective, that makes a lot of sense. Thank God Catholics don’t interpret the Bible that way.

“See, it’s right there… God made man in His image…”

actually it doesn’t make literal sense in another sense… because God doesn’t even need ONe wife, much less 10… and since we are supposed to be “perfect as oiur father in heaven is perfect”… well… then we should, like him, not feel the need to have a spouse… although there is nothing wrong with marriage… of course… The Lord is my shepherd, there is nothing i shall want."

we humans (Americans in particular?) don’t like to “want” for anything, do we??? :hypno:

 

[Jonathan_Cid]

i changed what i wrote because i felt i was disrespecting God by putting it that way…

anyway, if this kind of thing isn’t ample proof that we need an authroitative, infallible Church to interpret the Bible for us… then, really… tell me… **what is??? **

Actually, alot more, the greatest of which is Our Lord’s authority! But, I don’t see anyone responding anymore, so for now, I think we can leave it at this.

And he [Jesus] wondered because of their unbelief, and he went through the villages round about teaching. 7 And he called the twelve; and began to send them two and two, and gave them power over unclean spirits. 8 And he commanded them that they should take nothing for the way, but a staff only: no scrip, no bread, nor money in their purse, 9 But to be shod with sandals, and that they should not put on two coats. 10 And he said to them: Wheresoever you shall enter into an house, there abide till you depart from that place.

**11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you; going forth from thence, shake off the dust from your feet for a testimony to them. **12 And going forth they preached that men should do penance: 13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them. 14 And king Herod heard, (for his name was made manifest,) and he said: John the Baptist is risen again from the dead, and therefore mighty works show forth themselves in him. 15 And others said: It is Elias. But others said: It is a prophet, as one of the prophets.

16 Which Herod hearing, said: John whom I beheaded, he is risen again from the dead. 17 For Herod himself had sent and apprehended John, and bound him in prison for the sake of Herodias the wife of Philip his brother, because he had married her. 18 For John said to Herod: It is not lawful for thee to have thy brother’s wife. 19 Now Herodias laid snares for him: and was desirous to put him to death, and could not. 20 For Herod feared John, knowing him to be a just and holy man: and kept him, and when he heard him, did many things: and he heard him willingly.

 

[Hisalone]

The Problem I see is that the world is looking at the Church. They do not differentiate between Catholic and Protestant. You talk to an Atheist or Agnostic or Muslim or Buddhist and they Lump Catholics and Protestants together. It is the Catholics and Protestants that look for every little thing they disagree with and harp on those things and not at the similarities.

One thing I find strange is that, Catholics will get mad at Protestants for the once saved always saved issue, where Protestants will get mad at the concept of a Catholic working out his salvation. If you look at both concepts they are similar a Protestant does not believe that a person is saved to go on sinning, but he is continually cleansed and working towards a goal which is perfection that can only be done through the Holy Spirit. The Catholics believe basically the same thing,

Unfortuantly Both Catholics and Protestants are humans so you are going to continue to have arguments and so forth because we all have pride and selfishness and unforgiveness.

On this forum the Catholics go about bashing the Protestants on another forum it is reversed. Where is the charity and the hope that Christ offers if both sides are going to continue to attack each other. How can we reach others for Christ if we can’t even reach across to another who believes in Christ?

I am sure now I am going to be called a heretic so go ahead. I have been called a heretic on pretty much every forum I have posted on, simply because I want to see Protestants and Catholics working together to reach this world for Christ.

Well said

 

[Hisalone]

I agree with you Ken. I think what worries Catholics about Protestantism is two things:

Firstly, the visible break from the Catholic Church, begun by Christ, which I would think should be extremely disturbing to anyone who intends to be loyal to Christ.

Secondly, the results of many Protestant ideas (and there are a wide variety)… Puritanism, Calvinism, pre-destination, outright (capital “L”… the kind the Church identifies and criticizes) Liberalism (do whatever you want), Modernism, materialism, and on, and on, and on. Catholics point back to Christ’s words where a good tree produces good fruit. Where our ideas are coming from is extremely important. Catholic ideas come from the Apostles by authority given by Christ, i.e., from Christ. Protestant ideas come from men who despised the ideas of Christ, of the Apostles given authority by Christ.

Protestants would argue that the break occured after the Catholic Church departed from the teachings of Christ.
The US was fouded on Protestant princiaples are you saying that fruit is not good?
The concepts of democracy and one man one vote is that from Protestant thinkers or Catholic?

 

[Hisalone]

To address the OP.
Im a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ it is He whom I follow. Your unfounded claims dont concern me.

 

[Harpazo]

Shlomo lkhoulkhoun,

It bothered me immensely. Therefore, I had no logical choice but to embrace the Church Christ left us. To say that Luther, Henry VIII, Wesley or whomever had to come along and fix what Christ and the Apostles got wrong is the height of arrogance and very scary.

Granted, they don’t think with that mindset, and neither did I, but that is what they admit to by their continued separation from the Holy Catholic Church. I don’t say any of this with malice, but with the greatest love and respect for my separated brethren.

Alloho minokhoun,
Andrew