Protestants, Explain this Verse

[ppasa316]

That’s because in your Protestant bible, you had 7 books thrown out by your glorious Reformer Martin Luther, therefore my bible which is the original bible, never changed, never distorted, is the bible from Apostle as written 2,000 years ago. St. Paul NEVER says we are all going straight to heaven…your arrogance about thinking that is pitiful. St. Paul says “But only through fire will man be saved.” 1Cor. 3:11-15 this is a clear and obvious allusion to Purgatory, even for the more skeptical person.

**Phillipians 2:10-11:
“At the name of Jesus, every knee should bow, in Heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”

Revelation 5:3, 13:
And no one in Heaven or on earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it…And I heard every creature in Heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, “To him who sits upon the throne
and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever”

If God refuses to receive prayer, praise and worship from the unrepentant sinner (Ps. 66:18, Prov. 1:28-30, Isa. 1:15, 59:2, Jer. 6:20, Amos 5:21-24, Mic. 3:4, Mal. 1:10, John 9:31, Heb. 10:38), why would he permit the damned to undertake this practice?.**

Dude you really need to go back to studing God’s Word. To begin with we both have the same bible other than the 7 books that the catholic bible contains. Now if those 7 books were the inspired word of God why didn’t Jesus or the disciples ever quote from them like the others. Unlike the NT which claimed to be inspired 2 Tim 3:16, 2 Peter 1:21, 2 Peter 3:16. the Apocryphal books never make that claim. The also were not written by a true prophet or an apostle of God. What does it mean to you that not a single apocryphal book claims to be inspired by God? What does it mean to you that the NT writers quoted the OT but never quoted the Apocryphal books. I still leave you with Col 2:8 You still have a lot of learning to do. I do admire you for trying but read James 3:1:thumbsup:

 

[Peter_J]

I don’t have any idea what bible your are using but God’s Word does not mention purgatory. Heb 10:14 "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. What does forever mean to you. Rom 8:1 “Therefore there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.” How do you explain this verse regarding purgatory. The scriptures are clear that at the moment of death, believers go directly into the presence of God. Please read 2 cor 5:6-8 what does Paul say. If Phillipians 1:23 and 2 Cor 5:8 clearly teach that all believers in 'christ go straight to heaven how do you reconcile these with the doctrine of purgatory? How long have you studied the scriptures because clearly you are not following God’s Word. Please be careful when responding to threads if you really dont have a clear scriptural answer. Colossians 2:8:thumbsup:

Hi ppasa316. I think this might help:

**Purgatory: Could you please explain the differences among Latin theology concerning the Dogma of Purgatory and that of the various Eastern Churches? **

As a general rule, all Eastern Christians do not use the word “Purgatory.” This includes both Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians. The word “Purgatory” is specific to the Latin tradition, and carries some specific historical baggage that makes Eastern Christians uncomfortable.

In the Medieval West, many popular theologians defined Purgatory as a specific place, where people essentially sat around and suffered. Some theologians went so far as to imply that a literal fire burns those who suffer in Purgatory. It was also popular to tally periods of time that people spent in purgatory for various offences. It is worth noting that contemporary Roman Catholic theology has (thankfully) moved beyond this approach, to a more Patristic understanding of Purgatory.

                           In the Catholic understanding, only two points are necessary dogma concerning "purgatory": 1) There is a place of transition/transformation for those en-route to Heaven, and 2) prayer is efficacious for the dead who are in this state.

The Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches agree with the Latin Church fully on both of these points. In practice, we routinely celebrate Divine Liturgies for the dead, and offer numerous prayers on their behalf. We would not do so if we did not agree with the above two dogmatic points.

But again, we do not use the word “Purgatory” for two reasons. First, it is a Latin word first used in the Medieval West, and we use Greek words to describe our theology. Second, the word “Purgatory” still carries specific Medieval baggage that we aren’t comfortable with.

It is noteworthy that my own Byzantine Catholic Church has never been required to use the word Purgatory. Our act of reunion with Rome, “The Treaty of Brest,” which was formally accepted by Pope Clement VIII, does not require us to accept the Western understanding of Purgatory.

                           Article V of the Treaty of Brest states "We shall not debate about purgatory..." implying that both sides can agree to disagree on the specifics of what the West calls "Purgatory."

In the East, we tend to have a much more positive view of the transition from death to Heaven. Rather than “Purgatory,” we prefer to call it “the Final Theosis.” This refers to the process of deification, in which the remnants of our humans nature are transformed, and we come to share in the divine life of the Trinity. Rather than seeing this as a place to “sit and suffer,” the Eastern Fathers of the Church described the Final Theosis as being a journey. While this journey can entail hardships, there are also powerful glimpses of joy.

Interestingly, Mother Angelica has repeatedly expressed a very positive understanding of “Purgatory” being a joyful state, rather than a place of suffering. In some ways her description lines up well with the Eastern understanding of the Final Theosis.

Although we do not use the same words, Eastern Orthodox/Catholics and Latin Catholics do essentially believe the same thing on this important point.

• From Dr. Anthony Dragani’s website, East2West

 

[TAB39]

That’s because in your Protestant bible, you had 7 books thrown out by your glorious Reformer Martin Luther, therefore my bible which is the original bible, never changed, never distorted, is the bible from Apostle as written 2,000 years ago. ]

?? The Bible in the Anglican church down the street from me has those 7 books in it. I know that because I was there one Sunday when the first reading in the Lectionary that week was from the Book of Ecclesiasticus.

 

[look3467]

Is it possible that there is a time of further purification or refinement as through fire even for the saved after death? >>>Brian

There can not be but a perfect specimen (soul) entering heaven period.
That perfect soul is: Jesus.

That is why that He is the only name by which mankind can be saved.

But before that happens, mankind’s souls must first be cleansed to perfection via the blood sacrifice of Jesus, or better said, washed in the blood of the lamb.

That in itself renders us a perfect fit without any further consequence.

Yes, its possible, and one does not (IMO) contravene scripture if one believes that. >>>Brian

It is my understanding that whatever belief one holds the blood of Christ covers.

The real question is: once one becomes knowledgeable of the saving grace of Christ, what will we do with it?

There lies the workable end of it. First you acquire it, than you work it out.

Working it out simply means working out the kinks of the flesh control to that of spiritual control by God. Be given to Christ.

Our sins are forgiven through the perfect and complete work of Christ and thus those who believe are saved>>>Brian

Placing a period at the end of that sentence would make that statement 100% complete without adding anything else to it.

•      but this does not preclude a concept of purification in heaven.>>>Brian

Again, only that which is pure can enter heaven.

Ref: Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I would like for you to take a good look at that verse, especially the underlined words.

“except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,”

Is Jesus saying the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees is acceptable?

After all, was it not by them that Jesus was nailed to the cross? So how then could their righteousness be acceptable for entering heaven?

The answer lies in the forgiveness by God to them made perfect for holding to the dictates of God’s instructions and directions; like wise Judas.

What this is saying Brian, is that their work in crucifying Jesus was unforgivable, yet forgivable, tells us that the work of complete cleansing has to be done here, on earth, and after this there is perfection.

…we know from scripture that there will be distinctions made in heaven among believers based upon how they followed Christ’s commandments on earth.>>>Brian

Let me reference this scripture which speaks to that: Mar 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

Jesus’ answer was that regardless of one’s work or position on this earth, the heavens positions are reserved to God’s choosing.

When I look at the stars at night, I see some brighter than others, yet they are all in the heavens.

… Critically - this is not a question of salvation (that is by faith alone) but of sanctification.>>>Brian

G38
ἁγιασμός
hagiasmos
hag-ee-as-mos’
From G37; properly purification, that is, (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier: - holiness, sanctification.

We are set apart (Sanctified) by the state of purity once we accept Jesus as our Savior, no further work needed.

Yet, because we are still in the flesh, we are working in our sanctification, to overcome the desires of the flesh to that of the spirits.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[The_Proselyte]

?? The Bible in the Anglican church down the street from me has those 7 books in it. I know that because I was there one Sunday when the first reading in the Lectionary that week was from the Book of Ecclesiasticus.

Anglicanism comprises Christian traditions from both Reformed Protestantism and Roman Catholicism, so their theologies and structure of worship represent somewhat of a middle ground. They use some of the Apocryphal books, and some additions to their bibles include the Deuterocanonical books used in the Catholic Church.

 

[Ruthie]

First of two posts. This one is off-topic.

Why don’t you quit whining and try and learn something, because you have insulted not only myself several times, but others. Take the plank out of your own eye.

OTCA, Please listen to this with an open mind and heart. The above is a perfect example of an uncharitable post that violates the principles of good apologetics. (And it shows that you really, really need to look at the beam in your own eye.)

Frankly, I do NOT want our Christian brothers to judge us Catholics based on your posts, which are both abrasive and demeaning.

 Apologetics is **not **a matter of winning or losing. It is the art of explaining and defending. You can’t get people to listen to you when you insult them and attack them personally.

We should all read this excellent article in This Rock.

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102fea1.asp

Some excerpts:

Bad habit: Assuming that you are right because the Church is right.
Remedy: Listen to your critics—yes, even non-Catholics. You may not know as much as you think you know.

Bad habit: Engaging in ad hominem attacks of any sort.
Remedy: Get over it. Fussing and whining about how mean the other guy is only makes you a crybaby.

Bad habit: Learning about generic “Protestant” doctrine and applying it to all Protestants.
Remedy: Let your Protestant friend speak for himself. Listen to what he’s saying without imposing any doctrinal template on his words.

The One who said “I am the Truth” is not served by anything but our strictest honesty and careful attention to truth. Let’s commit ourselves to speaking the truth in love, even if that means “losing” an argument, or responding to a non-Catholic with an embarrassing “I don’t know” or “I didn’t realize that.”

Or even “You’re right.”

OTCA, please stop attacking people who challenge your posts. Explain the Church, and defend her against misunderstanding. Defend her not with a sword, but with charity. Read Lk 22:47-53, and meditate on that. Jesus healed a man who had come to attack Him, and rebuked Peter for defending Him with a sword.

And a look at 1 Cor 13 might benefit you, too.

And before you get all hinky, yes, I’ve got some stuff in my own eye.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, patient and rich in mercy, have mercy on us.

Ruthie

 

[Ruthie]

Purgatory (or whatever you call it) makes sense.

When I go to Mass, I bathe, and dress in my good clothes. I am going to meet Christ. I also make myself as spiritually clean as I can.

I would like to be both physically and spiritually “clean and dressed” when I die and am judged. This is probably not possible, because there are two aspects to sin. One is the deed itself, for which Christ will forgive us if we repent. The second is the mess we made by sinning, which still needs to be cleaned up, even though we have been forgiven. (This is strongly implied in 1 Cor 3:11-15.)

If I steal something, shouldn’t I pay it back? If I covet my neighbor’s goods, shouldn’t I try to become less covetous?

It is also fair. If (when the time comes) Hugh Hefner has a deathbed conversion, is it fair that he goes to Heaven alongside a missionary who dies at the same time, whoworked in terrible conditions and was martyred for the faith? I think we can agree that the missionary should get a non-stop flight, and ol’ Mr. Playboy shouldn’t.

It is not a place where we wait for judgment. When we die, we are either going to Heaven or to Hell. Purgatory is a stop on our way to Heaven; those who chose Hell can’t go there.

I think the greater mass of us (including me, unless I take the “down” elevator) will “do some time” in Purgatory. I see it as the locker room before Heaven; we take our showers and dress in our best, and then enter Heaven.

As for “Once Saved, Always Saved,” We Catholics should never assume we know what it means to a non-Catholic Christian. The beliefs run on a sliding scale, from not believing in it at all, to saying that someone who sins wasn’t saved in the first place, all the way down to that very rare person who believes that they can sin with impunity because they are saved. (I’ve met exactly one of those, and the pastor dealt with it in a hurry!)

Also, non-Catholic Christians should never assume that we Catholics think we can work our way to Heaven. I think we have much common ground here: It is by God’s grace that we have faith. True faith will lead to good works, in imitation of the One who died for us. Sitting on our posteriors, smug in our faith, will not cut the mustard when judgment rolls around. I think most of us agree with that, don’t we? (I Cor 3:11-15 is all about this, too.)

God have mercy on us and the whole world,

Ruthie

 

[O.S.Luke]

Ruthie:

Well said. But I fear you are wasting your time.

O+

 

[look3467]

Ruthie

Truly, by your speak, I sense a very loving spirit in you.

Primarily that is of the greatest good in the body of flesh of which only God could enable that in you.

And from what I understand of scripture about God, is that, that is what He most desires in you.

All your works if made up of that same spirit, are works that are tried by God’s fire and perfected to pure gold rendering His blessings upon you in the now.

The thought of purgatory is to you but a thought and not a reality simply because your desire is to please God.
Such is the thought of hell as well.

With your spirit, hell does not exist.

Keep up the good work as in that you shall always find your joy.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[GKC]

Anglicanism comprises Christian traditions from both Reformed Protestantism and Roman Catholicism, so their theologies and structure of worship represent somewhat of a middle ground. They use some of the Apocryphal books, and some additions to their bibles include the Deuterocanonical books used in the Catholic Church.

The Anglican lectionary does include the Deuterocanonicals, but you won’t find a NT apocryphal book in an Anglican church (violating my own rule about generalizing on Anglicans, here).

GKC

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

First of two posts. This one is off-topic.

OTCA, Please listen to this with an open mind and heart. The above is a perfect example of an uncharitable post that violates the principles of good apologetics. (And it shows that you really, really need to look at the beam in your own eye.)

Frankly, I do NOT want our Christian brothers to judge us Catholics based on your posts, which are both abrasive and demeaning.

 Apologetics is **not **a matter of winning or losing. It is the art of explaining and defending. You can’t get people to listen to you when you insult them and attack them personally.

We should all read this excellent article in This Rock.

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0102fea1.asp

Some excerpts:
OTCA, please stop attacking people who challenge your posts. Explain the Church, and defend her against misunderstanding. Defend her not with a sword, but with charity. Read Lk 22:47-53, and meditate on that. Jesus healed a man who had come to attack Him, and rebuked Peter for defending Him with a sword.

And a look at 1 Cor 13 might benefit you, too.

And before you get all hinky, yes, I’ve got some stuff in my own eye.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, patient and rich in mercy, have mercy on us.

Ruthie

Ruthie, you can defend how you want. I defend my church how I want to. If it is too much for you and others well, sometimes people need a good kick in the you know what to wake up. My way works for me. Perhaps not here with the anti-Catholics on this forum, but anything anyone says they will criticize. I have had many converts to the Catholic church the way I defend it and that is with knowledge and no sugar coating. Anyway like I said, I only have to answer to God and no one else.

 

[Robbinson]

There can not be but a perfect specimen (soul) entering heaven period.
That perfect soul is: Jesus.

That is why that He is the only name by which mankind can be saved.

But before that happens, mankind’s souls must first be cleansed to perfection via the blood sacrifice of Jesus, or better said, washed in the blood of the lamb.

That in itself renders us a perfect fit without any further consequence.

It is my understanding that whatever belief one holds the blood of Christ covers.

The real question is: once one becomes knowledgeable of the saving grace of Christ, what will we do with it?

There lies the workable end of it. First you acquire it, than you work it out.

Working it out simply means working out the kinks of the flesh control to that of spiritual control by God. Be given to Christ.

Placing a period at the end of that sentence would make that statement 100% complete without adding anything else to it.

Again, only that which is pure can enter heaven.

Ref: Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I would like for you to take a good look at that verse, especially the underlined words.

“except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees,”

Is Jesus saying the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees is acceptable?

After all, was it not by them that Jesus was nailed to the cross? So how then could their righteousness be acceptable for entering heaven?

The answer lies in the forgiveness by God to them made perfect for holding to the dictates of God’s instructions and directions; like wise Judas.

What this is saying Brian, is that their work in crucifying Jesus was unforgivable, yet forgivable, tells us that the work of complete cleansing has to be done here, on earth, and after this there is perfection.

Let me reference this scripture which speaks to that: Mar 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.

Jesus’ answer was that regardless of one’s work or position on this earth, the heavens positions are reserved to God’s choosing.

When I look at the stars at night, I see some brighter than others, yet they are all in the heavens.

G38
ἁγιασμός
hagiasmos
hag-ee-as-mos’
From G37; properly purification, that is, (the state) purity; concretely (by Hebraism) a purifier: - holiness, sanctification.

We are set apart (Sanctified) by the state of purity once we accept Jesus as our Savior, no further work needed.

Yet, because we are still in the flesh, we are working in our sanctification, to overcome the desires of the flesh to that of the spirits.

Blessing’s, AJ

AJ - this was an oustanding (and very helpful) post. Thank you!

Brian

 

[Augie1530]

to misquote Master William Shakespear " Woman me thinkest thou protesteth too much" Your postings (ramblings ?) seem to be purposely written to antagonize protestants and I have seen quite a lot of it on this supposidly christian web site the past 2 to 3 weeks and I can honestly say it is rude and inconsiderate and is why there is mistrust between well meaning catholics and protestants. and Im sure your parish priest would insist you make a confession of this immediately if this came to his attention .

 

[O.S.Luke]

My way works for me.

You are making it clear that it is all about you, OTCA. You won’t even listen to fellow Catholics.

Anyway like I said, I only have to answer to God and no one else.

Living in a community of faith means that you DO answer to fellow Christians, and you ARE your brother or sister’s keeper, and they yours. That is part of living in a community of faith as opposed to being part of a gathering of individuals. I would think someone Catholic would understand that far better than a poor old Protestant like me.

I am not anti-Catholic, OTCA, no matter how much you try to paint me otherwise. The value of community can never be overemphasized - and the Holy Spirit works thru others. Maybe you ought to consider that before you throw everyone away who might care enough about you to keep you accountable to the faith.

O+

 

[look3467]

It is my experience that we are all at different levels of understandings.

Amongst Baptist for instance, I’ve found some very strict to behavioral issues, others to scriptural views to the point of alienating of one from the other.

Amongst Catholics in this forum I find the same thing.

The beautiful thing about all the differences is that out of them we can find the truth.

The truth is, as I have found is that God loves every soul.

I searched amongst many different beliefs including the Catholics for what I thought would be the common thread that would make God sovereign over all of them without respect to any one in particular.

It was right there in front of me…in the bible. I could not see it even though I’ve read it a thousand times.
It was not until I was given to take a journey through the different beliefs for the experience.

It is in the experience that we learn!

Book knowledge means nothing until it is applied in the experience.

Therefore, many of us have experienced different things, seen the applications of those things via the ability to understand them.

In the case of some of you of the same beliefs, find some divisions in understandings are in the experience mode looking, searching for greater understanding .

That is why we must be tolerant of each others views without the urgency to demand that our views be more correct.

God is Captain of our souls and knows exactly what we are able to comprehend and will cause us to be one way for the sake of the experience, and then after that may allow us to change our minds to a more mature spiritual understandings.

Never leaving the basic truth, that Jesus is our foundation.

Blessing’s, AJ

 

[denwiles]

God is truly wonderful.

I am concerned, however, that your post that I replied to previously seems to say that Jesus told a bunch of people how to be saved, knowing full well that the rules were going to change in a year or two.

It’s hard for you to understand and I’m sorry. Take the fish story and apply it to works and faith- Paul and James Ok a man wanted to be a fish, all the studying he did and swimming he did couldn’t make him a fish. But if some one could turn him into a fish then he would no longer have to try to work to become one. He would swim? Yes!!! But not to become a fish but that is who He is. Fish swim!!! We can’t work to be saved or to be come a Christian, but the Bible says through Christ we become a new creation old thing have passed away, behold all things are new. Through Jesus we become a christian and work. Yes!!! But not to be saved, but that is who we are. This is what James met----- show me your a fish and I will show you I am a fish by my gills, swimming ext…Jesus used Goat and Sheep Illustrations. The Goats didn’t know Jesus- They didn’t feed people in His Name. Thats another thing your missing!!! Evil people give to charities and feed people. Does that mean they are saved? NO!!!Jesus said in my Name give a prophet a glass of water and recieve a prophets reward. In His Name. There you have it faith and works explained together. Without works being nessecery for salvation. IT’s a GIFT. Hope this helped!!! God Bless Read Acts 15

 

[Peter_J]

It is my experience that we are all at different levels of understandings.

Amongst Baptist for instance, I’ve found some very strict to behavioral issues, others to scriptural views to the point of alienating of one from the other.

Amongst Catholics in this forum I find the same thing.

The beautiful thing about all the differences is that out of them we can find the truth.

The truth is, as I have found is that God loves every soul.

I searched amongst many different beliefs including the Catholics for what I thought would be the common thread that would make God sovereign over all of them without respect to any one in particular.

It was right there in front of me…in the bible. I could not see it even though I’ve read it a thousand times.
It was not until I was given to take a journey through the different beliefs for the experience.

It is in the experience that we learn!

Book knowledge means nothing until it is applied in the experience.

Therefore, many of us have experienced different things, seen the applications of those things via the ability to understand them.

In the case of some of you of the same beliefs, find some divisions in understandings are in the experience mode looking, searching for greater understanding .

That is why we must be tolerant of each others views without the urgency to demand that our views be more correct.

God is Captain of our souls and knows exactly what we are able to comprehend and will cause us to be one way for the sake of the experience, and then after that may allow us to change our minds to a more mature spiritual understandings.

Never leaving the basic truth, that Jesus is our foundation.

Blessing’s, AJ

That’s a beautiful post, look3467.

I’m only sorry to see that all this hasn’t led you to the one true Church.

 

[Peter_J]

It’s hard for you to understand and I’m sorry. Take the fish story and apply it to works and faith- Paul and James Ok a man wanted to be a fish, all the studying he did and swimming he did couldn’t make him a fish. But if some one could turn him into a fish then he would no longer have to try to work to become one. He would swim? Yes!!! But not to become a fish but that is who He is. Fish swim!!! We can’t work to be saved or to be come a Christian, but the Bible says through Christ we become a new creation old thing have passed away, behold all things are new. Through Jesus we become a christian and work. Yes!!! But not to be saved, but that is who we are. This is what James met----- show me your a fish and I will show you I am a fish by my gills, swimming ext…Jesus used Goat and Sheep Illustrations. The Goats didn’t know Jesus- They didn’t feed people in His Name. Thats another thing your missing!!! Evil people give to charities and feed people. Does that mean they are saved? NO!!!Jesus said in my Name give a prophet a glass of water and recieve a prophets reward. In His Name. There you have it faith and works explained together. Without works being nessecery for salvation. IT’s a GIFT. Hope this helped!!! God Bless Read Acts 15

Great post, denwiles. I’ve never heard it put quite like that before.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

You are making it clear that it is all about you, OTCA. You won’t even listen to fellow Catholics.

Living in a community of faith means that you DO answer to fellow Christians, and you ARE your brother or sister’s keeper, and they yours. That is part of living in a community of faith as opposed to being part of a gathering of individuals. I would think someone Catholic would understand that far better than a poor old Protestant like me.

I am not anti-Catholic, OTCA, no matter how much you try to paint me otherwise. The value of community can never be overemphasized - and the Holy Spirit works thru others. Maybe you ought to consider that before you throw everyone away who might care enough about you to keep you accountable to the faith.

O+

O.S. Luke, why do you worry about me? i am extremely content in my faith through Jesus. Like I said, I ONLY HAVE TO ANSWER TO GOD, NOT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE’S INSULTS. Only God can judge me. What is it as a Protestant you don’t get? (That may be a stupid question)…

 

[racing59]

Your question strikes me as odd, because I believe that the Catholic Church has made it clear that you can be saved without being RC (in communion with Rome).

?

Sorry I could not get back to you sooner, I had to race.You are right about the teachings of RCC. My question was more for OTCA, because she is always posting, there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. This kind of prejudice offends me because it is no were in Scripture or what John Paul II had to say!/B]