Protestants, has the reformation project run its course?

[Lincoln7]

Hi all,

This is an interesting question that can only be answered this way. There are more infallibly interpreted scriptures by the OHCAC than there are by any Protestant group. That number for Protestants would be “O”…since there is no infallible interpreting person or body to deliver the punch line for Sola Sciptura. The book is inerrant and infallible however Protestants threw away the key to infallible interpretation with the Reformation.

I did some googling and found this: catholic-convert.com/wp-content/uploads/Documents/BibleVersesDefinedByChurch.doc

Peace

Lincs.

 

[mitex]

I think sadly that this is largely correct. I know my independent Baptist, fairly fundamentalist leaning family members are fiercely proud of the fact that “no one tells us what to do”. This sentiment is directly contrary to what we see plainly in the Scriptures of the way the Church was instituted, such as Matthew 18, or the clear Apostolic authority handed on from the apostles and St. Paul to their next in succession, the Council at Jerusalem, etc., but there it is. I wouldn’t say this to my family, as I love them, but at some point, that attitude starts to seem like arrogance and pride. But no, I don’t see much hope for reconciliation with evangelicals of that stripe. Too much water under the bridge, too many issues to overcome at this point.

Personally I never understood how anyone could sit through the same service every single Sunday with the exception of the homily. It’s one of the reasons I didn’t complete RCIA.

(That was just an observation no offense Catholics).

Personally I look forward to a varied and independent worship style when I go to Church. About the only thing that’s the same in my Church is the communion liturgy. Everything else is different every Sunday. Different songs, different sermon etc.

Of course I am a “low church” Episcopalian who is strongly Evangelical. High Church Episcopalians are very similar to Catholics in terms of liturgy and worship styles.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

1. The Protestants will never accept Roman leadership and authority over them especially Evangelistic Christians like myself.
2. Personally I find the RC Church’s rigid adherence to a hierarchy and tradition over the scriptures and a relationship with Jesus to be distasteful.

1. What is so difficult to obey? What does Evangelistic Christian mean?
2. What hierarchy and traditions are over the scriptures and a relationship with Jesus?

Thanks.

 

[Arizona_Samson]

The reformers, some of whom lived to regret their own prideful rebellion, are spinning in their graves.

Methinks they’re rejoicing in the presence of Glory after being told** “Well done good and faithful servant.” (Matt 25:23)**

 

[mitex]

1. What is so difficult to obey? What does Evangelistic Christian mean?
2. What hierarchy and traditions are over the scriptures and a relationship with Jesus?

Thanks.

An Evangelical Christian an American Christian who rejects central hierarchical Churches, formed liturgy, and tradition. Evangelicals are justified through faith in Jesus Christ as our personal lord and savior.

Once we accept Jesus we’re saved no matter what. Things such as communion are only representations of our faith.

Each Church congregation is also independent. The Vatican and Pope don’t tell us what to do or how to worship.

 

[mark_a]

They don’t want a hierarchy of Bishops telling them how to run their churches and how to worship.

Along with the non-Catholic world.

But the world doesn’t need a Church to tell them what is right when the world is right. The world needs a Church to tell what is right when the world is wrong.

 

[mark_a]

Methinks they’re rejoicing in the presence of Glory after being told** “Well done good and faithful servant.” (Matt 25:23)**

I won’t disagree. But can you imagine their thoughts on what the reformation, with it’s modern day “reformers” touting them as heroes, has become??? Especially concerning sexual morality teachings?

 

[mitex]

Along with the non-Catholic world.

But the world doesn’t need a Church to tell them what is right when the world is right. The world needs a Church to tell what is right when the world is wrong.

With respect Mark the Catholic Church has no business telling my Church what to do, believe, or practice.

That’s part of religious freedom my friend

 

[Isaiah45_9]

An Evangelical Christian an American Christian who rejects central hierarchical Churches, formed liturgy, and tradition. Evangelicals are justified through faith in Jesus Christ as our personal lord and savior.

Once we accept Jesus we’re saved no matter what. Things such as communion are only representations of our faith.

Each Church congregation is also independent. The Vatican and Pope don’t tell us what to do or how to worship.

Thank you mitex,

I too have Faith in Jesus Christ.

What do you mean when you say that you have Faith in Jesus Christ?

Thanks.

 

[mitex]

Thank you mitex,

I too have Faith in Jesus Christ.

What do you mean when you say that you have Faith in Jesus Christ?

Thanks.

See this. It will help

 

[andrewstx]

Mitek is a very unique Episcopalian, please don’t take him as an example of Episcopalians in general.

I was converted from the Episcopal church, and a low church diocese at that.

There was not a single parish in the diocese that espoused what mitex does.

Apparently he represents a tiny minority of Episcopalians. Before he came along I had never in my life heard an Episcopalian espouse things like once saved always saved.

It is likely he came from a Baptist or other fundamentalist sect and brought a lot of baggage with him.

 

[mitex]

Mitek is a very unique Episcopalian, please don’t take him as an example of Episcopalians in general.

I was converted from the Episcopal church, and a low church diocese at that.

There was not a single parish in the diocese that espoused what mitex does.

Apparently he represents a tiny minority of Episcopalians. Before he came along I had never in my life heard an Episcopalian espouse things like once saved always saved.

It is likely he came from a Baptist or other fundamentalist sect and brought a lot of baggage with him.

Most Episcopalian Evangelicals have separated from the actual Church. And mind you a lot of “baggage?!” How dare you.

 

[mitex]

blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2009/07/the_new_remnant_1.html

Here’s a good article on us.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

See this. It will help

Thanks for the link, please don’t take this wrong but I can wiki all day long

You said that Jesus is your personal savior because of your faith in Him. I would like to know what you mean by that.

For example,

I believe that faith in Jesus Christ is to believe that He is the Son of the Living God and that what He says I must obey because i trust Him, because He has saved me.

Would you say that you faith in Jesus Christ is what I have said above?

 

[mitex]

Thanks for the link, please don’t take this wrong but I can wiki all day long

You said that Jesus is your personal savior because of your faith in Him. I would like to know what you mean by that.

For example,

I believe that faith in Jesus Christ is to believe that He is the Son of the Living God and that what He says I must obey because i trust Him, because He has saved me.

Would you say that you faith in Jesus Christ is what I have said above?

Ehhh I think your better off sticking to mass and Eucharist every Sunday with the Catholic Church. You seem to be quite happy there.

 

[mark_a]

With respect Mark the Catholic Church has no business telling my Church what to do, believe, or practice.

I agree and so does the Church. If someone wants Catholic teaching and to call himself Catholic, he should join the Catholic Church.

 

[mitex]

I agree and so does the Church. If someone wants Catholic teaching and to call himself Catholic, he should join the Catholic Church.

 

[JPeter]

What concerns me is that we have the catechism of the Catholic Church which is very good and then we have what actually is being believed in many Catholic Churches which is not very good. I saw my Mother in law praying the rosary and I asked her which mysteries she was meditating on and looked at me funny like she had never heard of that before. Its stuff like this. The whole point of praying the rosary are the mysteries without those it is worthless repetitive prayer. How can a lifelong Catholic who has attended mass her entire life not understand that? The thing is, is that she is not the only one. It boggles my mind at how many Catholics do not understand the basic doctrines of Christianity. I’m not saying the Priests and deacons believe that way, but once it gets down to the lay people we have some real problems. This is not the case in Anglican or Lutheran parishes. As far as the basics go even the newest laymen can explain the apostles creed, the lords prayer, and the ten commandments.

 

[Blacksword]

Personally I never understood how anyone could sit through the same service every single Sunday with the exception of the homily. It’s one of the reasons I didn’t complete RCIA.

(That was just an observation no offense Catholics).

Personally I look forward to a varied and independent worship style when I go to Church. About the only thing that’s the same in my Church is the communion liturgy. Everything else is different every Sunday. Different songs, different sermon etc.

Of course I am a “low church” Episcopalian who is strongly Evangelical. High Church Episcopalians are very similar to Catholics in terms of liturgy and worship styles.

As a Catholic convert from Baptist background where there is no liturgy and things are very open in worship, I would first say that your characterization is inaccurate. The hymns are different each week, the cycles and seasons change the mass (no Gloria during Lent to instance), and so forth. But secondly, as to what does not ever change in the Mass: why change something that is beautiful and perfect the way it is? You can’t beat perfection!

 

[Radical]

So, has the reformation project run its course?

Project? Kinda like calling WWII a bit of a dust up. In any event, I think that for the most part it has…

With the Reformation and with what has followed Rome has lost its ability to impose its beliefs and censor opposing beliefs. As a result, for a vast section of Christianity, Catholicism is rather irrelevant. They hear about Catholicism when there is a sex scandal or when the Pope makes some trip, but apart from that, what the Catholic hierarchy says and doesn’t affect them in the least. They have no interest in reforming the Catholic Church further or in uniting with it….their concern is with their own congregation and its sister congregations. For them the Reformation has run its course.

For another set of Christians Catholicism is seen as offering a poorer, rival interpretation of Christ’s message. Catholicism isn’t irrelevant b/c they look to convert Catholics and thanks to the Reformation (and what followed) are free to do exactly that. They have no interest in reforming the Catholic Church or in uniting with it, they understand that it is far more practical to simply have the Catholic leave the CC and join a different denomination (theirs). …. For them the Reformation has run its course.

With the Reformation and with what has followed, even within the CC, Rome has (apparently) lost its ability to impose its beliefs and censor opposing beliefs. As a result, one is free to disagree with Rome (to a degree equal with Luther)from within the Catholic Church…with impunity. Such folks want to reform the Catholic Church, but their goal seems to be entirely different. The Reformation was concerned (to a considerable degree) with returning to original doctrine and practice, whereas I believe modern Catholic Reformers (to a considerable degree) want to modernize doctrine and practice….theirs would be a different reformation and so for them the Reformation has run its course.

There are, of course, a bunch very conservative Catholics who are inclined to refer to the Reformation as the Deformation or the Revolt (and maybe even a project)…For them the Reformation served a very limited purpose in waking up the CC to minor reforms which were necessary and undertaken…For them, the Reformation ran its course. As for the Orthodox, I would think it would be fair to say that, for them the Reformation has run its course.

I have no idea what percentage of Christendom falls into the five groups that I have generalized about above, but the only Christians for which I don’t think the Reformation has run its course are those such as JonNC (bless him and his never failing optimism)….and they seem to be a rather small minority.