M
Mannyfit75
Guest
Yes, but is your sin retain or forgiven? How are you certain?
- Status
P
PauloFreire2
Guest
This business of being ‘saved’ is very misguided. I’m sure Paul was not promoting antinomianism by stressing the importance of salvation by faith. Moreover, the Book of James was added to the New Testament to deliberately off-set any exaggerations of Paulist thought that might arise. Luther, the Father of Protestantism, was most illogical. He taught ‘sola scriptura’, yet loathed part of the ‘scriptura’ he was obsessed with – James. So, he didn’t really believe in the entire Bible, after all, but just those parts with which he agreed. That was and remains scandalous, from logical and Biblical perspectives. No…no one is ‘saved’ until he’s acquiited at the Final Judgment. As long as people live, they can sin, and they must account for all their sins, whether they consider themselves ‘saved’ at the time of their commission or not. No one has the authority to declare himself ‘saved’, however mesmerized he might be by isolated and misinterpreted passages and ideas found in the Bible. 
J
Jennifer_G
Guest
In our church, the pastor says this during the “Brief Order for Confession and Forgiveness” (usually within 5 minutes of the start of the church service). Then, we say,
“We confess that we are in bondage to sin, and cannot free ourselves. We have sinned against you in thought, word and deed, by what we have done, and by what we have left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart. We have not loved our neighbors as ourselves. For the sake of your Son, have mercy on us, forgive us, renew us, and lead us, so that we make delight in your will, and walk in your ways, in the glory of your holy name. Amen.”.
(that’s from memory, might not be exact, but it’s pretty close).
Then the pastor says one of two things -
“By His grace and mercy, God declares you forgiveness of all your sins…”
or
“By the power and authority vested in me, I hereby declare you forgiveness of all your sins”.
Of course, Lutherans also believe that you can simply ask God for forgiveness, too.
R
rbarcia
Guest
The RC priests of today are not the Apostles.
When replacing Judas in Acts 1, the Apostles made it clear it had to be someone who witnessed the Resurrection:
**
Acts 1
20For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
**
Paul was also a witness to the Resurrection since Christ appeared to Him directly.
I do not see any specific mention of apostles passing the ability to forgive sins to anyone. Nor do I see evidence of them actually conducting confession.
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
I have always thought that that was only a gift of the Apostles and when they died that gift died with them. I have never found any proof that that was passed on to anyone and it was always just for the Apostles.
Z
Zooey
Guest
Publisher is a Quaker. But “Quaker” is a name given to them by others. The proper name of Publisher’s denomination is “The Religious Society of Friends”. And they call their church, the “Friends Church”.
[SIGN]We now return to our regularly scheduled discussion.[/SIGN]
L
LilyM
Guest
I never found any proof that Christ was an Indian giver and took back gifts that he gave to humanity either :nope:Hi,
I have always thought that that was only a gift of the Apostles and when they died that gift died with them. I have never found any proof that that was passed on to anyone and it was always just for the Apostles.
Nor proof that the Apostles didn’t or couldn’t pass on gifts or offices - for example through the laying on of hands. Wasn’t that kinda the point of Simon Magus trying to pay Peter to pass on his gifts to him, because he knew Peter could???
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
Don’t they live like the Amish, with horse and buggy and no electricity? If that is so, how does he have a computer with internet?
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
Here is an article on Apostolic Succession.
Your partially correct. The Bishops are in fact the direct descendants and successors of the Apostles. They have the fullness of the episcopal ministry. The priests are successors of the Apostles in their unity with their Bishop. (I don’t think I explain this very well, and if you need clarifying just ask and I will attempt again).
Here is an article on Apostolic Succession.
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
Hi,
I dont think he is an indian giver either. I just think he gives certain people gifts only and not others. I do believe the 12 Apostles had this gift to use for God’s purpose and it died with them.
I need to do reesearch on this topic. It is not something I have ever really looked into in depth.
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
True. However, the Apostles after they died they pass their authority to the bishops, their successors. Paul himself was not an apostle but was received into the Church and ordained by one of the disciple after his conversion.
JMJ Code, provided a link of the on Apostolic Succession from Catholic Answers tract.
However, I would refrain from derailing this thread into Apostolic Succession.
The question here is how are you certain, your sins are forgiven or retain?
M
Mannyfit75
Guest
The concept that this gift to forgive sins died with the apostles is ridicules. Did not Jesus send the apostles to preach, ALL that he had commanded them, and in doing so he granted onto them the same authority, and the apostles handed this authority to forgive sins to their sucessors, the bishops, who in turn granted it to the priest?Hi,
I dont think he is an indian giver either. I just think he gives certain people gifts only and not others. I do believe the 12 Apostles had this gift to use for God’s purpose and it died with them.
I need to do reesearch on this topic. It is not something I have ever really looked into in depth.
I think he did. Second, where exactly in Scripture that the gift to forgive sins disappeared with the death of the last apostles. Now that is going outside Scripture, don’t you think?
I
Inman
Guest
- You have faith that by giving the ability to bind and loose to the Apostles, that Christ meant for that power to survive beyond the apostles.
- You have faith that apostles in fact passed on that power in a way that was effective.
- You have faith that nothing the church has done in 2000 years would interupt the passing on of the power to bind and loose.
- You have faith that the Bishops, the successors of the Apostles, can delegate their power to bind and loose to individual priests.
Many protestants believe, or at least I did before I converted, that believing that Jesus Christ is the son of god and died on the cross for our sins and trying to live the way he would want us to is enough. You ought to ask God to forgive you of your sins, but the faith in Jesus is enough. His death has already fogiven any penaty for our sins.
John 3:16 is probably the most often qouted verse for this proposition.
T
Tomster
Guest
St. Pacien (c 390 A.D.) proves in his work “Epistles”, 1:7, that this power was not given to the Apostles alone, but was passed on to their successors. He writes, “But perhaps this power was only given to the Apostles? Then to them alone was it permitted to baptise, to them alone was it granted to remove the sins of the world. For all these were ordered to no others but to the Apostles . . . If, therefore, the power to baptise and to confirm has come to the bishops from the Apostles, so too have they the power to bind and to loose.”
He states here the principle by which we know that this power was given to the Church permanently: whatever powers are needed for the Church’s work, even though the words conferring them were necessarily spoken to the Apostles alone, are also given to their successors. The power of forgiveness is obviously necessary for the salvation of men. Our Lord makes it clear that he gave it to the Church that she might continue his work; he introduces its bestowal by saying, “As the Father has sent me, I also send you.”
This power, therefore, is one that the Church must wield for all time, for it is given to her to enable her to accomplish her mission.
It is also at least suggested by our Lord’s words that only priests can forgive sins. It is a judicial power. But no judge can exercise his authority without a definite commission, a commission which in any society is given only to qualified officials.
The Church is a perfect society, with her own officials, and normally these alone can exercise authority in matters concerning the purpose of the society; therefore these alone can validly exercise this juridical power.
“This right is granted only to priests.” "Christ granted this right to his Apostles, and it was transmitted by the Apostles to the priests, " says St. Ambrose (c. 333 - 397 A.D.) in his work De Poenitentia. In these two sentences he sums up for us Christian Tradition and the implication of our Lord’s words.
A
ALLFORHIM
Guest
I havent a clue because like I said I have not studied this issue at all.The concept that this gift to forgive sins died with the apostles is ridicules. Did not Jesus send the apostles to preach, ALL that he had commanded them, and in doing so he granted onto them the same authority, and the apostles handed this authority to forgive sins to their sucessors, the bishops, who in turn granted it to the priest?
I think he did. Second, where exactly in Scripture that the gift to forgive sins disappeared with the death of the last apostles. Now that is going outside Scripture, don’t you think?
P
Publisher
Guest
Does being baptized in the same Spirit count?
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
I don’t know, what do you mean by this?
P
Publisher
Guest
“Friends” is the name we call ourselves…Jesus told his disciples…“Up to now I have called you servants…but now I call you friends…you are my friends if you do what I have commanded of you.”
“Quaker” was the nickname others called the first Publishers of Truth or Children of the Light…it stuck…it was adopted as a badge of honor…much like “Christian” was in the first century.
The Religious Society of Friends began in the 17th century…not as a new church but as a group of Seekers of the Light…we met for Worship whereever we could gather…eventually we built Meeting houses…during some of the revivals of the 19th century some Friends decided they wanted to organize as a church and adopt more Protestant ways…they formed Friend’s Churches…the Society of Friends still meets together for worship…many Friends are comfortable in the church setting, but others of us like the unprogrammed Meetings for Worship.
P
Publisher
Guest
Friends for over three hundred years have witnessed and affirmed that God through His Holy Spirit regenerates man…water baptism has not been part of our tradition…one can enter the waters of baptism a dry sinner and come out a wet one…but no one being immersed in the regenerative power of the Holy Spirt can remain unchanged.
One Lord, one Faith, one Baptism…the one baptism…the baptism with fire and the Holy Spirit is the one baptism Friends have affirmed is the one that truly cleanses men of sin…not a popular view here on this forum I realize, but the “symbol” is never a substitute for the reality…Friend’s views of “sacrament” is a bit more “radical” than most other Christians…just as the Anabaptists (rebaptizers) were drowned for their beliefs, many Friends were drowned and spent time in prison to witness of their belief that the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer…
I guess the closest understanding would be “baptism by desire”…water baptism isn’t part of our tradition…bu Spirit baptism is.
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, **He is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. **
It would be forgiven according to Gods promise above. Thats how I would know.
Also dont assume its ALL sins I do, its what I confess and do something about.
Im just answering this particular question as you asked btw, the details are on another thread of what the process is, Id have to dig them out.
- Status