Protestants, how are you certain your sins are forgiven?

[ncgolf]

I would agree with you that a hole in that write up at gotquestions.org is not offering an alternate response to that verse in question. However I think it was a fairly thorough approach to why it would deem questionable to take it as an isolated verse without seeing scripture as a whole…which is what I think most protestant-inclined believers on this thread have been saying.

I would also agree that it is a tough verse to understand. I’m still mulling it over. However, I did find what I thought was a good response of an explanation of that verse in post #118.

Is it just me or does this discussion feel a bit heated? Or maybe not ?

In Christ,
Christina

No not at all. I tend to write very short and to the point … don’t take it the wrong way at all. I guess I am not a warm and fuzzy but I hold no grudges either.

 

[chutton]

No not at all. I tend to write very short and to the point … don’t take it the wrong way at all. I guess I am not a warm and fuzzy but I hold no grudges either.

Awesome! Just checking! And by the way to-the-point is great! Just making sure we’re not getting offended by each other and speaking with love to one another.

In Christ,
Christina

 

[ncgolf]

I would agree with you that a hole in that write up at gotquestions.org is not offering an alternate response to that verse in question. However I think it was a fairly thorough approach to why it would deem questionable to take it as an isolated verse without seeing scripture as a whole…which is what I think most protestant-inclined believers on this thread have been saying.

I would also agree that it is a tough verse to understand. I’m still mulling it over. However, I did find what I thought was a good response of an explanation of that verse in post #118.

Is it just me or does this discussion feel a bit heated? Or maybe not ?

In Christ,
Christina

The Bible does not say everything but it does lead us to where Christ wants us to go. I always found the arguments saying it does not specially say something explicitlly to be particulary weak arguments especially without offering a logical alternative. I agree that this passage should not be taken all by itself but it can be understood on its own … then supported by other areas. These things should not contradict but you should be able to take the words as Christ said them … there is no reason why Christ says one thing and means something else.

The other reason the “its not explicitly stated” arguments are weak is the argument what if it does say it explicilty. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. “Whose sins you forgive are forgiven and whose sins retain are retained” is there in black and white. The argument in your citation makes it difficult to rebut since one is rebutting about something that does not exist. You might as well say pandas contradict scripture since they are not mentioned. I prefer to look at what is there. That is why I asked how can a sin be forgiven as described by Christ … lets say by Peter. You would have to tell him. What other ways could Peter forgive? That explanation does not contradict scripture but does make sense in the context of what is written.

 

[dessert]

Well what do you consider the priest to be?

Why did you confess to your pastor, I assume a man if you do not want to confess to a priest a man?

I had a hangup with men, which is one reason why it took me so long to come back, my dad was an atheist and mean and my husband is nice but not a good confessor because he essentially says I don’t care.
but I am not trying to make excuses as I kneew priests are nice and honest but it helps to know that they are compassionet also.
Dessert

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Why did you confess to your pastor, I assume a man if you do not want to confess to a priest a man?

I had a hangup with men, which is one reason why it took me so long to come back, my dad was an atheist and mean and my husband is nice but not a good confessor because he essentially says I don’t care.
but I am not trying to make excuses as I kneew priests are nice and honest but it helps to know that they are compassionet also.
Dessert

I dont confess to my pastor unless I have wronged him. My hubby isnt that compassionate at all. He is also not saved so asking forgiveness from him or even apologizing is very difficult for me because he is not a forgiving type person.
I actually only ask a person forgiveness if I have wronged them. Any other sin I commit I just go right to God and ask Him forgiveness because I know He will forgive me.

 

[Lampo]

I dont confess to my pastor unless I have wronged him. My hubby isnt that compassionate at all. He is also not saved so asking forgiveness from him or even apologizing is very difficult for me because he is not a forgiving type person.
I actually only ask a person forgiveness if I have wronged them. Any other sin I commit I just go right to God and ask Him forgiveness because I know He will forgive me.

When the scripture says, “confess your sins to one another” I assume you take that to mean to confess to someone you have wronged. What if you wrong someone and you or that person dies before you have a chance to confess to him/her?

 

[dessert]

I dont confess to my pastor unless I have wronged him. My hubby isnt that compassionate at all. He is also not saved so asking forgiveness from him or even apologizing is very difficult for me because he is not a forgiving type person.
I actually only ask a person forgiveness if I have wronged them. Any other sin I commit I just go right to God and ask Him forgiveness because I know He will forgive me.

Sorry I got you mixed up with Awantz, I reread the post. I like to go to my priest because I can talk with him and find out if I have really sinned because I may be experiencing false guilt and feel it is a greater sin than it really is, or no sin at all. I’m sorry to hear your DH is not compassionate.
This is the other thing I have learned is my salvation doesn’t really depend on getting forgiven by another person like my DH, yes if I lie to him I tell him I am sorry but it isn’t his forgiveness that I need yes God’s, but my confessor and confidant is my priest as he can help me if it isn’t me at al just the devil trying to beat me over the head with a stick.
And there may be somehting that I don’t want to discuss with my DH but if I gossip about it with others they may blab and then things get all over and the priest is sworn to confidence. This can be called venting which can also get out of hand, but I mostly talk with him about my marriage relationship which has helped my marriage a bit, and also given me and identity alone with God. You probably already feel you have this or in worship with others. My DH doesnot go to church either but does believe, but does not trust a man priest. This part confuses me about non-C and I was one, I would go to other women have heart to heart talks or anyone else and a good friend but nothing really worked (and these people would turn around and stab me in the back just as sure ) and was willing to confess all but then would not want to go to priest. Doesn’t it seem strange that we go to complete strangers sometimes an bear all our griefs but not a priest. Priest are professsionals they probably counsel more people that the most busy psychologists. The absolution from my priest is part of the gift of the sacrament. If I didn’t get it, it would be like getting baptized with out water, now I’m going to blow air on you so you are baptized or married without the vow or the I do or maybe saying I do but not really I hope you will attend an RCIA class and get more answers to your questions. Just because you go does not mean you have to join the Church and you can still attend your own Church and receive communion there, till you make up your mind. I will pray for you on the request forum Dessert

 

[ALLFORHIM]

When the scripture says, “confess your sins to one another” I assume you take that to mean to confess to someone you have wronged. What if you wrong someone and you or that person dies before you have a chance to confess to him/her?

Funny you should ask that because that has happened to me. I then go to God because that is all I can do at that point.

 

[dessert]

Funny you should ask that because that has happened to me. I then go to God because that is all I can do at that point.

Do you see what we are trying to get at, you are seeking forgiveness from humans? But on the other side of the coin saying priests don’t have the power to forgive and give absolution?

Dessert

 

[DLC]

I am certain that all of my sins, past, present, and future were forgiven the very moment I placed my faith In Jesus Christ alone for my salvation.
Rom 4:7-8

7 **"BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN,
AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. **8 “BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”
NASU

Eph 4:32
32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
NASU

Col 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
NASU

1 John 2:12

12 I am writing to you, little children, **because your sins have been forgiven you **for His name’s sake.
NASU

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Do you see what we are trying to get at, you are seeking forgiveness from humans? But on the other side of the coin saying priests don’t have the power to forgive and give absolution?

Dessert

I found this that sums up what I believe much better then I could:
“Do we need to confess our sins to those we have sinned against?”

“Walking in the light” (1 John 1:7) means that we are living in obedience to God’s commandments. In the same verse we have references to forgiveness through Christ and “fellowship one with another.” So, there is a connection between having a “clean slate” and our relationship with other people.

Every sin is ultimately committed against God (Psalm 51:4). The Bible consistently emphasizes our need to confess our sins to Him (Psalm 41:4; 130:4; Acts 8:22; 1 John 1:9). As for the confession of our sins to people, the Bible gives no blanket command. We are told many times to confess our sins to the Lord, but the only direct command to confess to someone else is in the context of church elders praying on behalf of the sick (James 5:16).

This does not mean that we are never to seek another person’s forgiveness. The Bible gives examples of confession to other people. One is Joseph’s brothers asking for his forgiveness in Genesis 50:17-18. And person-to-person confession is implied in such passages as Luke 17:3-4; Ephesians 4:32; and Colossians 3:13.

The principles here seem to be 1) We should seek forgiveness from the Lord for every sin. He desires “truth in the inward parts” (Psalm 51:6). 2) If our relationship with the Lord is right, our relationships with other people will fall in line. We will treat others graciously, with justice and honesty (Psalm 15). To sin against someone and not attempt to make it right would be unthinkable. 3) The extent of the apology for a sin should match the extent of the impact of the sin. Or, we should seek forgiveness of whoever was directly involved in order to insure healing.

For example, if a man looks with lust at a woman, he should immediately confess the sin to the Lord. It would not be needed or appropriate to confess that sin to the woman. That sin is between the man and the Lord. However, if a man breaks a promise, or does something that directly impacts the woman, he must confess to her and seek her forgiveness. If a sin involves a large number of people, such as a church, a man or woman must then extend the confession to the members of the church. So, the confession and apology should match the impact. Those impacted should hear the confession.

So, while our forgiveness with God is not dependant on us confessing our sins to others and/or them forgiving us - God does call us to be honest and forthcoming with others regarding our failings, especially when it involves others. When we have offended, hurt, and sinned against others, we should seek to offer a sincere apology and confession, and ask for forgiveness. Whether the forgiveness is granted is up to those who were confessed to. Our responsibility is to genuinely repent, confess the sin, and ask for forgiveness.

 

[chutton]

Do you see what we are trying to get at, you are seeking forgiveness from humans? But on the other side of the coin saying priests don’t have the power to forgive and give absolution?

Dessert

Just to clarify, we are not expecting the forgiveness granted us by man to cleanse us of the sin, even if someone we have wronged does not extend forgiveness to us in the face of a truly contrite confession. We depend on God to know our heart and forgive our sin. There is a drastic difference between the power Catholicism ascribes to a priest to forgive and give absolution and the forgiveness extended by our fellow man for a wrong we have committed againt him/her.

 

[chutton]

We received this at a church prayer meeting awhile back and spent time reflecting and praying through the questions listed. Thought some may be interested in it for your quiet time with God. I know this whole thread has made me think it is time to APPLY and ask God to reveal the sin in my own life.

---

SEARCH ME O GOD, AND KNOW MY HEART

Am I really concerned about the things of God?
Am I willing to pay the price for personal revival?
Am I willing to do anything God wants me to do?
Is God FIRST in my plans?
Am I sinning the sin of prayerlessness?
Have I neglected the Word of God?
Have I forgiven everyone?
Is all resentment out of my heart?
Am I willing to ask forgiveness from anyone I have wronged in any way?
Am I impatient?
Am I irritable?
Am I offended easily?
Do my “hurt feelings” keep me from serving God?
Do I get angry?
Do I bear grudges?
Do I “blow up”?
Do I “swell up” with resentment?
Do I have enmity toward anyone?
Am I willing—here and now—to ask God to help me put it out of my heart? (Matthew 6:12-15 and 18:21-35; Luke 6:27-37)
Have I, in any way, been dishonest with God?
Have I been dishonest with my church?
Have I broken any promise or pledge made to God or to His church? My family?
Since my emergency or crisis is past, have I kept the promises I made in prayer?
Am I dishonest with others?
Do I try to leave a wrong impression if I can do it without really telling a lie?
What about covetousness?
Am I too concerned about THINGS?
Have I sought material blessings more than SPIRITUAL blessings?
Is there anything in my life that I would be unwilling to give up for Christ?
Do I deny myself daily to follow Jesus?
Have I paid all my debts to others?
Do I have anything in my possession that does not
RIGHTLY belong to me?
Do I have any habit that I should forsake?
Have I asked God’s help?
Is there jealousy in my heart?
Do I have sinful pride in my heart?
Have I wronged anyone and failed to make restitution?
Can I keep a secret?
Is the reputation of another safe in my hands?
Have I been a tale-bearer or a gossip?
Have I hurt someone—or my church—by needless talk about someone’s faults?
Even if it was true—did I glorify my Lord by telling it?
Did I pray for those involved?
Is my mind HONEST and CLEAN in the sight of God?
Are my thoughts PURE?
Am I faithful to my wedding vows—in DEED? in THOUGHT?
Is my home a testimony for Jesus?
Am I willing and ready to forgive any wrong against me or against my family?
Do I have any SECRET SIN that I excuse, but should forsake?
Have I forgiven those who have talked about me?
Those who have talked about my loved ones?
Do I have a right attitude toward my fellow church members?
Do I have a right attitude toward leaders in the church?
Does my pastor KNOW that he can count on me?
Did I meet every situation today as a Christian should?
Have I honestly tried to be a good witness for Christ today?
Have I worried or been over-anxious about things over which I have no control?
Did I fret?
Did I complain?
Was I guilty of the sin of unbelief?
Do I believe in the power of God to:
· Cleanse ANY sinner?
· Change ANY life?
· Take care of ANY situation?
· Guide ME in my decisions?

REMEMBER NOW THE MARVELOUS GRACE OF GOD…

AND THANK HIM FOR FORGIVING YOU

 

[ALLFORHIM]

We received this at a church prayer meeting awhile back and spent time reflecting and praying through the questions listed. Thought some may be interested in it for your quiet time with God. I know this whole thread has made me think it is time to APPLY and ask God to reveal the sin in my own life.

---

SEARCH ME O GOD, AND KNOW MY HEART

Am I really concerned about the things of God?
Am I willing to pay the price for personal revival?
Am I willing to do anything God wants me to do?
Is God FIRST in my plans?
Am I sinning the sin of prayerlessness?
Have I neglected the Word of God?
Have I forgiven everyone?
Is all resentment out of my heart?
Am I willing to ask forgiveness from anyone I have wronged in any way?
Am I impatient?
Am I irritable?
Am I offended easily?
Do my “hurt feelings” keep me from serving God?
Do I get angry?
Do I bear grudges?
Do I “blow up”?
Do I “swell up” with resentment?
Do I have enmity toward anyone?
Am I willing—here and now—to ask God to help me put it out of my heart? (Matthew 6:12-15 and 18:21-35; Luke 6:27-37)
Have I, in any way, been dishonest with God?
Have I been dishonest with my church?
Have I broken any promise or pledge made to God or to His church? My family?
Since my emergency or crisis is past, have I kept the promises I made in prayer?
Am I dishonest with others?
Do I try to leave a wrong impression if I can do it without really telling a lie?
What about covetousness?
Am I too concerned about THINGS?
Have I sought material blessings more than SPIRITUAL blessings?
Is there anything in my life that I would be unwilling to give up for Christ?
Do I deny myself daily to follow Jesus?
Have I paid all my debts to others?
Do I have anything in my possession that does not
RIGHTLY belong to me?
Do I have any habit that I should forsake?
Have I asked God’s help?
Is there jealousy in my heart?
Do I have sinful pride in my heart?
Have I wronged anyone and failed to make restitution?
Can I keep a secret?
Is the reputation of another safe in my hands?
Have I been a tale-bearer or a gossip?
Have I hurt someone—or my church—by needless talk about someone’s faults?
Even if it was true—did I glorify my Lord by telling it?
Did I pray for those involved?
Is my mind HONEST and CLEAN in the sight of God?
Are my thoughts PURE?
Am I faithful to my wedding vows—in DEED? in THOUGHT?
Is my home a testimony for Jesus?
Am I willing and ready to forgive any wrong against me or against my family?
Do I have any SECRET SIN that I excuse, but should forsake?
Have I forgiven those who have talked about me?
Those who have talked about my loved ones?
Do I have a right attitude toward my fellow church members?
Do I have a right attitude toward leaders in the church?
Does my pastor KNOW that he can count on me?
Did I meet every situation today as a Christian should?
Have I honestly tried to be a good witness for Christ today?
Have I worried or been over-anxious about things over which I have no control?
Did I fret?
Did I complain?
Was I guilty of the sin of unbelief?
Do I believe in the power of God to:
· Cleanse ANY sinner?
· Change ANY life?
· Take care of ANY situation?
· Guide ME in my decisions?

REMEMBER NOW THE MARVELOUS GRACE OF GOD…

AND THANK HIM FOR FORGIVING YOU

Thank you for that. I think Im going to print that out. The one about are you WILLING to let God put the sin out of your heart. That is a tough one.
One of my bible study friends said she was brave enough to ask God to show her her sins and how she needs to fix it. That can really be a scary thought because are we wWILLING to go through whatever pain that may cause us(Physical or mental).
I have done this once, but thankfully God is showing me gradually PHEW Im sure it is because He knows I cant handle the change all at once. God is merciful.

Thank you God

 

[ncgolf]

Just to clarify, we are not expecting the forgiveness granted us by man to cleanse us of the sin, even if someone we have wronged does not extend forgiveness to us in the face of a truly contrite confession.

By man I am assuming you mean all except those granted the authority to forgive sins. A person’s seeking of forgiveness from another shows that one is truly sorrowful for having committed the wrong. I agree there is no forgiveness of the sin … and actually it begins to put the burden on the other. We are granted God’s mercy only to the degree that we grant it to others. Read the Lord’s prayer. A person who cannot forgive others wrongs against them yet demands God’s mercy surely does not understand what God wants. We are to be as merciful as the Father above. This forgiveness thing is a two sided coin on one is the seeking of forgiveness and on the other is the giving of forgiveness as God gives it.

We depend on God to know our heart and forgive our sin. There is a drastic difference between the power Catholicism ascribes to a priest to forgive and give absolution and the forgiveness extended by our fellow man for a wrong we have committed againt him/her.

Aha … yes that is a huge difference because the priest absolves the way Christ absolved … forgiving sin not committed against them. When I go to confession I may not even know the priest and most likely never sinned against him personally. He has nothing to forgive me for where I have harmed him. Yet he does have the power to forgive me of all sins committed against others … which really means against others and God. All sin harms at least 2 people (Christ and whomever I harmed).

 

[ncgolf]

I am certain that all of my sins, past, present, and future were forgiven the very moment I placed my faith In Jesus Christ alone for my salvation.
Rom 4:7-8

7 **"BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN,
AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. **8 “BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”
NASU

Eph 4:32
32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.
NASU

Col 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
NASU

1 John 2:12

12 I am writing to you, little children, **because your sins have been forgiven you **for His name’s sake.
NASU

I agree that Jesus Christ, alone, took the burden of sin from us … that is true and is a truly marvelous and life giving gift but I do not agree on how Jesus told us to request His mercy.

Hear me out …

Gen 2:7 God blew into Adam’s nostril and gave him life.
Acts 2:2:4 Tongues of fire appeared and the apostles were given the gift of tongues.

In both of these tremendous gifts were given by God, life to Adam and the abilty to proclaim in any language in the other. When God appears and touches man … a powerful event happens, something beyond the ordinary, it is something significant. God’s breathe on Adam signifies a tremendous event. The visible appearance of the Holy Spirit signifies a tremendous event.

John 20:22-23 Jesus breathes on them and tells them, “Receive the Holy Spirit, whose sins you forgive are forgiven, whose sins you retain are retained.” What tremendous gift was given here? Is the breathe of Christ not as significant as the others I have cited? Some say it was a preaching message but look at these passages, Mark 16:15, Matthew 16:19 . These are specific commands to preach the Gospel … Jesus commissions them but not with the significance of that short John verse.

I have offered no dogma here, though I can see and read that something special happened in John 20. It is up to us to understand what special event happened. I do not believe it was the preaching mission, that is covered by other passages where Jesus does not breathe on them.

If you think the event was not as significant as I make it out to be then why?

 

[chutton]

By man I am assuming you mean all except those granted the authority to forgive sins. A person’s seeking of forgiveness from another shows that one is truly sorrowful for having committed the wrong.

I am in complete agreement. We’re saying the same thing here. I was just simply clarifying the difference as I wasn’t sure if Dessert was thinking we were lumping the two different forms of forgiveness together. Whether or not the person I’ve wronged accepts my appology does not affect God’s forgiveness of me…at that point it is between person and God. We each answer for our own actions.

Aha … yes that is a huge difference because the priest absolves the way Christ absolved … forgiving sin not committed against them. When I go to confession I may not even know the priest and most likely never sinned against him personally. He has nothing to forgive me for where I have harmed him. Yet he does have the power to forgive me of all sins committed against others … which really means against others and God. All sin harms at least 2 people (Christ and whomever I harmed).

My point exactly. There is a big difference. And that is why we are having this whole discussion!

 

[Lampo]

Funny you should ask that because that has happened to me. I then go to God because that is all I can do at that point.

 

[Lampo]

Funny you should ask that because that has happened to me. I then go to God because that is all I can do at that point.

What if someone commits murder and the victim dies instantly? God knew things like this would happen. Why would He expect you to only confess to the person you just killed(wronged)? How COULD you do that? How would you “confess your sins to one another” in this instance? Scripture doesn’t say, “confess your sins to one another except in certain circumstances…” See what I’m getting at? If God meant you only needed to confess to him without going through a priest, he wouldn’t have said, “confess your sins to one another.”

 

[dessert]

Just to clarify, we are not expecting the forgiveness granted us by man to cleanse us of the sin, even if someone we have wronged does not extend forgiveness to us in the face of a truly contrite confession. We depend on God to know our heart and forgive our sin. There is a drastic difference between the power Catholicism ascribes to a priest to forgive and give absolution and the forgiveness extended by our fellow man for a wrong we have committed againt him/her.

The power is not in your sense a great and mighty POWER it is an authority vested and handed down in apostolic succession. Dessert