Protestants, how can this be possible?

[Seeker100]

Then how is it that we have Protestants who don’t believe in the Trinity, Protestants who worship on Saturdays instead of on Sundays, Protestants who deny that Mary is the Mother of God, Protestants who say that the Eucharist is only a symbol, or that baptism is only for adults?

Is the Holy Spirit a spirit of confusion and contradiction? But if they were all hearing the Holy Spirit, then they would all believe the same things.

Even atheists can seek the good for those they don’t like very well - which is what it means to love our neighbors. The call to love our neighbor as ourselves is a universal command to all of humanity; it is not distinct to Christians only. (In fact, every form of religion has some form of this commandment among its basic precepts - even the Hindus say, “Do as ye would be done by.”)

You are correct. There are massive differences between different Protestant denominations. Some things that are taught are not true. If one follows the Holy Spirit one will see these false things. Other things are just difference of opinion and really don’t matter. Besides religious things, there are many areas of life, where people have different views on things. People can have totally different views on certain things and still be coming from God. Each area of life has so many factors and we being human only see a few. Thus when we make our decisions with the Holy Spirit it is within the limited knowledge that we know as it is limited as well with other people.
The new testimate talks of early Christians going to court against each other over disputes. If these people were true, and they probably where, they each had the Holy Spirit with them, but nonetheless they were still in dispute with someone else with the Holy Spirit.
People can be on opposite sides of an issure and still be following God. Our unity is not in little things, it is on the main thing; love and respect. When one loves one has the Holy Spirit. The person that loves may have different views than you on what car to buy, what church to go to etc but still that person loves. When we all love we have unity in the Kingdom nomatter what our differeing views are, religious or otherwise.

Athiests can be nice to people. Athiests can be nice to people they don’t like. An Athiest however cannot love without God as God is love. If an Athiest loves for 1 second in that second the athiest is not an athiest as for that one second he or she believed in God.
About other religions loving; of course when people from other religions love, they have God too. It is not just Christians that have God. They have God too when they love. It does not matter what people call themselves; God sees the heart.

Christianity however has a big difference from other religions. It has the light of the world. The light has come into the world. This is not flowery language, it is the truth. Jesus is the light. To complete our love for God we as Christians can love by doing things consciencely for Jesus. Thus we become servants of Jesus in others. Non-Christians when they love do things for Jesus too but they don’t know it. Thus the bible passages where the people say when did we feed you etc must be non-christians being judged. Thus I lots of non-Christians must be going to heaven as they were serving Christ.

As Christians we have a great gift in our service to God. We have God come in to our world. We can now serve God in each person we meet by doing our work to Jesus. This is life. This is eternal life and is the gift that God first gave to the Jews and now to the rest of the world. He who wants to drink, let him drink!!!

 

[Seeker100]

maybe it is not us who decides what is good before God but it is God who decides what is good before His eyes.

REV.
18 "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: The words of the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 "I know your works, your love and faith and service and patient endurance, and that your latter works exceed the first. 20 But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess and is teaching and beguiling my servants to practice immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. 21 I gave her time to repent, but she refuses to repent of her immorality.

i am not saying you eat meat sacrificed to idols. i am just point out to you an example of how one can think they are doing good but yet not pleasing to God at all.

I agree, God decides what is right and what is not. True morality is set by God not man. We as humans can know what God thinks of our behaviour by following God in our hearts. God tells our heart what is right and what is wrong. He tells us in our heart if He is happy with what we are doing or not. Our light within either leads us or condemns us.

 

[Seeker100]

do you know what it means to be one? explain please.

Unity of one is unity of love and respect. With that unity differing views on things are not so important.

 

[Seeker100]

so, you dont care who teaches what about Christ, am i right? have you ever read about the Great Heresies? perhaps you should. it will give you some perspective on what they tought back in those days and who was fighting to keep the True Teachings of our Lord.

You are right. Some teachings are false. We have to follow God to understand what is false teaching and what is not.

 

[luke1_28]

In regards to the Eucharist:

God cared enough about us to descend and take on our flesh and blood. It is through God becoming sin and dying on a cross that sin was conquered. His life, death and resurrection taught us that to live like Christ is to die like Christ.

It would seem we have an obligation then. If God loved us so much to take on OUR real flesh and blood, all those who profess to be Christian need to love God so much as to take on HIS real flesh and blood.

For Christ said Himself after the discourse in John 6, that unless you eat His body and drink His blood you shall not have life within you. For as God-made-man died on a cross to save us, our obligation remains to receive His flesh and blood not only because within it is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, but also to seal the New Covenant. The New and Everlasting Covenant.

Man does not profit from the sacrifice of Christ without eating the Lamb just as the Israelites would never have profited from the sacrifice of a lamb without eating it. It was a directive of God the Father in the Old and Christ reverberated the directive in the New. It sealed the covenant in the Old Testament and since God changes not, it seals the covenant in the New Testament. The Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, must be consumed. There is only one Church through Apostolic Succession that man can receive the Eucharist. So come home to the Catholic Church, and get fed the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to His Supper.



God bless you all,
Luke1_28

 

[GottaGo12345678]

Either you don’t know what the Bible says, or you know more and according to yourself definately know better than God. Which is it. God wants you to obey His word?

Mt. 26:26-28, Mk. 14:22-24, Lk.22:19-24, John 6:52 - 67 and St. Paul 1 Cor. 11:23-28. It’s in Gods Word by five different authors! And you can still ignore it.

*Gen. 1: 28: "And God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.”/*COLOR]

Gen. 9: 3 "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything. Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood."

Exo. 16: "And Moses said, "When the LORD gives you in the evening flesh to eat and in the morning bread to the full, because the LORD has heard your murmurings which you murmur against him–what are we? Your murmurings are not against us but against the LORD."

Here is how Protestant Matt. Henry explains it "Gen. 9 v.3. A grant of maintenance and subsistence: Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you, v. 3. Hitherto, most think, man had been confined to feed only upon the products of the earth, fruits, herbs, and roots, and all sorts of corn and milk; so was the first grant, ch. 1:29. But the flood having perhaps washed away much of the virtue of the earth, and so rendered its fruits less pleasing and less nourishing, God now enlarged the grant, and allowed man to eat flesh, which perhaps man himself never thought of, till now that God directed him to it, nor had any more desire to than a sheep has to suck blood like a wolf. But now man is allowed to feed upon flesh, as freely and safely as upon the green herb. Now here see, (1.) That God is a good master, and provides, not only that we may live, but that we may live comfortably, in his service; not for necessity only, but for delight."

Because like you they heard but did not comprehend that Christ was talking about His after death RISEN and GLORIFIED BODY. That is why Jesus then asked His Apostles in v. 62 “do you wish to leave me also?” He did try to win the mistaken back!

[Cannibalism is mentioned several times in Scripture ( Deuteronomy 28:53-57, Leviticus 26:29, 2 Kings 6:28-29, Ezekiel 5:10, Lamentations 2:20, 4:10, & Jeremiah 19:9 ). None of these passages condone it.]

***Nor do Catholics or the CC.:***thumbsup:

CCC ***1413 By the consecration the transubstantiation of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ is brought about. Under the consecrated species of bread and wine Christ himself, living and glorious, is present in a true, real, and substantial manner: his Body and his Blood, with his soul and his divinity ***(cf. Council of Trent: DS 1640; 1651).

Oh, I don’t know? Perhaps no more than those to don’t take God at His word?

Good try. But no sale. God can do anything Good, and receiving Chrsit in Holy Communion is the greatest good on planet earth.

Love and prayers,

Or you are like them and turn in unbelief; just not in the same way. From a fallen human perspective; does it make an ounce of sense to eat a person? Nope. How much more from a perfect perspective? He made us in His image; perhaps you either do not see Him or you see Him as a cannibal? I’m guessing the former.

Pretty weak rebuttal, but when you have to ride on the back of fallen humans rather than the Holy Spirit, then a veil remains and can only be lifted from the Son; it won’t happen by imagination of eating a stale wafer and some wine or grape juice.

 

[GottaGo12345678]

In regards to the Eucharist:

God cared enough about us to descend and take on our flesh and blood. It is through God becoming sin and dying on a cross that sin was conquered. His life, death and resurrection taught us that to live like Christ is to die like Christ.

It would seem we have an obligation then. If God loved us so much to take on OUR real flesh and blood, all those who profess to be Christian need to love God so much as to take on HIS real flesh and blood.

For Christ said Himself after the discourse in John 6, that unless you eat His body and drink His blood you shall not have life within you. For as God-made-man died on a cross to save us, our obligation remains to receive His flesh and blood not only because within it is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, but also to seal the New Covenant. The New and Everlasting Covenant.

Man does not profit from the sacrifice of Christ without eating the Lamb just as the Israelites would never have profited from the sacrifice of a lamb without eating it. It was a directive of God the Father in the Old and Christ reverberated the directive in the New. It sealed the covenant in the Old Testament and since God changes not, it seals the covenant in the New Testament. The Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, must be consumed. There is only one Church through Apostolic Succession that man can receive the Eucharist. So come home to the Catholic Church, and get fed the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are those who are called to His Supper.



God bless you all,
Luke1_28

That is a new spin; however God bore our sin, which is in our nature (spiritual) and manifested through our flesh; likewise He gave his flesh and blood to reconcile our sin nature to Himself-get it? In return, He commanded us to remember the shedding of His flesh and blood. Nothing more; otherwise God is a cannibal god. Remove the veil.

 

[JRKH]

That is a new spin; however God bore our sin, which is in our nature (spiritual) and manifested through our flesh; likewise He gave his flesh and blood to reconcile our sin nature to Himself-get it? In return, He commanded us to remember the shedding of His flesh and blood. Nothing more; otherwise God is a cannibal god. Remove the veil.

And here, in the Bolded and underlined statement above is one of the problems with Protestantism. The Idea presented in the referenced post is, in fact, not a NEW Idea AT ALL, but rather it is the ancient idea, understood and accepted by the early Church and reflected in the writngs of the Early Church Fathers including St Paul.

It is the “Symbolic” view that is the “NEW” Idea.

Peace
James

 

[StevieD]

Some Catholics believe in birth control, some don’t (even though the church teaches that it is wrong.)

Some Catholics are pro-choice, some are not. (even though it is not condoned by Rome)
Some Catholics don’t believe in the Real Presence, others do (even though the Church teaches it)
Some Catholics believe that your are saved by faith alone, others do not.

We know exactly what the Catholic Church teaches from the catechism. Of course some people who call themselves Catholics will dissent - so they are not Catholics at all. Your point has nothing to do with the one I made.

 

[StevieD]

Follow Yeshua;5686204:

I believe that there are many denominations of “Bible Believing Christianity” because we cannot agree on all doctrines. And that is the truth. Their is nothing to hide there or to be ashamed of.

As for me, I cannot find a Christian Church here in Phoenix that

1. Worships on the Seventh Day
2. Acknowledges that Yeshua is God
3. That doesn’t speak in tongues that can’t be interpreted
4. That doesn’t have a high priest or prophet that everybody bears testimony to other then Yeshua
5. That doesn’t have a big steeple piercing the sky (I know I’m a weirdo)
6. That preaches meat and not milk
7. That doesn’t preach prosperity.

I’m lonesome! lol

Why not start your own ‘church’, tens of thousands of others have done so. Or you could accept the authority of the Catholic Church. Plenty of unpopular ‘meat’, preaches that suffering has meaning and prosperity can be an obstacle and a cross - sorry about the rest of your points - can’t help.

 

[luke1_28]

That is a new spin; however God bore our sin, which is in our nature (spiritual) and manifested through our flesh; likewise He gave his flesh and blood to reconcile our sin nature to Himself-get it? In return, He commanded us to remember the shedding of His flesh and blood. Nothing more; otherwise God is a cannibal god. Remove the veil.

It takes the eyes of faith to see the gift God gives us in the Eucharist. You are the one that needs to remove the veil. The Jews of John 6 didn’t have the eyes of faith in their day, “How can this man give us his flesh and blood?”. Sadly, neither do some Catholics and most all Protestants. Just as the Jews of John 6, they eat unworthily or they walk away.

It is not a new spin at all when you consider that Jesus Himself gave us the directive. Although He does make all things new.

God bless,
luke1_28

 

[PJM]

=Gottle of Geer;5691917]## Short answer: many many many reasons. Some are established, or were: the Church **of **Scotland is the established Church of that country; so the Anglican Church in Scotland is not called the Church of, but the Church in, Scotland. In England, the established religion is that of the Church of England.

1. Many groups have different names from others, but are in full communion with them. The Anglican Church in Spain has a different name from that in Fiji or Scotland - but they are all member-Churches of the Anglican Communion. The Episcopalian Church **in **Scotland is not the same body as the Church **of **Scotland, which is Presbyterian.
2. The Roman understanding of Church unity cannot be applied without further ado to all other Church structures: so it does not follow that because all Catholics must be in communion with Rome, all Anglicans must be in communion with Canterbury. To be Anglican and not in communion with Canterbury may be a pity - it is not a contradiction (whether an onlooker thinks it should be, is beside the point).

So counting up bodies called “Church of X” or “Church in Y” is a very unreliable index to how many Churches there are. It ignores far too much, & takes far too much for granted.

Churches have more important things to do than vilify Rome all the time. Why is it so difficult to realise this ? Do Catholics spend their days making Acts of Hate towards Protestant or Orthodox Churches ? Of course not Then why the idea that other Churches order their lives by doing so towards the CC ?

To quote Abp. Sheen: “The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and a lie is still a lie, even if everybody believes it.”​

That figure of 30,000 may not be a lie - the word “lie” implies an intent to deceive - but it is false. And it is a sin to repeat as true what is not true; & it is a sin to repeat as true what one strongly suspects may not be true.

***Michael,

Thanks so much for your imput. I now have a slighly better understanding. {I’m a slow learner.] However, your post does little to dispel my confusion among Protestant churches and the seemingly arbrtiary personal interpation of Gods Holy [OBEJECTIVE… NOT SUBJECTIVE] Word. Surely He did not intend something for Catholics and somehing that apposses it for those who are not:shrug:

Love and prayers,

Pat***

 

[Bill_Pick]

Just because someone has never read the CCC doesn’t make him a heretic. After all, prior to 1994, 100% of Catholics had never read it - it wasn’t out, yet.

And again, a Catholic who disagrees with the teachings of the Catholic Church knows that he is disagreeing with God. A Protestant has no way of knowing which teachings are from God, and which ones are not, because whatever he wants to believe, there is a Protestant authority out there somewhere who teaches it, and says that it comes from God. The Protestant has no way of discerning whether he is actually following God, or just his own personal opinions, because there is no definitive authority who can say, “No, this is wrong” - all he has is myriad competing authorities, all teaching different things, and all claiming to be true teachers.

Will you please give your info for this statement ?

 

[PJM]

Originally Posted by GottaGo12345678
That is a new spin; however God bore our sin, which is in our nature (spiritual) and manifested through our flesh; likewise He gave his flesh and blood to reconcile our sin nature to Himself-get it? In return, He commanded us to remember the shedding of His flesh and blood. Nothing more; otherwise God is a cannibal god. Remove the veil.

***So friend you can see the air you breath?

You can quantify for us your mind, intellect and freewill? Yet you know they exist?

You can see the “Billions” of stars and planets?*** yet you know they exist?

Yet you belief all these things, BUT NOT the very word of God

How sad that is

Love and prayers,

 

[Libertarian_FL]

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

John 10:9 “I am the gate (door); whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.”

I will use these two scripture passages for simple reference. Note KEYS in 16:19 is plural as in multiple keys. Joh 10:9 is DOOR as in singular as He is the one way to salvation.

Assuming Jesus was perfect and God, could not make deceptive statements and the passages are properly quoted then He knew exactly what He was saying here. Simply there are many keys to enter the kindgdom of Heaven through Jesus. The Roman Catholic Faith is ONE of them and other sects are others. Its perfectly acceptable.

 

[StevieD]

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

John 10:9 “I am the gate (door); whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.”

I will use these two scripture passages for simple reference. Note KEYS in 16:19 is plural as in multiple keys. Joh 10:9 is DOOR as in singular as He is the one way to salvation.

Assuming Jesus was perfect and God, could not make deceptive statements and the passages are properly quoted then He knew exactly what He was saying here. Simply there are many keys to enter the kindgdom of Heaven through Jesus. The Roman Catholic Faith is ONE of them and other sects are others. Its perfectly acceptable.

The Church founded by Christ is NOT a “sect”, My front door has several locks and three keys. He told Peter that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church (singular),

 

[Joe_Brown]

Now you see how terrible the reformation was? Look what it dd. It created the divisions.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Some Catholics believe in birth control, some don’t (even though the church teaches that it is wrong.)

Some Catholics are pro-choice, some are not. (even though it is not condoned by Rome)
Some Catholics don’t believe in the Real Presence, others do (even though the Church teaches it)
Some Catholics believe that your are saved by faith alone, others do not.

Justy,

yes, this is true. However, the important thing to note is that the Catholic church claims that it has authority and it claims a specific doctrine. Catholics who don’t follow it are considered to be dissenters. Dissenters can argue against the church teaching but the point is that there is something to argue against. Tradition plays an important role in the Catholic church, which makes it impossible to bend the official teaching in order to suit particular social contexts or personal wishes.

Protestantism, and especially Anglicanism, do not have such understanding of authority and doctrine. Anglicanism does not believe that it is even possible to have some kind of objective position. Of course people can then believe whatever they want because there is nothing more than personal opinion that serves as the basis of their church teaching.

For that reason it does not make sense to compare dissenting Catholics to what is fundamental to Protestant theology IMO.

 

[PRmerger]

Actually, the count is over 40,000 now. (See text at bottom of page to note the total count for today. )

Short answer: many many many reasons. Some are established, or were: the Church **of **Scotland is the established Church of that country; so the Anglican Church in Scotland is not called the Church of, but the Church in, Scotland. In England, the established religion is that of the Church of England.​

1. Many groups have different names from others, but are in full communion with them. The Anglican Church in Spain has a different name from that in Fiji or Scotland - but they are all member-Churches of the Anglican Communion. The Episcopalian Church **in **Scotland is not the same body as the Church **of **Scotland, which is Presbyterian.

This accounts for only a few overlaps which “artifically inflate” the denomination count. Perhaps the Episcopal Church in England is fully in communion with the Episcopal Church in Angola, but the **majority **of denominations listed are independent and have doctrinal disputes with all other denominations of similar names. (And, I agree that the list cited above also includes “238 “Roman Catholic” denominations (for exactly 238 countries), i.e. one Catholic Church for each country”, which will also artifically inflate the count. However, this inflates the numbers minutely.)

 

[jmcrae]

You are correct. There are massive differences between different Protestant denominations. Some things that are taught are not true. If one follows the Holy Spirit one will see these false things. Other things are just difference of opinion and really don’t matter. Besides religious things, there are many areas of life, where people have different views on things. People can have totally different views on certain things and still be coming from God. Each area of life has so many factors and we being human only see a few. Thus when we make our decisions with the Holy Spirit it is within the limited knowledge that we know as it is limited as well with other people.
The new testimate talks of early Christians going to court against each other over disputes.

Are you assuming that all of the disputes were over trivial matters?

If these people were true, and they probably where, they each had the Holy Spirit with them, but nonetheless they were still in dispute with someone else with the Holy Spirit.
People can be on opposite sides of an issure and still be following God.

They can’t both be correct, though. One of them does not have the truth, and the whole point of St. Paul telling them to get the Church coming in and solving the dispute for them was so that both of them would have the opportunity to have the truth of Jesus Christ, and to know with certainty what Jesus wants them to believe. The early Church had no concept of “agree to disagree” - they ruled on all these things, and made definitive statements that all Christians are supposed to believe in and abide by. To not do so, is to make an exit out from under the umbrella called “Christianity,” to become something that is not quite Christian, any more, though it bears a striking resemblance.