Protestants: How do you determine which denomination holds the truth?

[spina1953]

Hi daddyd: Anyone can quote Scripture verses out of context to try and prove a point and taking a verse out of context also leads to one making the verse fit the idea already conceived by the thinker. In order to try and fully understand a particular verse one needs to read it in its full context with what the inspired author was conveying and the intended meaning he wanted his audience to know and understand.

            It would be no different than if someone took a sentence out of any book and interpret it from what the author wanted as by doing it that way or in that manor one losses sight off what the author was saying. Or one can look at a painting and say it means this or that and have an interpretation of what the painting means or what it is saying quite different than what the artist originally intended. So, it is that way with Scriptures. if one takes a verse out of context and then tries to interpret it separate from that rest of what the author was saying the meaning then get rather lost. it is one of the reasons why we need the CC to help us to understand what Scripture is saying and what it means that the authors intended it to say and mean.

I am betting that when the Gospels were written, there were those who asked questions as to what any particular verses said and was meant by the author who wrote them and the authors of the Gospels explained it I am sure it was that way with Paul’s Epistles he wrote, in that many asked him to explain certain passages or verses or sentences to that they better understood what he was saying and meaning that he intended it to say and mean.

Since Jesus commanded the Apostles to go out and preach and teach the Good News, He did not say to them write a book that anyone can take and understand easily, Those who wrote did so because they could not be everywhere all the time, and also because many asked them( Apostles who did write) to put down what they knew about Jesus and His life and what He taught and did. None of the writers of both the OT and the NT thought themselves inspired or thought that what they did write would be put into a one volume book with nothing else needed for someone to be saved. So in the end those who believe in Sola Scriptura is all they need does not make any sense, since those who heard the Apostles preach and teach did not have a NT to look to in order to make sure that what they were preaching and teaching was correct or not.

 

[guanophore]

This was not meant as disrespectful but instead to point out a frame of reference that exists in much of Protestantism that is different than Catholicism. Yes I chose to be Catholic. But I chose it based on it’s authority, not based on how well it fit my personal view on doctrinal things.

My doctrinal beliefs changed once I submitted to that authority. In much of Protestantism, the church is chosen based on how it lines up doctrinally on what an individual believes. This I saw in JohnNC’s mentioning of communions he would consider or not.

Yes, you are right, as a fallen away Catholic, I did the same search - looking 20 years for a Church that fit my beliefs. It is a popular paradigm.

In this case, though, I think that JonNC conforms his faith to the Augsburg Confession, and it’s Apology, and the small Catechism. There foundational documents of the Lutheran faith were chosen specifically to define a set of beliefs that did not include most of what Luther wrote.

I guess we can agree to disagree then.

Lutheranism would not exist without Luther. I believe that is historical.

No, we are not in disagreement here. You are right that the entire Reformation rests, to some extent, on the work of Luther. However, Lutheranism would not exist even more so without Catholicism, the creeds, the Sacraments, the Sacred Tradition that was retained. There is more Catholicism in Lutheranism than there is Luther.

That they believe they are a continuation of the western church does not make it so.  In fact I would say to claim it as true is to claim Catholicism as a departure from the western church.

Yes, I think that this is the other side of the same coin. Lutherans believed that the “Papists” had diverted from the One Faith, and that they were reclaiming it. If you and I had lived in Luther’s day and age, we might look at the corruption of European clerics and ourselves become Lutheran!

I will not deny that they are Christian Brothers, but I am not understanding your defensiveness in place of the Lutherans.

There has been an inordinate degree of Lutheran bashing present at CAF in recent months, and people I care about have been wounded by it. I hope my defensiveness has not offended you.

Well I am the OP, and I was looking to have discussion on church authority.

Ahh. Ok. I may have misunderstood this because, in my sojourn amongst our separated brethren, I did not find most of the denominations consider themselves “authorative”. Just the Scriptures, and if one did not think they were interpreted right, they moved to another denomination.

Regardless, I have much respect for them but will continue to point out their error in rejecting the authority of the Bishop of Rome , and the Magesterium joined to him.

Is this always necessary? I would say that most Lutherans on CAF are well aware of our beliefs, and if they shared them, they would have already crossed the Tiber. How does continually pointing out how you believe others are wrong help them move closer? It seems to me there has got to be a better way of having productive dialogue.

Is not promoting the benefits of one’s faith more powerful that continually pointing of error in others?

 

[guanophore]

So, Is there something in that tradition that I need for salvation that is not found in the bible?

Catholics believe that everything Jesus did and taught, as well as the Scriptures He used, are part of His salvation plan for us. That is not to say that one cannot gain heaven using the readers digest version - nothing is impossible with God.

Why do I need to do that?

It would be a good way to demonstrate that you are actually at CAF in order to have some meaningful dialogue about faith. You are right, if you are not here for that, there is no reason for you to have any concern about the canon of the Scripture.

John14:
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It’s commandments (plural) guanophore. Those commandments are the ten commandments.

Oh! So none of the commandments given in the NT are included! I see.

What an interesting perspective. Fortunately the Apostles did not fall for this idea.

You keep them by doing what they say

Actually, I think you probably keep them by doing what you understand them to say. I am sure you are very sincere about your faith.

I have no problem identifying my church.

That is good. How would someone like me identify it? If I have something against you, where would I take my complaint?

By the way guanophore you never did answer my question. Is there anything in your sacred tradition that is essential for salvation, that I won’t find in the bible?

Of course. The Bible was never intended to be a complete compendium of the faith.

For Catholics salvation is more than a moment in time when one pledges faith in Christ.

I have all the information that I need for my salvation in my bible.

Thats great daddyd. I am still wondering why you are here at CAF.

The early church relied mainly on the teachings of Jesus Christ, which would be the New Testament.

Does your Bible say that it contains all the Teachings of Jesus in the NT?

Just for the record, I am looking for an mp3 of Paul’s teachings in the Temple of Tyrannus. If anyone knows where I can find these, I will pay premium!

 

[daddyd]

Hi daddyd: Yes, I get that. One should try to live as Christ taught that has been passed on by the Apostles through the CC as I see it. But how do you know that you understand want Scripture says and means? How does one know if it is really the Holy Spirit guiding one to the meaning of Scripture? There are of course parts of Scripture that can be easy to understand, but there is much of Scripture that is most difficult to understand what it is saying and what it means, and one has need as Scripture says to test the spirits to see if it is true or not since the evil one can appear brighter than light fooling one into believing that they know when one does not really know.

1 John 4 King James Version (KJV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

 

[SteveVH]

Catholics believe that everything Jesus did and taught, as well as the Scriptures He used, are part of His salvation plan for us. That is not to say that one cannot gain heaven using the readers digest version - nothing is impossible with God.

It would be a good way to demonstrate that you are actually at CAF in order to have some meaningful dialogue about faith. You are right, if you are not here for that, there is no reason for you to have any concern about the canon of the Scripture.

Oh! So none of the commandments given in the NT are included! I see.

What an interesting perspective. Fortunately the Apostles did not fall for this idea.

Actually, I think you probably keep them by doing what you understand them to say. I am sure you are very sincere about your faith.

That is good. How would someone like me identify it? If I have something against you, where would I take my complaint?

Of course. The Bible was never intended to be a complete compendium of the faith.

For Catholics salvation is more than a moment in time when one pledges faith in Christ.

Thats great daddyd. I am still wondering why you are here at CAF.

Does your Bible say that it contains all the Teachings of Jesus in the NT?

Just for the record, I am looking for an mp3 of Paul’s teachings in the Temple of Tyrannus. If anyone knows where I can find these, I will pay premium!

Yeah, me too. I always wanted to get my hands on that. I’d love to have the transcript of the conversation on the road to Emmaus as well. That had to be some Bible study, but apparently not important enough to include in the NT.

 

[spina1953]

1 John 4 King James Version (KJV)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I see that you are not going to answer any questions except by using Scripture verses that you pick and choose which does not say what you believe or how ;only what a particular Scripture says that you interpret it to mean. As Guanophore said if you are not willing to converse and listen to what many of the posters are saying then why are you on CAF? I am not sure what it is that you are seeking here.

 

[daddyd]

I do, but sadly there are many wrong interpretations of the Bible that do not lead to salvation. The Bible only leads to salvation if read the way the authors intended.

That author would be God the Holy Spirit

The church tells us what the authors intended.

The Spirit tells us what the authors intended.

1Cor.2
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Sounds to me that you are relying on what man reveals to you the things that can only be revealed to you by God.

It would seem that if we wanted to know what the authors intended, we would look at historical examples close to the time of Christ as opposed to fallible men acting in rebellion 1500 years after Christ.

The good news is we have tons of documents from the early church to help us see how the authors intended scripture to be interpreted. When I converted to the Catholic Church it was reading these works that showed how very Catholic the authors of the New Testament were.

We need to rely on the infilling of God’s Spirit to reveal the things of God.

1Cor.2
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[joe371]

That author would be God the Holy Spirit

The Spirit tells us what the authors intended.

The Spirit tells someone what the authors intended? Me, you, everyone, or the leaders of Jesus’ church, beginning with the apostles, who passed doctrinal truth onto their successors?

 

[Jon_S_1]

The Spirit tells us what the authors intended.

Said every one in every denomination, heresy, cult group etc everywhere.

Either the Holy Spirit tells everyone everywhere something different.

Or your wrong.

Since God is truth and there is one truth then I conclude you to be wrong.

 

[daddyd]

I am sure you believe you have answered the question. But really, all you have done is consistently assert that you believe you are interpreting the Scripture according to the Holy Spirit because of what you understand Scripture to be saying. This position does nothing to explain how others, equally sincere about their faith, can come up with an opposite conclusion. I think you can’t put it any better because you have never really thought about it.

That’s correct and for me the KJV works.

You have ignored most of the questions that have been addressed to you in this thread.

No I haven’t

Basically, ,then I guess you are saying that you really have no idea how the books got into your Bible, or how it was determined that they belong there. Someone has told you or you chose to believe that the KJV is the “inspired” by God version, and that it “works for you”.

I do have a KJV bible and yes I chose to believe that it is inspired by God and it does work for me.

From whence came it? Why does your Bible not have the same books used by the Apostles?
And which Apostle wrote that? Or did Jesus give you that list?
I thought you couldn’t get it wrong because the Holy Spirit is leading you?

Why is the bible I used of such a great concern to you guanophore?

The Church founded by Christ interprets the Scriptures according to the same faith that produced them. We read them through the lens of Sacred Tradition.

1Cor2
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Could you interpret this for me through that lens guanophore?

Since it seems to be of no concern to you that you are using a collection of Scriptures different than the one used by Jesus and His disciples, and that you are using a collection derived from a list that is not inspired,

I don’t know what list you are talking about? You don’t think that the KJV is inspired? You do realize that Jesus quoted from the old testament often. He never once quoted from any of the DC books.

it really does not seem that you have much respect for your Bible after all.

How do you get this from the argument above which is a complete fabrication?

 

[daddyd]

Said every one in every denomination, heresy, cult group etc everywhere.

Either the Holy Spirit tells everyone everywhere something different.

Or your wrong.

Since God is truth and there is one truth then I conclude you to be wrong.

So you don’t agree with this

1Cor.2
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[joe371]

So you don’t agree with this

1Cor.2
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Spirit tells someone what the authors intended? Does the Spirit tell me, you, everyone regardless of church affiliation, or the leaders of Jesus’ church, beginning with the apostles, who passed doctrinal truth onto their successors - the process of course, i.e. the transmission of truth from generation to generation, as per scripture, being guided by the Holy Spirit?

 

[guanophore]

Did you really think that I meant that the books talked? They do in a sense. They tell us what God actually said.

Most fundamentalists do take things very literally.

Yes, we believe the Scritures tell us what God actually said. The problem is that human beings must interpret everything that enters their senses. When we read, we perceive and understand what we read based upon our experience and education (or lack of it). So each person that reads may understand what is written a little differently. This is why there are as many interpretations of Scripture as there are belly buttons.

How do you get this from

Why would you say something like this guanophore? You obviously don’t know anything about what I believe about salvation. And actually my beliefs are gleaned directly from scripture.

I know what you have said. You have said that all you need to know about salvation is in the Scripture. You believe that is all you need. This is a pre-conceivved notion about salvation.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

I am certain that you believe you are being led by the Holy Spirit.

Convince me otherwise than what I've quoted above?

It is not the quotes that are the problem, but your preconceived notions about them. But that is no matter. You have everything you need already, and therefore, it would be imprudent to try to convince you otherwise. Instead I will pray that you are invincibly ignorant.

You seriously do not think that information about our salvation and how we are to obtain it should be a consideration?

Well of course we do! And we note that Jesus did not write us a book, but left us a Church, and entrusted to that Church the message of salvation. Therefore to ignore what has been passed down to us from the Apostles would be a danger to our souls.

The bible in my opinion…

Yes, and that is the crux of the matter!

The origin of the book is God. But suppose that I agree with you that it was written by the CC. Why would knowing that or not knowing that make it difficult to talk about it?

It would not have to make it difficult, but it often does. Most Bible Christians are not aware that the New Testament was written by Catholics, for Catholics, about the Catholic faith. They think that the CC “added” things to the Bible (well we did, really, 27 books to be exact) when in fact the NT is a reflection of the faith of the Church not the Source of it. Jesus is the Source of the Catholic faith. That faith is reflected in the NT because it was produced by those who possessed that faith. The scriptures are understood best when they are read and understood from the point of view of the faith that produced them.

Questioning my salvation again guanophore?

Romans8 …but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Actually I don’t think anyone on an internet forum is in a position to question the salvation of another. I am, however, questioning your epistomology. It seems that you believe you are saved because you believe you are led by the Spirit, and you believe you are led by the Spirit because you follow what you understand the NT to mean. Basically I think you are saying that you know you are saved because you believe the Bible says you are?

 

[Jon_S_1]

Guys. It really is time to stop feeding the troll. Please let’s just let him move elsewhere. He intends not to dialogue but instead prove his ignorance again and again.

Sadly, such people are not open to truth.

 

[spina1953]

Guys. It really is time to stop feeding the troll. Please let’s just let him move elsewhere. He intends not to dialogue but instead prove his ignorance again and again.

Sadly, such people are not open to truth.

Hi JonS: I have to agree with you on that point. Seems that he does not want to hear what posters have to say and the only response it to quote Scripture verses that he picked and choose to answer with.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Hi JonS: I have to agree with you on that point. Seems that he does not want to hear what posters have to say and the only response it to quote Scripture verses that he picked and choose to answer with.

Yes. And some of the scripture he posted even contradicted what he was saying…oops. Oh well. Pray and move on.

 

[rcwitness]

We are NOT left, as local communities, to just find the group of Christians who most closely align themselves with the Bible. We certainly have a responsibility to support our parish where we Commune, to follow Scripture, which within we are told…

Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you.

…We have one faith and one leadership of One Church in one mind. This is our duty, to serve the Lord in serving one another. A Church which most resembles the first believers, is one who devotes to Apostolic Teaching. This Apostolic Teaching is preserved and continued in every generation. That doesnt mean it puts aside the Apostolic foundation which is found in the Written Word of God, on the contrary, Sacred Tradition most accurately upholds and bolsters the Written Tradition of Scripture, for by it, the Church was given specific instructions during those times. We, nowin this generation and every generation since Jesus, have observed and been subject to a Bishop after the office of Peter.

“In those days, Peter stood up among the brothers…”

In these days, who stands up among the denominations and speaks on behalf of the brothers?

We have a duty to find a local Parish which upholds and is in good relations with the Church Universal. We have a duty to receive His Body and Blood in a worthy manner, which is following the Holy Spirit in all things.

Sacred Scripture has the highest authority in Church posession. Yet, the Magisterium has ultimate authority to bind its interpretation on the whole body. Nothing the Catholic Church Teaches contradicts Sacred Scripture.

Take up your cross and humbly serve in your local parish, without thinking you have a greater faith than the entire Deposit of faith.

 

[guanophore]

I don't. Men under the guidance of The Holy Spirit did that for us.

But these men were all elected by other men…? How can you know they were guided by the HS?

It’s the Word of God, and he keeps his promises.

Yes, we believe this too, but as you can see, our understanding of what the Scripture says is diametrically opposed to what you believe it says. We believe Jesus promised to guide His Church into “all truth” and that He would never leave or forsake her.

How do you as a Catholic determine that a man elected by other men has the final say so in all matters concerning your church, rather than what God says in The Bible

First, why would it be a problem if one person had “final say in all matters concerning the Church”? This in not really how the Church operates, but I am wondering why it would be a problem

Second, the Church Teaching cannot deviate from what is written in the Scriptures. Both the Holy Writing and the Sacred Tradition have the same Source, so they are always in agreement with one another. The Holy Spirit does not contradict Himself.

then excommunicate anyone that says he’s wrong based on scriptural evidence (e.g. Martin Luther)?

There was a recent thread on this that I think you may find informative, if you are really interested (I am still not convinced you are here to learn - you may just be a troll).

It is the duty of the Church to tell the members of the flock when they stray from the One Faith that was committed to the Church by the Apostles.
daddyd;12350741:

You don’t think that the bible shows us the way to salvation?

We believe that Christ is the way of salvation, and that He founded a Church, which is how He intended to show us the way of salvation. In the hands of the Church founded by Christ, Scripture is profitable in the formation of disciples.

It doesn’t have to have a chapter and verse it’s all through the bible. You don’t believe this?

What is “all through” is your preconceived notions of salvation. You approach the reading of SCripture with them, so they influence how you understand what you read. It is like reading through a certain color of sunglasses.

It's ok for everyone to use the version that they are comfortable with. Why is this such an offensive idea for you?

Because there are some that are a significant departure from the originals, and because most modern Protestant bibles are missing books. I find it offensive to take out or change the content of what has been handed down to us from the Apostles (the Septuagint).

Why would this make it an odd request?

You have claimed that you get your ideas about salvation from the Scripture, yet scripture does not reduce salvation to a “list of requirements”. In fact, the verse you yourself quoted is clear that salvation is found in the Person of Christ, not in the Bible, however Holy the writings may be.

What I am trying to get at is that if there is nothing in those books that leads us to Christ, why bother with them?

Oh, I agree. If you have every thing you need, why bother with the whole history of the Christian faith? Why bother coming to CAF at all?

No need to concern yourself about the origin of your Bible. No need to be concerned that your pre-conceived notions about salvation are a significant departure from what the Apostles believed and taught. Why bother with any of that?

 I believe that all the scriptures that Paul was talking about are contained in the KJV

As has been stated, a person choosing to believe something does not make that something true.

But I am glad it works for you. A broken clock is always right two times a day.

How is anything I have said a deviation from what the bible says?

The deviation lies in what you believe it says.

The bible.

So, you think that you can determine how the Holy Spirit is leading by following what you believe the Bible says. So if two faithful, well meaning persons come to opposite conclusions, what does it mean? One of them is not following the HS in their understanding of the Scripture? Then how do we tell which one has missed the mark?

That author would be God the Holy Spirit

The Spirit tells us what the authors intended.

The “we” referred to in this passage, to whom the revelation of God was given, is the Church - the disciples in unity with the Apostles. When an attempt is made to apply it to those who have departed from the Apostolic faith the principles can no longer be applied…

the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Sounds to me that you are relying on what man reveals to you the things that can only be revealed to you by God.

1Cor.2
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Let’s see if I have this right. If we do not understand the Scriptures the way you do, then we are in the flesh/darkness, and are not illumined by the HS?

 

[guanophore]

We need to rely on the infilling of God’s Spirit to reveal the things of God.

Without question. And this is the purpose for which He established the Church:

7 Of this gospel I was made a minister according to the gift of God’s grace which was given me by the working of his power. 8 To me, though I am the very least of all the saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, 9 and to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; 10** that through the church** the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places. 11 This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him. 13 So I ask you not to lose heart over what I am suffering for you, which is your glory. Eph 3:7–13

Yes, we need to be filled with the HS, and since the Church is filled with the HS, we will then be in agreement with the Teachings of Christ that have been preserved in her.

That’s correct and for me the KJV works.

I wonder why Jesus established a Church, instead of just writing the KJV in the first place? What on earth did Christians do for 1600 years before they had the KJV?

No I haven’t

Really? So, if you are not ignoring the questions that have been put to you, why are you not answering them??

do have a KJV bible and yes I chose to believe that it is inspired by God and it does work for me.

Basically, ,then I guess you are saying that you really have no idea how the books got into your Bible, or how it was determined that they belong there. Someone has told you or you chose to believe that the KJV is the “inspired” by God version, and that it “works for you”.

Why is the bible I used of such a great concern to you guanophore?

It is a testimony to your epistomology.

Could you interpret this for me through that lens guanophore?

Sure, but there is no need, of course, because you already have every thing you need in your own mind about the KJV.

Anything that might be suggested to you that is not consistent with you present perception/opinion of the Bible would just be disregarded as coming from someone who is not enlightened by the HS.

You have preconceived notions about what the concept of “salvation” is. You do not believe that you need the rest of the Deposit of Faith (which is not in your KJV) because it does not factor in your notion of salvation.

I don’t know what list you are talking about?

The list of books that belong in the NT. It is not found within the inspired texts themselves.

You don’t think that the KJV is inspired?

No. We only consider the original manuscripts inspired. In any case, your KJV does not include all of the originals used by the Church.

You do realize that Jesus quoted from the old testament often. He never once quoted from any of the DC books.

Well, we have already established that we read the words of Jesus differently, haven’t we? So we understand Jesus accepted the DC books as Scripture and quoted from them.

How do you get this from the argument above which is a complete fabrication?

It seems to me that, if a person really had respect for the Bible, they would be knowledgeable about it’s history and origins. Especially if one believed it were inspired by God, one would certainly be eager to know how those particular books came to be part of it, rather than some others.

 

[spina1953]

Yes. And some of the scripture he posted even contradicted what he was saying…oops. Oh well. Pray and move on.

Hi Jon S: Correct that some of the Scripture quotes Daddyd used did contradicted what he was I think trying to say. At this point I am not to sure he even knows what he is trying to say. So Like you its pray and move on.