Protestants: How Do You Know That Your Interpretation of the Bible is the Right one? Part II

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In regards to post#724, there is a difference between an “insulting inuendo” and an observation! When I see the pope or any other religious leader, dressed in ostentatious vestment, I wonder, why? If a man is supposed to be a symbol of humiity, why the need to dress up in brightly colored, and decorated clothing! Not to say that he needs to dress like a pauper, but God doesn’t look at the outside, He looks at the heart!
I think the bolded portion answers your question, 1beleevr! Why the “ostentatious” vestments worn by the Holy Father? It could be said that it really doesn’t matter if he’s ostentatious or not–it’s what’s in the heart of Pope Benedict that really matters.
 
prmerger: All right, someone finally got it! It is not how the outside of the cup looks, it’s the inside that God cares about most! So, if i don’t wear a suit and tie to church, I can still bring God my best:thumbsup:By the way, why does the pope wear the fancy robe; tradition, customs? Where did it start and why?
 
Or you could get stuck on personal pride, and remain catholic:eek:I hope what MDK said, isn’t true; that if you honestly seek the truth, or is it TRUTH(Jesus)myou will become Roman catholic:eek: And we hear the voice of our Shepherd, He speaks to me every day! And not all of us non-catholics celebrate he Sabbath on Saturday; I for one celebrate it on Sunday!👍
But what I said is true. Why do you lament the truth? If without limits, you seek the truth and the Truth, you will become Roman Catholic. Otherwise, one is fooling themselves in one way or another. It takes humility to truly be a Catholic. We don’t get to make up our own religion, and tell God what He said. Instead, we listen to what He said, and seek to be obedient.

I also promise you that no spirit of God will lead you against the teachings of the Catholic Church. The one you call shepherd is not Christ, as He will not lead you in opposition to the Holy Spirit. Neither will the Holy Spirit lead you against Christ and His Church.
 
prmerger: All right, someone finally got it! It is not how the outside of the cup looks, it’s the inside that God cares about most! So, if i don’t wear a suit and tie to church, I can still bring God my best:thumbsup:By the way, why does the pope wear the fancy robe; tradition, customs? Where did it start and why?
It’s simply arrogant to say that others haven’t already understood the importance of what’s inside. It’s also missing the point to think that your complaints about the pope’s attire are somehow merited.

Why do you criticize the outside of the cup, when the inside is doing well?

Speaking only of the inside of the cup… I promise you that God is infinitely more pleased with the Pope who teaches correctly and defends the Bride of Christ, than with one who teaches falsely and criticizes Christ’s teachings given through those whom He sent to continue His mission.

It would be missing the point to wear nice clothes for appearances, but the inside be “full of dead men’s bones.” However, it could certainly be disrespectful to have all in order inside, and come slovenly dressed to God’s house, wearing swimming suit and flip flops for instance, when you have the option to wear something more appropriate for God’s house. However, one who was right on the inside would likely do the appropriate thing on the outside as well.
 
prmerger: All right, someone finally got it! It is not how the outside of the cup looks, it’s the inside that God cares about most!
:confused: There’s people on this thread who have said that God cares mostly about what’s on the outside? Really?
By the way, why does the pope wear the fancy robe; tradition, customs? Where did it start and why?
Because he’s a head of state. Just like I want Obama to look “presidential”. I want Pope Benedict to look “popish”! 😉
 
Please consider and answer the other questions. It would be better if you posted the answers to us, because your “spirit guide” is misleading you, and bringing you into these false interpretations you speak of.
Is the written word equal to or does it encompass completely the Word of God made flesh?

It the Word of God spirit or flesh? The only way a man can truely understand the Word of God is if he has that spirit of truth in him which comes by way of salvation through Christ Jesus.
Are there things that Jesus said and did which His Apostles witnessed which are not recorded in the written word?
Certainly not all was recorded in the bible. Yet, if it was the will of the Lord it be used for doctrine, would he not include it in his Word?
Could the other things and explanations of meanings have been discussed and handed down from Apostle (Bishop) to others verbally with the protection of the Holy Spirit?
Why do you desire to negate the importance of what is written? Have you ever told a person something and this person tells a person and this person tells a person. How much do you suppose would be exactly what you said after being passed verbally from person to person?
Since there are so many different interpretations which conflict directly with each other, who is authorized to teach the word of God since they all can’t be right, even though almost all claim that they have the Holy Spirit?
Do you have authority from God to interpret His written word?
Is it not God who establishes kings and princes, presidents and czars?

You ask if I have the authority and I will answer this way.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Acts 5: 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

As for what I profess to, it is the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is not something new that was just created. It is Jesus Christ, the living Word of God.
[Will you please do us the favor of posting properly, and not putting your quote inside of mine. It does not belong there, and it therefore is a distortion of my quote. ]
Hope I did this correct for you.
 
Yet, if it was the will of the Lord it be used for doctrine, would he not include it in his Word?
How do you know this? Scripture does not tell you anything of the sort–that is, there is no verse in Scrpture that says that "all the things necessary for doctrine have been written down:
 
So, then, heiscoming, do you believe that the early Church Fathers’ writings would be a true representation of how the gospel of Jesus Christ was understood? Have you read their writings?
The majority of the writings were more of how the writer instituted them into his life and not so much as to be used as doctrine. In other words, the author would talk of what had already been written and comment on it. And also, alot of it was a history of current events in what was occurring in the church throughout the regions.

Do I accept something that one has written that is different then that which the apostles had established? Certainly not.

Do I accept things written that complement the written Word. Certainly.
 
How do you know this? Scripture does not tell you anything of the sort–that is, there is no verse in Scrpture that says that "all the things necessary for doctrine have been written down:
Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.

As I said before, when Jesus was tempted of the devil, how did he rebuke the devil? He quoted the Word of God. IT IS WRITTEN!!!
 
Is the written word equal to or does it encompass completely the Word of God made flesh?
Jesus is the Word of God. The written word is only part of the Deposit of Faith. Scripture *and *Tradition must be the sources of divine revelation.

Now praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you 1 Cor 11:12
Why do you desire to negate the importance of what is written?
On the contrary. The Catholic Church preserved and canonized the written Word–“the Church has always venerated the Scriptures as she venerates the Lord’s Body. She never ceases to present to the faithful the bread of life, taken from the one table of God’s Word and Christ’s Body.” CCC 103
Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Acts 5: 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
Amen!
 
Acts 5:38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
:confused:

What does this verse have to do with saying that all doctrine would be written down in Scripture?
As I said before, when Jesus was tempted of the devil, how did he rebuke the devil? He quoted the Word of God. IT IS WRITTEN!!!
Yes, He quoted the Old Testament. Does this mean that we should only accept the Scriptures that Jesus quoted?
 
It the Word of God spirit or flesh? The only way a man can truely understand the Word of God is if he has that spirit of truth in him which comes by way of salvation through Christ Jesus.
I do agree with this, the problem is that our perceptions of what the Spirit is saying are contingent upon our own experiences and education (or lack of it). that is why He promised the Church that He would guide them into all truth.
Code:
Yet, if it was the will of the Lord it be used for doctrine, would he not include it in his Word?
He did! It was in the part He commited the the Church. 😃
Why do you desire to negate the importance of what is written?
The fact that Catholics do not misuse the Holy Scriptures does not mean they are “negated”. They were never intended to exercise authority. That does not make htem unimportant. It is simply acknowleging that the exercise of authority requires intellect and will, qualities that the Sacred Writings do not.
Have you ever told a person something and this person tells a person and this person tells a person. How much do you suppose would be exactly what you said after being passed verbally from person to person?
Yes, of course, but in no case was the promise of the HS present to guard and keep what is said. God is able to preserve His word, whether it is oral, or in writing.
You ask if I have the authority and I will answer this way.

Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
Well, yes, but Peter received His authority from Christ…
Acts 5: 38 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39 But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
It is interesting, you seem to promote that you should be left alone in your ideas, yet you are here frequenting a Catholic forum. :confused:

Why might that be, I wonder?
As for what I profess to, it is the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is not something new that was just created. It is Jesus Christ, the living Word of God.
Actually, a significant amount of what you profess is quite new. It constitutes a “different gospel”, and has no foundation in what the Apostles believed and taught.
 
prmerger: All right, someone finally got it! It is not how the outside of the cup looks, it’s the inside that God cares about most! So, if i don’t wear a suit and tie to church, I can still bring God my best:thumbsup:By the way, why does the pope wear the fancy robe; tradition, customs? Where did it start and why?
It seems that you missed my post earlier when I addressed this issue of dress among catholics going to mass. I said at that time (forget which post) that people come to Church dressed in jeans all the time. In fact they come dressed even more casual than that.

And since your back on the Pope’s mode of dress, did you ever consider or investigate WHY they use this or that robe, what the significance of these garments might be? Or are you assuming this is how he dresses all the time?

Peace
James
 
To MDK. I know I’m responding to this late but it brought something to mind.

you said: In reality, there are very valid criticisms of Protestantism, because Protestant faith systems are made of men’s own interpretations that are not protected by God… and are often simply made from and/or sustained by men’s ignornace, pridefulness and/or arrogance.

In regards to the admonitions of the Church in Revelations. If your Church is protected by God as you say, what sort of teachings are being taught that Christ said needed to be repented of unless He returned and removed you from your place and fought you by the sword of His mouth?

If your church is protected from doctrinal error or dogmatic error, what then would you need to be repenting of? I’m seriously with great sincerity wondering about this in light of this scripture.

Thanks for any insight.
 
.If your Church is protected by God as you say, what sort of teachings are being taught that Christ said needed to be repented of unless He returned and removed you from your place and fought you by the sword of His mouth?
The teachings that are taught by so-called Catholics (including priests :eek:) that are contrary to God’s Word–such as: contraception is ok as long as your conscience tells you it’s ok, abortion is ok if you have a valid reason, premarital sex is ok as long as you love your partner, homosexual unions are ok as long as it’s within a loving monogamous relationship…etc etc etc!
 
prmerger: I believe that the crux of the discussion about whether or not Mary ever had"normal" sexual relations with her husband, revolves around, the catholics, by way of apostolic teaching, believing that Mary was born a virgin, and died a virgin, versus non-catholics, who believe that she had other children, after Jesus! Neither side can prove their theories, which means that we continue to embrace our positions, rendering both sides, neither totally wrong or totally right! The scriptures say that Mary was a virgin at the time of Jesus’s birth, and anyone with a lick of sense could deduce that she was avirgin before that! There is however, no evidence suggesting that she died a virgin, or was born “sinless”, since she was born of a woman, like the rest of us! When the scripture says, that Joseph did not have sexual relations with her until AFTER the baby was born, that’s what I believe; that’s it’s possible that they had relations sometime AFTER Jesus’s birth!
Hi 1beleevr,

I’m glad you realize that the bible doesn’t say that Mary and Joseph had relations. But I feel I ought to also point out that “no evidence suggesting that she died a virgin” is only your opinion – many of us believe that there is evidence, specifically Luke 1 and John 19. Also, the Council of Trent condemned the view that Mary wasn’t perpetually virgin, so we can’t really relegate this to “agree to disagree” status. (Granted, I was wrong about the other “condemnation” I referred to; but I’m pretty sure I’m not wrong about this one. :))
 
When I see the pope or any other religious leader, dressed in ostentatious vestment, I wonder, why? If a man is supposed to be a symbol of humility, why the need to dress up in brightly colored, and decorated clothing!
This cartoon is pretty off-topic, but noticed the contrast in clothing (particularly up-top).
Is it really that important, whether we dress formally, when in the presence of God? Was Moses, Abraham, or Jacob?
Funny you should mention Moses – didn’t he take off his sandals at the Burning Bush? In fact, wasn’t he told to do so? (Not unlike how modern men remove their hats when they are in church, as a sign of respect.)
 
Hi, guanophore: Some non-catholics, may view posts submitted on this forum, including yours as tantamount to condemnation(Romans 8:1. But because I am able to see you and others as "just another catholic, I am able to rise above feeling that way(I have the full armor of God on). Someone said that there was evidence that Mary died as a virgin in Luke 1& John 19, but I have not been able to find it! Nor have I been able to find concrete evidence anywhere that Joseph and Mary did or did not have sexual relationsAFTER the birth of the Christ child…And God did create someone without sin; His name is Jesus! I do believe in what the Apostles said, and taught:thumbsup:What I and many other non-catholics have trouble wrapping our minds around, is, that these teachings have been kept intact, without addition or subtraction by any church.And once more, when did the practice of baptizing babies begin and why? Was this something that started after the deaths of the apostles?:confused:
 
Hi, guanophore: Some non-catholics, may view posts submitted on this forum, including yours as tantamount to condemnation(Romans 8:1. But because I am able to see you and others as "just another catholic, I am able to rise above feeling that way(I have the full armor of God on). Someone said that there was evidence that Mary died as a virgin in Luke 1& John 19, but I have not been able to find it! **Nor have I been able to find concrete evidence anywhere that **Joseph and Mary did or did not have sexual relationsAFTER the birth of the Christ child…And God did create someone without sin; His name is Jesus!
I simply LOVE the highlighted section here.
You want CONCRETE evidence before you will accept the perpetual virginity.
It sounds so much like the Athiest’s argument for proof.
How about providing “CONCRETE evidence” that Jesus ever existed.
How about providing “CONCRETE Evidence” that Jesus, if he existed, rose from the dead.

Of course it must be “Concrete” in YOUR eyes.
How about providing “Concrete Evidence” that the Bible is the “Sole Rule of Faith”?
How about providing “Concrete Evidence” that the Bible Books, and ONLY the bible books are even really Inspired? (Hint such evidence cannot be contained in the bible for any book will be self supporting)

You deny the probability of the perpetual virginity because you find no “Concrete Evidence”, yet you also deny that “Concrete Evidence” is, in fact, concrete and call it sand instead,
In this I refer to the fact that Jesus uses the word Church only two times in the Gospels and in BOTH cases it is in connection with bestowing Authority on His Church leadership to Bind and Loose “WHATEVER”. Plus - in this same connection - He gave the Keys to the Kingdom to a specific person whom he named “Rock” and “Upon this Rock” He built His Church.
Of course in this, you say that “Church” doesn’t mean what we think it means and how petros/petra big rock little rock blah, blah, blah, and so on---- All the while trying to turn “Concrete” into sand.

The above is a bit of a rant, and for that I apologize, but look at how you are insisting that YOU get to decide what is and is not “Concrete Evidence”.
I do believe in what the Apostles said, and taught:thumbsup:What I and many other non-catholics have trouble wrapping our minds around, is, that these teachings have been kept intact, without addition or subtraction by any church.And once more, when did the practice of baptizing babies begin and why? Was this something that started after the deaths of the apostles?:confused:
In this I think we can only point to the very real and, yes very concrete, promises that Jesus Gave to the Apostles and through them to His Church. That the Holy Spirit would Guide them, that He would lead them into All Truth, The The Church has Authority to Bind and Loose “Whatever”, That Peter and his successors hold the Keys to the Kingdom and so on.
In this, we have the “Concrete Evidence” of Scripture, Sacred Tradition and Apostolic Succession.

Peace
James
 
Hi, guanophore: Some non-catholics, may view posts submitted on this forum, including yours as tantamount to condemnation(Romans 8:1.)
No Catholic on this forum will condemn you, 1beleevr, as it is against our religion to condemn anyone. :signofcross:
 
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