Protestants: how do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one?

[Gabriel_of_12]

2 Timothy 3:16

LOL…Yes there is not denying the scriptures are God breathed, I use this scripture in my speech. What I dont understand is why anyone would believed that God breathed the books of the bible into existance?

You see the New Testament were only seperated Letters in different communities by the apostles, many of these apostle letters did not make into the bible we have today; Who had the authority on earth to determine which new testament apostolic letter would make the God breathed bible canon? Answer Jesus gave this authority to the Apostles who handed on to their successors who are the Catholic Bishops and Popes. This is common knowledge, if we can get by this fact, maybe we can address the interpretation issue head on?

 

[josie_L]

Whatever dude, we would all have copies of the Gospels and Paul’s letters, just like everyone did WAY before canonization by the Catholic church.

All the early churches hung onto Pauls letters, shared then between churches, and people collected them together.

Look at Melito’s OT Cannon and Muratorain Fragment NT Cannon.

170AD - almost the entire Protestant Bible. This date is probably late also because the Muratorain Fragment says talks about the Gospels and Pauls letters and how they are Well known and Read often in the churches. That means they have been well know and read since around the time Paul delivered them to the churches originally. 2 Peter calls Pauls letter Scripture.

The Early church had Scripture before The Beloved John even died.

Yes, there were many “scriptures” in use by the early church, but who was to decide what was the inspired word of God and what wasn’t? The bible did not fall out of the sky.

 

[josie_L]

I dont blame you for wanting to quit when you are behind,
So God didnt seperate inspired literature from uninspired literature?
Of course it was He.
God breathed the bible into existence.
The bible didnt put itself together, God did. He could have used zebras to do it if He so chosed.

It is silly to see how your hatred of the Catholic Church has lead you to deliberately misinterpret my message, to the point of irrationality. May God forgive you your hatred.

 

[josie_L]

What you fail to acknowledge is that the bible is the work of God not of man.

Let’s get this point straight:

He inspired the human authors (this was not a dictation) of the sacred books (just has He inspired the CC to compile the Bible), as such we can say that God is the author of Sacred Scriptures as well as man.

A quote from the CCC:

“In composing the sacred books, God chose men and while employed by him they made use of their powers and abilities, so that with him acting in them and through them, they, as true authors, consigned to writing everything and only those things which he wanted.”

 

[Hisalone]

Whoa people! :slapfight:

It is difficult to wrap our heads around the fact that the bible existed in other forms before it is what we see today. As each word was written the bible was formed. The Catholic Church compiled it together but the message never changed in doing so.

The Catholic Church did not GIVE us the bible, God did… Shock and amazement in realizing this, I know - but it is true.

As to the OP, it is not my interpretation that I go by. If that was the case I would be the happiest little sinner out there doing my own thang and not thinking twice about it. But alas, it is not what my brain thinks but what God puts on my heart through the Holy Spirit.

That would be why there are so many churches out there… Because there are SOME who want to make it what THEY want it to be, not what God wants.

Just my 2 cents of course… You can continue the arguing if you would like…

 

[Hisalone]

I have not given you an interpretation of 2Ptr? As far as I can see nor has the Catholic church? I take it your claiming to have an infallible interpretation of scripture? When did you ever hear the Catholic church teaches infallibly from sacred scripture? is this a new invention from non catholics and protestants, these false assumptions need to cease. Can speak truthfully here?

Truthfully 2 Peter 1 is used constantly by Catholics to claim that nonCatholics cannot interpret scripture without the assistance of the RCC.

So what do you think about Jesus revealing “ALL” the scriptures to his disciples? The only Church today to possess these teachings is the Catholic church. So how is it that Protestants or non catholics pretend to interpret the teachings of Jesus when their faith did not exist yet for over another 1500 years?

Gabriel the reason scripture is so important to nonCatholics is that the RCC placed so little importance in it at the time of the Reformation.

 

[Hisalone]

Gabriel of 12:

Ok, can you prove God breathed the bible into existance? The Catholic church does not teach such a farse, please stop these false accusations or supply proof ok? The Catholic church teaches that the Scriptures she canonized are God breathed, but God did not breathe these books into existance, God through the Holy Spirit inspired man to record the voice of God in ink and paper.

Sure, the catholic church has canonized most of the Early Church Fathers, Martyrs, Popes, as Saints. Why do you continue to make such false accusations about the Catholic church. Please take a breath, relax and speak reasonable. I take it, this post has struck a chord with many non catholics here, let us reason these differences out.

I have stated my position using Jesus words of revealing “All” the scriptures to his disciples. Yet, Jesus words appear to be ignored. What is your interpretation or understanding of Jesus already revealed “ALL” the scriptures to the Catholic church. Why are you inventing new interpretations, are you wiser than Jesus?

Gabriel you are setting up a straw man.
Our claim is that scriptures do not belong to the RCC they were given to all the people of God.
We own no debt of graditude to the RCC for the scriptures because it was God who gave them to us. Not the RCC.

 

[Hisalone]

Gabriel of 12:

So am I to believe, that your teachers who ever they are, taught you how to interpret the scirptures giving them the authority from you to do so? OR is your scriptural content, suppose to prove to me, God has revealed these scriptures to you, and you can go out now and start a Church and begin proclaiming your “truth”?

Luke 24, states; Jesus revealed “ALL” the scriptures to his disciples who handed them down to the Catholic church today by both Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition. Tell me which Church father or successor to the apostles taught you scripture interpretation?

The scriptures given are really pretty straight foward. Why do you insist on twisting Luke 24 to suit your heresy? Jesus opened up the scriptures to His disciples to reveal Himself, not your man made institution.

 

[Hisalone]

The bible was still written BY MAN, INSPIRED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT! You act as if one day you woke up and poof! there it was sitting on a rock…nice dream but reality is that we owe our debts to the Catholic Monks for this.
Remember, before the invention of printing in 1450, the bible existed only in handwriting–what we call manuscript, which were made as early as the 4th century, and these copies, which you can see with your own eyes today, contain the books which the CATHOLIC BIBLE contains today, and that is how we know we are right in receiving these books as Scripture, as genuinely the work of the Apostles.

All Im saying is we owe God a debt for the bible, not the RCC.

 

[Hisalone]

Yes, there were many “scriptures” in use by the early church, but who was to decide what was the inspired word of God and what wasn’t? The bible did not fall out of the sky.

You believe it was men that put the bible together rather than God?

 

[josie_L]

Whoa people! :slapfight:

It is difficult to wrap our heads around the fact that the bible existed in other forms before it is what we see today. As each word was written the bible was formed. The Catholic Church compiled it together but the message never changed in doing so.

The Catholic Church did not GIVE us the bible, God did… Shock and amazement in realizing this, I know - but it is true.

As to the OP, it is not my interpretation that I go by. If that was the case I would be the happiest little sinner out there doing my own thang and not thinking twice about it. But alas, it is not what my brain thinks but what God puts on my heart through the Holy Spirit.

That would be why there are so many churches out there… Because there are SOME who want to make it what THEY want it to be, not what God wants.

Just my 2 cents of course… You can continue the arguing if you would like…

God used and led the Catholic Church to bring forth Sacred Scripture (the CC deciphered with the help of the Holy Spirit to recognize inspired scripture), so in that sense the CC did give you the Bible. Even Martin Luther admitted as much.

And what is your interpretation of the Bible? Are you alone in this interpretation of yours, or do you follow an already known interpretation, as per your denomination?

You are right in saying that the Holy Spirit guides you, but the Holy Spirit guides me too, who is to say you have it right or that I do?

The answers you provide are too pat/trite and not deep enough to grasp the reality of the current protestant/christian situation.

 

[josie_L]

You believe it was men that put the bible together rather than God?

Hisalone, I understand why you are getting confused by our insistence that the CC compiled the Bible, you think somehow by stating what we do, we imply that God was unnecessary or played a secondary role in compiling the Bible. That is not what we Catholics are suggesting, we realize that the CC was led by the Holy Spirit, without which it could not have recognized inspired scripture, but we also realize that God chose the CC to bring forth Truth because of its God-given authority.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel the reason scripture is so important to nonCatholics is that the RCC placed so little importance in it at the time of the Reformation.

Gabriel of 12:

Not true Hisalone; noncatholics place their faith on the bible because they reject the authority Jesus Christ gave us in the Catholic church. The Catholic church came first before the New Testament. Not to mention the invention of “Sola Scriptura” as being their Sole authority. Now I am not objecting to the authority of Sacred Scripture, I just do not limit God “only or Sola” to his sacred Word of scripture, because he is all living and can act outside of scripture if he so wills, but God will not conflict with his living Word.

I must object again to your statement here about the “little importance” the Catholic church in the Fourth Lateran Council 1215 a.d before the Reformation, emphasized the individuals response to the bible drawing the corrolation of Vertical (pietas) personal and horizontal (caritas) which affected everyone.

In layman terms, the Catholic church recognizes individuals recieving graces from scriptural reading, and personal interpretations, but these personal interpretations if different from the Apostolic teachings which affect everyone, cannot be taught or start up a different sect of Christianity by them, as the JW’s, Mormons, SDA’s etc. have done in our day, thus multiple interpretations of the scriptural understanding which conflicts with Apostolic teachings.

The Catholic church is the “Rock” that will go to the death first, should a letter of God’s Word be rejected or changed. In passing, the Protestants have rejected 7 of God’s canonized books of the bible.

Peace be with you;

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

The scriptures given are really pretty straight foward. Why do you insist on twisting Luke 24 to suit your heresy? Jesus opened up the scriptures to His disciples to reveal Himself, not your man made institution.

Gabriel of 12;

You must of missed the quote when Jesus interpreted “ALL” the scriptures to them. here it is again for you;

Luke 24:27
Then beginning with Moses and all the prophets,** he interpreted to them what referred to him in all the scriptures. **

The opening of the scriptures is stated in the past tense after Jesus revealed himself to his disciples in his “Eucharist” from the first recorded “Mass” after the resurrection. Take a look for yourself;

Luke 24:30
And it happened that, while he was with them at table, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them.
31
With that their eyes were opened and they recognized him, but he vanished from their sight.
32
Then they said to each other, “Were not our hearts burning (within us) while he spoke to us on the way and opened the scriptures to us?”

Truth be told here Hisalone; Jesus built this Catholic church not man; It was man who built your interpretation of church.

Jesus revealed “All” these things to his apostles and sent them into the world to proclaim Jesus interpretation of scripture, Then he ascended into heaven, and has never left his Catholic church as Jesus promised to be with her always and will never leave her. No other Christian faith can confirm these claims from recorded history but the Catholic Church.

Without “Authority” all you have is a personal interpretation, even “IF” it should be the correct interpretation it remains private interpretation, because you dont subscribe to the Authority of Jesus Christ. Dont fret here, because I too have my personal interpretations of scripture, but Jesus did not give me the authority when he walked the earth to go and build my own church from my personal interpretation of scripture to compete with Jesus Church he built upon “Peter” and Jesus biblical interpretations.

Peace be with you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

All Im saying is we owe God a debt for the bible, not the RCC.

“Amen” The Roman Catholic church was only an instrument of God used for canonizing the bible. We dont give thanks to a tool, we give all the glory to God for using his tool.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel you are setting up a straw man.
Our claim is that scriptures do not belong to the RCC they were given to all the people of God.
We own no debt of graditude to the RCC for the scriptures because it was God who gave them to us. Not the RCC.

Forgive me if I am percieved of setting up a straw man. You are correct the scriptures do not belong to the Roman Catholic church. The Roman Catholic church was commisioned by Jesus Christ to give the scriptures to you, me and all the world.

As my previous post indicates in agreement with you again, We give all the praise and thanksgiving to God who gave us his revealed Word through Jesus. We dont need to give thanks to the instrument (tool) God used in the Roman Catholic church to bring us God’s infallible Word, God alone deserves our thanks and praise “Amen”.

 

[Ginger2]

Gabriel of 12:

Luke 24, states; Jesus revealed “ALL” the scriptures to his disciples who handed them down to the catholic church today by both Sacred Scriptures and Sacred Tradition. Tell me which Church father or successor to the apostles taught you scripture interpretation?

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ

This says “when we read we can understand” what we are reading.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 4 Some of the Jews were persuaded …

This says Paul he explained/interpreted the Scriptures to them. Some accepted the truth and some denied it.

Those who believed did not believe in the Scriptures because Paul explained the Scriptures (ie infallible interpretation) - **They believed what Paul said because the Scriptures proved **Paul was telling the truth.
Those who did not believe, denied because they choose not to believe.

This demonstrates the RC’s “infallible interpretation” is useless.
Faith is a matter of choice and understanding only comes from God.

God reveals Himself to whom He will - with or without the help of any man.

Ginger

 

[elvisman]

You believe it was men that put the bible together rather than God?

What God didn’t do was decend from heaven and piece it together Himself.
God used his instrument on earth - the Catholic Church - to compile and declare the biblical canon.

I know you have a problem with that, so let’s hear it your logic.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ

This says “when we read we can understand” what we are reading.

Act 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, 4 Some of the Jews were persuaded …

This says Paul he explained/interpreted the Scriptures to them. Some accepted the truth and some denied it.

Those who believed did not believe in the Scriptures because Paul explained the Scriptures (ie infallible interpretation) - **They believed what Paul said because the Scriptures proved **Paul was telling the truth.
Those who did not believe, denied because they choose not to believe.

This demonstrates the RC’s “infallible interpretation” is useless.
Faith is a matter of choice and understanding only comes from God.

God reveals Himself to whom He will - with or without the help of any man.

Ginger

Ginger, I think you missed one read 2 peter 3;16 and acts 8;31 or two, my math is a little off…Have a good day==== a little question why do you think we have over 31,000 non-cathloic church in the world today all beieving the bible and all teaching a diff gosple

 

[Ginger2]

Ginger, … a little question why do you think we have over 31,000 non-cathloic church in the world today all beieving the bible and all teaching a diff gosple

Bill,

Why do Catholics adhere to myths to support their beliefs? Let me briefly demonstrate the folly of your accusation:

Here are a few categories of the Catholic church denominations as listed within Barrett’s Encyclopedia of 22,000 denominations. (31,000 according to the Catholics who arbitrarily upped the number)

Roman Catholics (242 denominations)
Armenian (Eastern-rite Catholic)
Bulgarian (Byzantine rite)
Chaldean (Eastern Syrian rite)
Coptic (Alexandrian rite)
Ethiopic (Alexandrian rite)
etc. (edited for space)

Orthodox (781 denominations) :
Albanian/Greek-speaking Orthodox
Arabic or Arabic/Greek-speaking Orthodox
Armenian Orthodox (Gregorian)
Bulgarian Orthodox
Coptic Orthodox
etc. (edited for space)

Anglicans (168 denominations):
Anglo-Catholic
Central or Broad Church Anglican
Ecumenical (Anglican/Protestant/Orthodox joint parishes)
Anglican Evangelical, Evangelical Anglican
High Church Anglican (Prayer Book Catholic)
etc. (edited for space)

The list goes on and on. As I read, I noticed a very large percentage of denominations had first split directly from the Catholic church.

In order to reach the 22,000 protestant denominations number, all the splits coming from splitting with the RC are counted as Protestant splits. - even those before Luther and including those who still consider themselves Catholic and every heretical group and cult know to man!

Ginger