Protestants: how do you know that your interpretation of the Bible is the right one?

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**to stevegc: you said: **and the Holy Spirit coming unto them to protect them unto all Truth…this is reserved for the Apostles…we cannot place ourselves in their shoes in these instances.

I wish you could show me this in scripture for it is an idea that you have created a doctrine on and should be proven to exist at least somewhat in scripture.

Please show: That the Holy Spirit is given ONLY to the apostles for TEACHING the gospel and the truth.

If you think you have, then please, if you don’t mind, show me again. I might have missed it.
 
christian1 said:
I follow no man, unless that mans teachings is not contrary to the ALREADY interpreted truth of God in His Gospel.
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This is what Catholics say, christian1. But what do YOU mean by it? What do you mean that truth has ALREADY been interpreted? Don’t get me wrong…I agree with you for now…but I’m sure when you explain this, I won’t. But I stilll would like to hear what you mean by this.

I have this feeling you are going to say that the Bible has interpreted itself? In which case, I can only say…books don’t interpret books…and certainly a book doesn’t interpret itself. Interpretation is a human act, and you can’t simultaneously WRITE Scripture, and INTERPRET it through the action of writing it. Do you not see the absurdity of it?

God Bless
 
christian1 said:
I wish you could show me this in scripture for it is an idea that you have created a doctrine on and should be proven to exist at least somewhat in scripture.

Please show: That the Holy Spirit is given ONLY to the apostles for TEACHING the gospel and the truth.

If you think you have, then please, if you don’t mind, show me again. I might have missed it.
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I don’t create doctrine, friend.

For starters, the very verses in which the Spirit descends upon the apostles proves The Church’s position. But you know, it doesn’t matter if I show you a hundred verses where the apostles are the only appointed ones for teaching the Truth…would it matter to you? No. Why? Reference my previous post about how you judge everything through your own private interpretation. I do not. I judge it on the apostolic (Church) interpretations. Nothing I give you will merit your understanding and agreement because of this false premise you possess.

God Bless
 
christian1 said:
With all due respect, you tell me. I simply ask that ALL who CLAIM authority to AT LEAST LINE UP with the ENTIRE written word of God, not just some.

As your authority Paul said, test every spirit. Who was he speaking to father by catholic interpretation when he said this?

I follow no man, unless that mans teachings is not contrary to the ALREADY interpreted truth of God in His Gospel.
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I appreciate what you’ve written, but it doesn’t even come close to answering my question.

When you and a fellow non-Catholic Christian disagree on how to interpret a particular passage of scripture, as you and Jerry did earlier in this thread, how do you determine which of you is correct? Either you’re wrong, or Jerry is wrong, or both of you are wrong - or the Holy Spirit contradicts Himself, which would mean that Our Lord was wrong when he promised the Holy Spirit to guide us to a full knowledge of the truth.

This isn’t a trick question, so please try to answer it directly from your perspective.
 
christian1 said:
**to stevegc: you said: **and the Holy Spirit coming unto them to protect them unto all Truth…this is reserved for the Apostles…we cannot place ourselves in their shoes in these instances.

I wish you could show me this in scripture for it is an idea that you have created a doctrine on and should be proven to exist at least somewhat in scripture.

Please show: That the Holy Spirit is given ONLY to the apostles for TEACHING the gospel and the truth.

If you think you have, then please, if you don’t mind, show me again. I might have missed it.
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If you choose that line of thinking, okay. So when Jesus tells Peter, and ONLY Peter (the singular “you” is used, not the plural)… “…feed My sheep, tend My flock, feed My sheep…”, you should believe two things…

1] Only Peter was given the authority of a Shepherd, a guardian, a teacher.
2] Either Peter, or Peter and his successors, are the only one(s) given authority over “My” sheep. Jesus distinguished between His sheep and all sheep. Anyone not subject to Peter is not one of His sheep. Hmmm

Perhaps you have found somewhere in the Bible, the Book of the Catholic Church, a rescission of His instructions.
Perhaps you have found somewhere in the Bible, the Book of the Catholic Church, a clear (or even unclear) instruction that the Bible now takes precedence to all the actual instructions, authority, teaching, etc … most of which are actually written down, canonized and are still in the Bible, the Book of the Catholic Church.

.
 
christian1 said:
**to

Please show: That the Holy Spirit is given ONLY to the apostles for TEACHING the gospel and the truth.

QUOTE]

The Holy Spirit can work through all of us, but if we deny the teaching of the apostles, we are not following the Holy Spirit.

Jesus promised the disciples that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth.

Those who stray from their teachings are not being led into all truth by the Spirit.

Some scripture for you to consider:

1 John 4

6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us**; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. **This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth **and the spirit of falsehood.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! **As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” **22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is **the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. **

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Acts 15

23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us **without our authorization **and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.
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CHESTERTONRULES said:
christian1;4973235 said:
**to

Please show: That the Holy Spirit is given ONLY to the apostles for TEACHING the gospel and the truth.

QUOTE]

The Holy Spirit can work through all of us, but if we deny the teaching of the apostles, we are not following the Holy Spirit.

Jesus promised the disciples that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth.

Those who stray from their teachings are not being led into all truth by the Spirit.

Some scripture for you to consider:

1 John 4

6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us**
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; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. **This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth **and the spirit of falsehood.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! **As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” **22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is **the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. **

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Acts 15

23With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24We have heard that some went out from us **without our authorization **and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said.

Amen!

now we just got to figure who are these apostles of this day.
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Jerry_Marino said:
CHESTERTONRULES;4973753:
Amen!

now we just got to figure who are these apostles of this day.
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A good starting point would be to read the words of the next generation. The leaders of the Church that were taught by the apostles.

Have you read the early fathers, like Clement, Ignatius, and Polycarp, who actually learned first hand from the apostles?
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Jerry_Marino said:
Amen!:
Now you are getting to the heart of the matter. If you remember in ACTS, the lesson learned is that the position that Judas held had to be filled. Only those qualified (two) were elegible to fill that position. No one else.

The office of the Apostles continued, as first described in Isaiah, and then referred to by Christ Himself in Matt 16:18. Add that to the powers of binding and loosing, given to the Apostles, the direct commands and instructions given by the Lord, and the guidance given (as referenced in the quoted verses above) and you get:

1] The Church (only One) founded by Christ is a living and growing entity.

2] The Church (only the one Founded by Christ) has the promises revealed and recorded in Scripture.

3] Those who wish to accept Christ and believe in Him, must trust and believe in ALL of Him. This alone qualifies the Catholic Church, and disqualifies all other faith communities.

The successors to the Apostles can only be found in the Catholic Church. If one chooses to be of another group claiming belief in Christ… they are in error starting with the rejection of authority that comes directly from Christ.

.
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i hear you two but how can we tell?

i don’t dispute the book of Acts in how the church got started nor do i dispute, lets say the first three centuries of the church, but today my friends how can one tell if what the speak is of God and not man?
 
orange_man said:
No Peter wasn’t the first Pope. The only bishop we can be fairly certain that Peter anointed was Ignatius (bishop or presbyter of Antioch). There is no evidence of any kind that Peter anointed Linus (it’s a post hoc claim). The Catholic Church will say Peter was pope for over 30 years (essentially from around the date of the resurrection). This is an internal claim of the RCC, which is absolutely baseless.

Christ anointed Peter as head of the apostles in His stead. Paul was then anointed apostles to the gentiles. Peter fulfilled his role by settling disputes within the church (such as in the council of Jerusalem) and affirming the apostleship of Paul (and immortalizing his letters as divinely inspired). Peter’s role was a temporal one, with Christ being the eternal head of the church. The RCC simply invented the entire mythology of papal rule in order to bolster its own control over Christendom. You buy into it … I don’t.
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When Christ anointed Peter the head of the Apostles what do you think that made him. Is the not what a Pope is head of the Bishops today?
 
Jerry_Marino said:
i hear you two but how can we tell?

i don’t dispute the book of Acts in how the church got started nor do i dispute, lets say the first three centuries of the church, but today my friends how can one tell if what the speak is of God and not man?
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Thats a easy one. God Promised his APostles the gift of the Holy Spirit. He promised us that Succession would not die!😃
 
To father:
you said: I appreciate what you’ve written, but it doesn’t even come close to answering my question.

When you and a fellow non-Catholic Christian disagree on how to interpret a particular passage of scripture, as you and Jerry did earlier in this thread, how do you determine which of you is correct? Either you’re wrong, or Jerry is wrong, or both of you are wrong -

That is correct. Either he is wrong, or I am wrong, or we are both wrong. Who will judge. I have to make a final judgement for myself as I am ultimately responsible for my own soul, no man can save it but me through my decision to follow Christ and the first fathers teachings and ALL other mens teachings that do NOT CONTRADICT or ADD in such a way that discredits the first teachings. This Paul COMMANDED us to be sure to not believe ANOTHER GOSPEL OR SPIRIT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT HE TAUGHT.

you said: or the Holy Spirit contradicts Himself, which would mean that Our Lord was wrong when he promised the Holy Spirit to guide us to a full knowledge of the truth.

Who said He isn’t still guidning all of us into full truth. If I had not tested the spirit of what he was teaching, then I would believe him. But I obeyed the written word and tested the spirit, in this case I simply used the very scripture that he was using to teach his doctrine. those who know the word of God fully know that doctrine in scripture is supported by ALL scripture. It must past the scripture test.

It comes down to interpretaion you say. Fine you say you have the authority alone to interpret scripture and I say that the scripture says that ALL those who believe is given the Holy Spirit for this purpose. What scripture have I violated when I confront you about this contradiction, and ask that you prove to me by the Holy Word that your doctrines of man do not nullify the word of God as the priests of Jesus day were doing?

They also were appointed by God to teach and lead the people. What happened to them? The scriptures say they too began to create doctrines of men that nullified the word of God.

Concerning once saved always saved, I don’t have to be catholic to know that this doctrine is not found in scripture, but the opposite. I know this by simply KNOWING the scriptures. In this case it is not a matter of interpretaion but a matter of knowing the Word fully. He just needs to continue as always. Asking God to continue to lead Him as He promised He would into truth. The truth will uncover the lie.

I understand that many have need of teachers. But how long must we have needs to be taught before we come to the knowledge? Before we are equipped to teach the gospel?

How long will we be divided? The doctrine of my sister Mary is unscriptural. For with God is there not physical and spiritual? Was not Mary the physical mother of God but a daughter of the Spiritual God? Why have you elevated her beyond her position? For truly, those who obey Chirst are His brother, mother and sister. What does this mean? You tell me.

She will be called blessed thorughout all generations. And indeed she is, among every religion for the most part.
But co-redemptrix? Was this the position God called her to?
Why then, are the gospel’s so quiet about such an esteemed position for Mary.

Your mother is here to see you. Who are my mother, and brother and sisters? But thsoe who obey me. Did our Lord not make it clear who Mary was? Was she not equal to those who believe in Him. Did not Joseph know her as is the custom? After Jesus birth? What does this mean? You tell me.

The doctrine of Mary is not helping to further the gospel. For those who are students of the Word can see that it is unscriptural. If Mary were here she would insist that people take their eyes off of her and put it on her savior. That is what she called Him is it not? You say she was born without sin. Why suggest this? How does it further Christ?

You have littered the way to heaven with your traditions preventing those that would enter because they do not embrace your traditions.

Tell me. Who are the churches in Revelation that your Lord was warning? Who was He speaking to? Those in charge of the churches or the people? body

you said: This isn’t a trick question, so please try to answer it directly from your perspective.

I have answered it from my perspective. Tell me where my perspective has strayed from the Word of God. I desire only to please God. I care not about titles and religion, but the fruit of each. This is what the Word continuously teaches. Surely you must know of it.
 
Jerry_Marino said:
i hear you two but how can we tell?

i don’t dispute the book of Acts in how the church got started nor do i dispute, lets say the first three centuries of the church, but today my friends how can one tell if what the speak is of God and not man?
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Faith!!! Faith that Jesus has kept His promised to guide and protect His Church until the end of time and that the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. If Jesus didn’t keep His promise, then none of this matters anyway. That would render Scripture and this whole thing meaningless. Did the gates prevail? If so, when? The Catholic Church teaches what it always has. Understanding grows, just as Jesus promised. Wholesale changes to teaching are completely different, and is what MAN does. The magisterium of Christ’s Church has NOT made changes to Christ’s Deposit of Faith. You either have FAITH that Christ IS protecting His Church and guiding Her to all Truth, or you believe in the teachings of men that found churches apart from Her. These men are fallible, humans. They error, teach error. The Catholic Church teaches Christ’s Truth just as she recorded it. You have to understand the context in which it was written. Only the Catholic Church knows that context. Men outside of her have their own interpetation.
 
Christian1,
Christ didn’t say He would guide ALL of us to the Truth. He said that He would guide HIS CHURCH to all Truth. WE don’t have any authority. We are to follow and submit to THEIR authority. Just as they submitted to Christ. Christ GAVE THEM their authority. He didn’t give it to anyone else. So, WHO today could possibly still have authority? Christ’s Church, the magisterium who through the power of the Holy Spirit HAS PROTECTED His Truth from man’s whim, from man’s pride/ego, from all kinds of heresy for almost 2,000 years. You may not understand the issues you have completely. Search them to their origin, completely to the Truth before you speak against the Church. You, as a mere human, just as all of us, do not have the ability to fully grasp everything. These things can only be revealed to us by God and ONLY if we are humbly OPEN to receive the Truth in it’s entirety. Just because we don’t understand it, doesn’t mean we can say it is wrong.
 
To stevegc: you said: I have this feeling you are going to say that the Bible has interpreted itself? In which case, I can only say…books don’t interpret books…and certainly a book doesn’t interpret itself. Interpretation is a human act, and you can’t simultaneously WRITE Scripture, and INTERPRET it through the action of writing it. Do you not see the absurdity of it?

Yes I do see the absurdity of what your thinking I’m saying.

When I say I use scripture to test the scripture, I simply mean that we cannot allow doctrines to be created that aren’t fully supported throughout ALL scripture. The collective Word of God teaches many of the same things in many different places.

But if Joe, representing (whatever religioin) says, “this is a truth” then I should hope it would be at least validated in the Word. As it stands, Mary’s doctrine has no such validation except through metaphorical interpretation. And this wouldn’t be so bad If it were not that there is scriptural evidence to the contrary of this doctrine.
 
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