Protestants, How Do You Understand Scripture Without The Knowledge of Traditions?

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Reuben,
I have a hard time finding words sometimes so I use tools at my resource to do it for me.
First, the old covenant ritual is described: “The first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary” (9:1). The author does not write about the covenants made with Noah or Abraham, even though they came first. Rather, by “first” he means the covenant made at Sinai, because it is the covenant replaced by Jesus’ new covenant. The Sinai covenant had laws about how people could approach God.
There is more here and it is my understanding of why Jesus is the High Priest.
I was thinking, why Jesus was also called the High Priest?
 
I mentioned that the Sacraments are tools (in layman term; gifts/graces in spiritual term) to sustain the gift of salvation. We recieve the Sacraments to experience the graces of God building us up spiritually.

What you point to us above is the profit that the Sacrament (in this case the Holy Eucharist) generates. Beautiful.
Some people laugh at me when I say that Catholics go to heaven by “Concorde” when they make use of the Sacraments. (I know that the Concorde is no longer in use but this is a spiritual Concorde).

Isn’t the Bible marvellous? There is always more, always more. You can read a passage 1000 times and you will find something more! Don’t you just love it? Doesn’t our Catholic Faith gives you consolation? It is not easy but it is good, it is right.

:love:
 
Huh, just to remember? And what bread you break and how do you break it?

What about this? Why did he say this?

**Jn 6:55 “For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink”.

1 Cor 11:24 “This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

Jn 6:53 “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you**”.

Ok, dougfreed, I think I’m being unfair. I shouldn’t quiery you. After all I ask you how you understand the verses and you gave them to me. Thanks.
To be honest I have given this scripture a lot of thought.

If I had been there I would have turned my back on Jesus just like the Disciples. What a ridiculous thing - to eat flesh and drink blood! But Jesus didn’t say "Whoh, hey wait a minute I didn’t mean it *like that! *what I mean is… No, he reinforced what he had said. He made it quite clear! He repeated his exact words. No symbol that!

Of course now we have the witness of 2000 years and so I say that although I do not understand I believe because Jesus said so and I love and TRUST HIM! That is what Faith is all about. Believing, trusting, loving our God.

And so, who can resist? When you believe this you HAVE to go to Mass every day! You don’t have an option.

:love:
 
Anytime Anywhere Everywhere. I don’t think the kind of bread or how you break it is really the point. The point is do this to show me that you remember and I will reward you with eternal life.
Abide me me Jesus said. Go back to the scripture read and reread. This is very real. You will not understand. Not in this world. What you can do is believe.

Faith is a choice - it is a decision.

:love:
 
Anytime Anywhere Everywhere. I don’t think the kind of bread or how you break it is really the point. The point is do this to show me that you remember and I will reward you with eternal life.
You have given me insight on how you understand the verses. I could not have asked for more, could I?

Needless to say, and which I am sure you already known, our understanding of these verses differs. Even without referring to the tradiiton of the Holy Mass, the verses tell me absolutely more than just the eating and the remembering. After all I eat bread everyday and I remember Jesus dying on the cross everyday and I say grace before I eat everytime but I know they can hardly be the bread and the drink that was mentioned in the said verses.

Jesus was explicit when he said the bread was his body and the drink was his blood. No matter how I try to circumscribe this saying by interpreting it as symbolic or metaphor or parable to make it palatable to my understanding that the Lord should be a reasonable and a sane person, I know my mind would not be at peace with it. Jesus did not qualify his sentences; he definitely was neither kidding nor joking. We know he didn’t when he started his sentence with “truly, truly or amen, amen, I say to you … “. Besisde it was a sombre moment knowing what was in store for him; not to mention of the Passover that was looming. You know how crazy the Jews were over this thing.

Well his disciples thought that it was hard saying and most probably thought he had gone bonker. He could have clarified it with them like how he did with the Parable of the Sower. He didn’t. In fact he thought that they might leave him for this teaching. So I have no reason to think he meant anything else than what he actually said.

I know that the bread and the drink need to be changed to what he said they were. I cannot do that on my breakfast table. Hence it cannot be just anytime and anywhere. So I beg to differ in my understanding with you.

I hope you don’t mind my rambling or if my statements are not invited. I am passionate about this and perhaps it’s a ranting of a crazy man. But I think this is within the forum’s rule – to contrast each other belief.

May God bless you, dougfreed. +
 
Reuben J
You seem like a good person and I take what you say even though we differ on some thoughts and I consider all that is said. One thing I can say we both agree on is “God is GREAT!!!” You are not rambling to me, if you were I’d just ignore you…My God Be With Us ALL Always And BLESS US…
I hope you don’t mind my rambling or if my statements are not invited. I am passionate about this and perhaps it’s a ranting of a crazy man. But I think this is within the forum’s rule – to contrast each other belief.
 
Reuben J
You seem like a good person and I take what you say even though we differ on some thoughts and I consider all that is said. One thing I can say we both agree on is “God is GREAT!!!” You are not rambling to me, if you were I’d just ignore you…My God Be With Us ALL Always And BLESS US…
Hey, thanks for the charity. 🙂

Agreed. Great is the Lord and is most worthy of our praise.
 
THE Ten Commandments of course.

Anyone who lives in this world should know what I am talking about.

😃
I do; unfortunately, the Catholic Church and most Protestant denominations have a different set.
 
Oh! And what would your 10 Commandments be? Do tell!

:confused:
MOST PROTESTANT
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your father and mother
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet

CATHOLIC + LUTHERAN
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your father and mother
You shall not kill
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife
 
MOST PROTESTANT
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your father and mother
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet

CATHOLIC + LUTHERAN
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your father and mother
You shall not kill
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor
You shall not covet your neighbor’s house
You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife
Having no other God - include idols.

Covetting your neighbour’s house (goods) is quite different from covetting his wife. Unless you regard wives as property. 😛 So that would be two commandments.

How did Protestants came out with their set of the comandments, BTW?
 
Reuben J;:
I do not use your methodology to understand
/ interpret scripture so I would not know where to start even.
Which is why I told you to lay out your axioms.

It’s pointless discussing methodology, until you understand that vast differences between the axioms that are utilized.
the axioms if you may.
If those are your axioms, then your conclusions are self-evident.

xan

jonathon
 
Cinette;:
Anyone who lives in this world should know what I am talking about.
Do The Ten Commandment prohibit the eating of cheeseburgers, or not?

xan

jonathon
 
I have no clue about the traditions but.

I understand it by reading it, making notes, and thinking of the answer.
 
Having no other God - include idols.

Covetting your neighbour’s house (goods) is quite different from covetting his wife. Unless you regard wives as property. 😛 So that would be two commandments.
Not quite. Coveting is a desire for something that either is not yours or that has been specifically prohibited. In this sense, coveting your neighbors possessions or wife is the same: it doesn’t belong to you.
How did Protestants came out with their set of the comandments, BTW?
The passage in every translation I’ve found (Exodus 20:17) has been something along the lines of:

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

The other is Deuteronomy 5:21, which reads:
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

That would seem to indicate two separate commandments, but there had already been nine others before it.

My question is this. If not coveting your neighbor’s goods and not coveting your neighbor’s wife are two separate commandments, then why did Jesus teach that lusting after a woman has already committed adultery in his heart? Why wouldn’t He just say that it violates the 10th commandment, which would be known to all of Israel anyway without any need for clarification?
 
Perhaps Protestants here would like to tell us about this.

How do you understand scripture without referring to the relevant traditions that came with it?
Reading all of the posts on this thread makes it very clear to me that everyone involved is more intent upon proving their own beliefs instead of concentrating on Him. Why focus on the differences between you instead of concentrating on Him and His teachings? If you tried to find your commonalities instead of your differences, maybe there would be less stress and frustration, and maybe you wouldn’t be sidetracked from what (Who) is really important. Stop the quibbling. Satan is laughing with all of this nonsense, and Jesus is crying.
 
Reading all of the posts on this thread makes it very clear to me that everyone involved is more intent upon proving their own beliefs instead of concentrating on Him. Why focus on the differences between you instead of concentrating on Him and His teachings? If you tried to find your commonalities instead of your differences, maybe there would be less stress and frustration, and maybe you wouldn’t be sidetracked from what (Who) is really important. Stop the quibbling. Satan is laughing with all of this nonsense, and Jesus is crying.
You say some wise things but at the same time you are not entirely correct.

People come to these forums to debate and exchange beliefs, opinions, making their point and sometimes they advance and there is more clarity in their minds.

I for one have learned a lot on these forums.

😃
 
Not quite. Coveting is a desire for something that either is not yours or that has been specifically prohibited. In this sense, coveting your neighbors possessions or wife is the same: it doesn’t belong to you.
We see huge different between goods and wives. One is about greed; the other sexual immorality and family. By lumping the two commandments, you only address greed.
My question is this. If not coveting your neighbor’s goods and not coveting your neighbor’s wife are two separate commandments, then why did Jesus teach that lusting after a woman has already committed adultery in his heart? Why wouldn’t He just say that it violates the 10th commandment, which would be known to all of Israel anyway without any need for clarification?
You are quite misleading, I think. Jesus did not number the commandment and at the most it’s only your presumption. Jesus defining adultery hardly affecting the prohibition on coveting wife though it’s related. Similarly, the worshipping of other God and idols - what’s the difference? And yet they are two commandments for you.

By your reasoning then we shouldn’t have the commandment on coveting goods since that is already covered by the commandment on stealing.

Don’t you think that sexual immorality and family a big issue? Look at the number of broken and disfunctional families in Christendom today. If there’s an attack by the Evil One, don’t you think that the obvious targets are the families - the domestic church?
 
We see huge different between goods and wives. One is about greed; the other sexual immorality and family. By lumping the two commandments, you only address greed.
Whoa now. I’m not the one who lumped them together; the original text says “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”, and “You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor’s house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Both uses refer to “anything that belongs to your neighbor”. Paul refers to a married couple having dominion over the body of the other, which is (most likely) what’s being referred to here. Somehow I doubt that someone looks at his neighbor’s wife and goes, “Man, I’d love to let her clean my house!”
You are quite misleading, I think. Jesus did not number the commandment and at the most it’s only your presumption. Jesus defining adultery hardly affecting the prohibition on coveting wife though it’s related. Similarly, the worshipping of other God and idols - what’s the difference? And yet they are two commandments for you.
In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus clarified murder to include contempt and insult toward someone. He clarified adultery to include marriage after divorce. Neither insult nor divorce is prohibited in the commandments. He also clarified adultery to include looking lustfully at a woman. But now we’d be splitting hairs over the difference between lusting and coveting; to me it would be like the difference between a stare and a fantasy.

The first commandment is generally translated as “no other gods before me”, although it seems to be synonymous with “besides me”. This would indicate that worshiping God Almighty is the extent of worship. The Israelites later worshiped God and also Baal, Molech, Asherah, and a host of others; reading the prophets, it’s quite apparent that God regarded this as being worse than no worship at all.
By your reasoning then we shouldn’t have the commandment on coveting goods since that is already covered by the commandment on stealing.
Except Jesus never clarified prohibition of theft or fraud to include coveting; perhaps there simply was no need since coveting itself was already banned.
Don’t you think that sexual immorality and family a big issue? Look at the number of broken and disfunctional families in Christendom today. If there’s an attack by the Evil One, don’t you think that the obvious targets are the families - the domestic church?
Of course it’s a major issue, but this is sort of out of place with the rest of this post.
 
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