Protestants: how ought we Catholics profess our faith to you?

[AlegreFe]

Why are many Catholics relatively unfamiliar with Scripture?

Oh yes, I should also mention that if a Catholic does not “know scriptrue” as the Protestants do is because they just don’t know “chapter and verse” as Protestants do. But Catholics do know scripture from going to Mass. As a matter of fact, we hear more of the Whole Bible in a two year period, than a Protestant would hear at their services in a three year period. “Two year period” if they go to Mass every day, and “three year” if they go to Mass only on Sundays. The Priest has to preach from more of the bible than any Protestant minister does. The Protestant Minister only seems to read from particular verses that he favors more than others. That is not the way it is in the Catholic Church. The majority of the WHOLE Bible is covered in a two year cycle by going to Mass every day.

And if a Catholic does not know the bible readings, that is because he/she was not paying attention at Mass when these verses were being read at Mass. They were probably sleeping with their eyes open, or daydreaming, or whatever else they might have been doing.

 

[flameburns623]

I share Contarini’s view. I am flattered when someone thinks highly enough of me to attempt to persuade me to abandon what they feel is falsehood for what they are convinced represents the truth. Obviously, I don’t want to be strong-armed. I do want people to recognise that I think that I have the truth as well. I want folks to make reasonable efforts to really understand what I believe and why I believe it, rather than trying to convert my by refuting a parody or misrepresentation of my beliefs. In other words: I want a dialogue, not a monologue. And just as important to me as what someone might say or not say is whether or not what they profess really shapes and influences their lives for the better.

Folks may have noticed that although I am not a Mormon, I sometimes stick up for them to some measure. This is because I am not pleased when I see someone attacked based upon a distortion of their beliefs. Moreover, no matter how wrong I feel about Mormonism, my experience with that faith is that most people are made better for believing in it. Being made ‘better’ does not assure them of eternal salvation, and I recognize that one’s eternal destiny is the most important issue. But given that a certain number of people are always going to disagree with me, no matter what I believe, I would rather know that they disagree with me about something which does improve the quality of their lives. Hope that makes some sense.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Oh yes, I should also mention that if a Catholic does not “know scriptrue” as the Protestants do is because they just don’t know “chapter and verse” as Protestants do. But Catholics do know scripture from going to Mass. As a matter of fact, we hear more of the Whole Bible in a two year period, than a Protestant would hear at their services in a three year period. “Two year period” if they go to Mass every day, and “three year” if they go to Mass only on Sundays. The Priest has to preach from more of the bible than any Protestant minister does. The Protestant Minister only seems to read from particular verses that he favors more than others. That is not the way it is in the Catholic Church. The majority of the WHOLE Bible is covered in a two year cycle by going to Mass every day.

And if a Catholic does not know the bible readings, that is because he/she was not paying attention at Mass when these verses were being read at Mass. They were probably sleeping with their eyes open, or daydreaming, or whatever else they might have been doing.

I think that it depends on what non-catholic church you are talking about. My SIL was Lutheran. (She on the road to Rome )

Anyway she was asking my hubby (her bother) questions and even asked if we would go to her Lutheran church one Sunday. Hubby agreed (we made sure we went to Mass also). She then of course returns the favor by going to Mass with us. She was surprise how similar it was to her church.

I pointed out to her when we went to her church the readings that they read that weekend were the same readings that were read at our church. This surprised her too. She then wondered if it was just for the weekend or if all the weekends were the same…. Hubby gave her His Sunday Missal and showed her how to find the readings for every Sunday. He told her this book will tell you what readings are being read in our church on Sundays and you can compare. She did that for several months and found that Sunday after Sunday they were the same readings. Then it made her wonder if the “sermons” were the same…. After all the readings were….

She then would go to her Lutheran Church and after services there she would go to the Catholic Church near her home. (Seeing ours were a little far for her and she didn’t want us to know what she was doing) Before she knew it she enrolled herself into RCIA classes just to learn more about Catholicism.

She now considers herself Catholic, but she hasn’t officially been received into the church.
Don’t know when she plans on doing that… (She still has some issues to work out, but in the mean time she just goes to Mass every Sunday and has stop going to the Lutheran Church all together) (Of course she doesn’t recieve communion but does everything else she can)

 

[Mommyof02green]

I think that it depends on what non-catholic church you are talking about. My SIL was Lutheran. (She on the road to Rome )

Anyway she was asking my hubby (her bother) questions and even asked if we would go to her Lutheran church one Sunday. Hubby agreed (we made sure we went to Mass also). She then of course returns the favor by going to Mass with us. She was surprise how similar it was to her church.

I pointed out to her when we went to her church the readings that they read that weekend were the same readings that were read at our church. This surprised her too. She then wondered if it was just for the weekend or if all the weekends were the same…. Hubby gave her His Sunday Missal and showed her how to find the readings for every Sunday. He told her this book will tell you what readings are being read in our church on Sundays and you can compare. She did that for several months and found that Sunday after Sunday they were the same readings. Then it made her wonder if the “sermons” were the same…. After all the readings were….

She then would go to her Lutheran Church and after services there she would go to the Catholic Church near her home. (Seeing ours were a little far for her and she didn’t want us to know what she was doing) Before she knew it she enrolled herself into RCIA classes just to learn more about Catholicism.

She now considers herself Catholic, but she hasn’t officially been received into the church.
Don’t know when she plans on doing that… (She still has some issues to work out, but in the mean time she just goes to Mass every Sunday and has stop going to the Lutheran Church all together) (Of course she doesn’t recieve communion but does everything else she can)

Of course any non-catholic can compare the scripture that is being read in their church to the scripture that is being read in the Catholic Church.

You don’t have to go to a Catholic Church to compare! You can use the aid of web sites like usccb.org/nab/index.shtml to see what scripture passages are being read in a Catholic Church (at least in the USA) without going to a Catholic Church.

That is one thing I’m not totally 100% sure on… if the reading we use in the USA are the same scripture readings in Germany, Russia, or China etc. I know the form is the same. I just don’t know if it’s the same scripture readings.

 

[rr1213]

I find out that many conversions happen because people see how Catholics live their faith and NOT on how much Scripture we know. …You could have an adult that actually lives their Catholic life the way any Christian should live their life and they could know many “stories” or “readings” from the bible just from going to Mass every day or every Sunday, but not really “know scripture” the way a Protestant person would “know scripture.” But that person is living a holy life because that is what he/she hears at Mass from the pulpit and that is what he/she remembers from learning about the faith in school. That person can help convert a Protestant just by living their faith and not necessarily quoting scripture to them.

No doubt.

 

[rr1213]

I have a mix reaction.

I think some it has to do with not knowing what book, chapter and verse.

For example I know about the widow that gave her money; I know about the mustard seed; the Good Samaritan; feeding of the 5000 thousand; I know how Christ raised people from the dead and the healings he did and miracles he did.

I know the story of Noah, Moses, Jonah, and David. I even know about the 3 people (Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego) that were thrown into the furnace. I however I don’t necessarily know what chapter and verse I can find it, but I know that it’s in the Bible.

If I tell someone about Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego they may say to me where is that in the Bible? I would be left with um, I don’t know… I just know it’s there. Responses like that can leave the other person thinking that you made it up.

I don’t quote scripture much outside the forums because I don’t know chapter and verse very well. Of course inside the forums or internet chat rooms are different because there are tools that can help you find the bible verse. (quickly too)

Example: Just for this post. I knew about Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego before making this post. However I didn’t know how to “spell” their names. So I got on to a bible search engine and told it to look for the word “furnace” in the OT. It found the passage I was looking for Daniel 3:20 and then I able to spell their names for this post.

So I don’t know if it’s because they are “unfamiliar” I just don’t think they want to talk much about it because they wouldn’t be able to tell you chapter and verse. (At least that’s my personal take on it)

Sounds to me like you have a good grounding in Scripture. Knowing the chapter and verse is nice, but certainly the important thing is knowing the substance. I often find myself needing to look up the chapter and verse…“I know it’s in Romans…well maybe it’s Corinthians, no it’s in Ephesians!”

 

[Suudy]

Speaking for myself, I don’t think this is a valid objection at all. It stems purely from modern “I’m-as-good-as-you” thinking. We should be grateful when anyone tries to persuade us to convert to what they regard as the Truth. I’ve had a lot of people try to convert me to all sorts of things in my day, and I’ve never found it offensive.

This is a spectacular point! I’ve been a proponent of the concept that too many people view disagreement as dislike. I think disagreement is a great thing, with one caveat–it is done charitably. And perhaps the vitriol has reached never before seen levels, and that is where it comes from. In any case, though, I think disagreement is a better way to learn than agreement.

What is offensive IMHO is when Catholics feel the need to go on the offensive and describe Protestantism in order to prove it wrong. Almost always these descriptions are unfair or inaccurate (even when they come from ex-Protestants–indeed ex-anythings are rarely fair to the tradition they have left). As a historian, I get

To be fair, in order to have any debate there must be an agreement of principles. And many describe the views of their opponents so that they can lay the framework for their arguments. I agree that inaccurate descriptions are frustrating, and they must be challenged. Until an agreement on the framework can be reached, no meaningful debate on the faith can occur.

I’m not saying that Catholics should never criticize Protestantism, but that they should be very careful when doing so and should not oversimplify *or *express contempt for the fact that Protestantism is varied

And the same goes for Protestants criticizing Catholics. Be fair and accurate with your description, then the real debate can begin.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Sounds to me like you have a good grounding in Scripture. Knowing the chapter and verse is nice, but certainly the important thing is knowing the substance. I often find myself needing to look up the chapter and verse…“I know it’s in Romans…well maybe it’s Corinthians, no it’s in Ephesians!”

Thanks!

At least you are willing to admit that you don’t know chapter and verse well either. But that is not the case with everyone. I’ve been around people that can give chapter ‘n verse as if it’s like walking and chewing gum at the same time. They don’t think anything of it and can make you feel like a heel because you can’t quote the bible using chapter ‘n verse.

It’s being around those types of people that make me not want to talk about scripture much.

I agree with you! Knowing the substance is what counts.

Well I’ve spent enough time this morning (or wait it’s afternoon already) on the forum.
I’ve got to get thehttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/travesmilies/haushalt/smilie_waschmaschine1.gif done, http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/travesmilies/haushalt/smilie_staubsauger.gif done and all the other things that a Mom’s got to do done. (As if it’s ever done )

 

[rr1213]

As a matter of fact, we hear more of the Whole Bible in a two year period, than a Protestant would hear at their services in a three year period. “Two year period” if they go to Mass every day, and “three year” if they go to Mass only on Sundays. The Priest has to preach from more of the bible than any Protestant minister does. The Protestant Minister only seems to read from particular verses that he favors more than others. That is not the way it is in the Catholic Church. The majority of the WHOLE Bible is covered in a two year cycle by going to Mass every day.

Depends on the Protestant Church you are discussing of course. To the best of my recollection, the Episcopal, Lutheran and Methodist Churches follow the same lectionary as the Catholic Church. If not, it’s pretty similar.

 

[rr1213]

I’ve got to get thehttp://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/travesmilies/haushalt/smilie_waschmaschine1.gif done, http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/travesmilies/haushalt/smilie_staubsauger.gif done and all the other things that a Mom’s got to do done. (As if it’s ever done )

My wife, the mother of our three children, assures me that such work is never done. I believe her.

 

[charlye]

I’ve been told on occasion that my professions of Catholic doctrine are offensive to Protestants. Like I’m looking down on them, or saying I’m better than them, or saying they’re not good Christians.

Thanks,
Jeremy

Speaking for myself, Jeremy, I have never experienced the feeling of being looked down upon by catholics. It might have to do with the fact that I was a roman catholic for thirty years and believe I know what the RCs profess as faith. If anything, they perceive me to be a rather arrogant bible thumper.

Charlye

 

[AlegreFe]

I think that it depends on what non-catholic church you are talking about. My SIL was Lutheran. (She on the road to Rome )

This is true. I guess my prior statement could be true for the majority of the protestant churches but I’m sure there are exceptions.

Mommyof02green:

She now considers herself Catholic, but she hasn’t officially been received into the church.
Don’t know when she plans on doing that… (She still has some issues to work out, but in the mean time she just goes to Mass every Sunday and has stop going to the Lutheran Church all together) (Of course she doesn’t recieve communion but does everything else she can)

Wow, this is great. I love hearing/reading stories like this. I will pray for your sister-in-law.

 

[AlegreFe]

Of course any non-catholic can compare the scripture that is being read in their church to the scripture that is being read in the Catholic Church.

You don’t have to go to a Catholic Church to compare! You can use the aid of web sites like usccb.org/nab/index.shtml to see what scripture passages are being read in a Catholic Church (at least in the USA) without going to a Catholic Church.

:yup: This is true! You could click on this and it will take you directly to today’s (any day you’re reading this) reading.

Mommyof02green:

That is one thing I’m not totally 100% sure on… if the reading we use in the USA are the same scripture readings in Germany, Russia, or China etc. I know the form is the same. I just don’t know if it’s the same scripture readings.

Well one way you can tell is by watching any Mass from Rome that is broadcast on EWTN. You will notice that they have the same readings.

 

[AlegreFe]

Sounds to me like you have a good grounding in Scripture. Knowing the chapter and verse is nice, but certainly the important thing is knowing the substance. I often find myself needing to look up the chapter and verse…“I know it’s in Romans…well maybe it’s Corinthians, no it’s in Ephesians!”

Same here, except for a few of them which I know exactly which ones and I’m sure everyone has two or three (maybe even more) of their favorite verses that they know exactly where to find them.

 

[AlegreFe]

…I’ve been around people that can give chapter ‘n verse as if it’s like walking and chewing gum at the same time. They don’t think anything of it and can make you feel like a heel because you can’t quote the bible using chapter ‘n verse.

It’s being around those types of people that make me not want to talk about scripture much.

I agree with you! Knowing the substance is what counts.

(emphasis added)

I know a Protestant that will not agree with rr1213. He thinks that if I don’t know chapter and verse that it must not be in the bible. This happened a couple of years ago before I was more familiar with chapter and verse; I had mentioned something that is in the bible to make a point about something that we were discussing and he would say, “see, you don’t know the bible!” I told him that I knew what the verse said but at that time I did not know what book, chapter and verse it was in. If he knew the bible like he said he did then he could’ve told me what the book, chapter and verse was for what I was mentioning that was in scripture.

rr1213, if someone mentioned a verse to you in paraphrasing and you recognized it but the person did not give you chapter and verse, would you tell that person that it is not in the bible since he/she didn’t know what chapter and verse it was in?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Well, IMHO any catholic that should want to profess their faith to me should do so exercising the fruit of the spirit in Galations 5:22.

Please do so without–arrogance, pride,impatience, anger:thumbsup:

Those would be my requirements as a protestant

Oh and when you are done making a point then it is up to me whether or not I agree-- no need to cram it down my throat.

Can you tell I have had experiences with people cramming religion down my throat

Thank you

 

[rr1213]

rr1213, if someone mentioned a verse to you in paraphrasing and you recognized it but the person did not give you chapter and verse, would you tell that person that it is not in the bible since he/she didn’t know what chapter and verse it was in?

Of course not, that would not be honest nor charitable. As I said, it is nice knowing chapter and verse, especially if you are trying to make a point to someone who does cite chapter and verse, but that is not the most important thing by any matter. What is important is knowing the Gospel in your heart. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” Jeremiah 31:33 (NIV). [This is a good example, I knew the substance of the passage, but had to look up the chapter and verse. ]

 

[jack_hawkins]

The first thing is emphasize the similarities. Secondly avoid the comments obviously that I see on all Catholic forums about Protestants being heretics with “no theology”[sic] and “no reverence”[sic].

 

[AlegreFe]

Well, IMHO any catholic that should want to profess their faith to me should do so exercising the fruit of the spirit in Galations 5:22.

Please do so without–arrogance, pride,impatience, anger:thumbsup:

Those would be my requirements as a protestant.

Those are the requirements of Jesus Christ!

 

[AlegreFe]

Of course not, that would not be honest nor charitable. As I said, it is nice knowing chapter and verse, especially if you are trying to make a point to someone who does cite chapter and verse, but that is not the most important thing by any matter. What is important is knowing the Gospel in your heart. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.” Jeremiah 31:33 (NIV). [This is a good example, I knew the substance of the passage, but had to look up the chapter and verse. ]

:yup: I had a feeling. I wish all protestants felt this way. unfortunately not all feel the same way you do.