Protestants how to you get by without confession

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dronald said:
Elder here clearly speaks as one in Authority and that’s what Paul speaks of in his letters. It makes sense that the same word is used for opponents as it is for Christians.
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You would need to present a refutation of Paul’s letters/Church practice in Scriptures and Church History.
 
Per_Crucem said:
But that is only because our English translations translate an OT priest as the word “priest.” The English word itself has no connection to the Hebrew priesthood.

The Levitical priesthood was mediatorial. However, just because the Levitical priesthood is defunct doesn’t mean that the NT priesthood does not involve mediatorial duties.

The Christian priesthood is based on the priesthood of Christ. Christ’s priesthood is mediatorial, yet it is not Levitical. The same is true of the priest who serves Christ.
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So when we’re called a “Priesthood” in the Levitical, Mediatorial sense, what does that mean for us and how we can mediate?
 
dronald said:
Honest question; are you now changing your interpretation from “It only says they will be healed” to “They are only to confess to elders”? Or would you say both now?

Yes, of course.
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For absolution you must confess to a priest. You’re welcome to confess to others if you wish. Our liturgy contains a public confession and general absolution of sins but that does not absolve the sinner of mortal sins.

If you trust the Catholic Church on the inerrancy, infallibility and inspiration of the Bible, why do you distrust the other teachings of the Church?
 
Michael1978 said:
For absolution you must confess to a priest. You’re welcome to confess to others if you wish. Our liturgy contains a public confession and general absolution of sins but that does not absolve the sinner of mortal sins.
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Yes. I understand this is the Catholic belief, I don’t however agree with it.
Michael1978 said:
If you trust the Catholic Church on the inerrancy, infallibility and inspiration of the Bible, why do you distrust the other teachings of the Church?
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I think we both got it right.
 
dronald said:
Yes. I understand this is the Catholic belief, I don’t however agree with it.

I think we both got it right.
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I’m not sure I understand. You accept the absolute truth of the Bible, yet you doubt the Church that decided the canon of scripture? By what authority do you choose what is truth and what is not?
 
Michael1978 said:
I’m not sure I understand. You accept the absolute truth of the Bible, yet you doubt the Church that decided the canon of scripture? By what authority do you choose what is truth and what is not?
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I know this is a Catholic favourite. I wish I had saved all the replies I’ve made to this very question so I could just link them when it arises. But the title of this is “How do you get by without confession”.
 
dronald said:
I know this is a Catholic favourite. I wish I had saved all the replies I’ve made to this very question so I could just link them when it arises.
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I wish you would have saved them as well because I have never heard a credible rebuttal. 😉
 
dronald said:
So when we’re called a “Priesthood” in the Levitical, Mediatorial sense, what does that mean for us and how we can mediate?
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We are not priests in the Levitical sense. We are the fulfillment of what God called the Israelites to be. God’s desire for the nation of Israel to be priests was for the whole nation, not just the Levites.

All believers are priests but not all are ordained ministers of the word and sacraments.
 
dronald said:
You mean I can repent and ask forgiveness from God and He’ll give a stern, “Nope.”?
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Personally I believe that if there is sincere repentance toward G-d coupled with an attempt at changing one’s sinful behavior, one can be forgiven. However, according to Jewish teaching, if the sin was committed against one’s fellow man, one must ask forgiveness directly from the injured party.
 
meltzerboy said:
Personally I believe that if there is sincere repentance toward G-d coupled with an attempt at changing one’s behavior, one can be forgiven. However, according to Jewish teaching, if the sin was committed against one’s fellow man, one must ask forgiveness directly from the injured party.
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I think this is a good method and would be expected by God as well if possible. Asking forgiveness and repenting with a sincere heart is extremely important.

But the idea that a sincere heart would be rejected is confusing to me. One should know in one’s heart if they are truly sorry for said sin and are looking to refrain from said sin again. Repentance doesn’t just mean apologizing, but changing one’s ways. I can’t see God rejecting that.
 
Per_Crucem said:
We are not priests in the Levitical sense. We are the fulfillment of what God called the Israelites to be. God’s desire for the nation of Israel to be priests was for the whole nation, not just the Levites.

All believers are priests but not all are ordained ministers of the word and sacraments.
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Hey ,that is what I have heard and have been repeating, and I am not even Lutheran ! The sin of Korah underlies this,but Korah fro negative reasons did not see that Israel sinned in the wilderness, and the “change” in plans (now only one of the twelve tribes could be priests). Peter did not think that the consequences of that sin transferred to NT, calling us a royal priesthood.
 
benhur said:
Disagree. Vice versa.
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I guess we can ignore Ignatius letter to the Smyrneans… (~110AD)
  1. Πάντες τῷ ἐπισκόπῳ ἀκολουθεῖτε, ὡς Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς τῷ πατρί, καὶ τῷ πρεσβυτερἰῳ ὡς τοῖς ἀποστόλοις. τοὺς δὲ διακόνους ἐντρέπεσθε ὡς θεοῦ ἐντολήν. μηδεὶς χωρὶς τοῦ ἐπισκόπου τι πρασσέτω τῶν ἀνηκόντων εἰς τὴν ἐκκλησίαν. ἐκείνη βεβαία εὐχαριστία ἡγείσθω, ἡ ὑπὸ ἐπίσοπον οὖσα ἢ ᾧ ἂν αὐτὸς ἐπιτρέψῃ. 2. ὅπου ἂν φανῇ ὁ ἐπίσκοπος, ἐκεῖ τὸ πλῆθος ἤτω, ὥσπερ ὅπου ἂν ῇ Ἰησοῦς Χριστός, ἐκεῖ ἡ καθολικὴ ἐκκλησία. οὐκ ἐξόν ἐστιν χωρὶς τοῦ ἐπισκόπου οὔτε βαπτίζειν οὔτε ἀγάπην ποιεῖν· ἀλλ’ ὃ ἂν ἐκεῖνος δοκιμάσῃ, τοῦτο καὶ τῷ θεῷ εὐάρεστον, ἵνα ἀσφαλὲς ᾖ καὶ βέβαιον πᾶν ὃ πράσσετε.
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Hippolitus of Rome, Apostolic Traditions, Book 9 (~190AD)
The impostor Callistus, having ventured on such opinions, established a school of theology in antagonism to the Church, adopting the foregoing system of instruction. And he first invented the device of conniving with men in regard of their indulgence in sensual pleasures, saying that all had their sins forgiven by himself. For he who is in the habit of attending the congregation of any one else, and is called a Christian, should he commit any transgression; the sin, they say, is not reckoned unto him, provided only he hurries off and attaches himself to the school of Callistus. And many persons were gratified with his regulation, as being stricken in conscience, and at the same time having been rejected by numerous sects; while also some of them, in accordance with our condemnatory sentence, had been by us forcibly ejected from the Church. Now such disciples as these passed over to these followers of Callistus, and served to crowd his school. This one propounded the opinion, that, if a bishop was guilty of any sin, if even a sin unto death, he ought not to be deposed. About the time of this man, bishops, priests, and deacons, who had been twice married, and thrice married, began to be allowed to retain their place among the clergy. If also, however, any one who is in holy orders should become married, Callistus permitted such a one to continue in holy orders as if he had not sinned. And in justification, he alleges that what has been spoken by the Apostle has been declared in reference to this person:
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Hardly after 1,522AD…
 
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