Protestants, is Jesus present at your worship services?

[ahs]

To answer the OP question as a non Catholic Christian, Jesus Christ is The Word of God( Sacred Scripture), he dwells in our inner man(our spirit through the Holy Spiirit).Jesus is always with us, because our spirit dwells with him.to answer question, yes he is present in our worship anywhere.
Peace

I have heard of this, but this is the first time I’ve seen someone write that the Word of God, as St. John refers to Christ in John 1:1, is the same as Holy Scripture, the word of God.
Is that what you are saying?

Jon

I have heard this as well, and argued extensively with another person about it to make sure he really meant it as I had thought he meant it. The point made by that person was that in Scriptures, the words “Word” or “Christ” can easily be substituted with the word “Scripture” without losing context of what is written. (Example…“the chuch is subject to Christ” = “the church is subject to Scripture”)

Racing59 are you indeed saying what JonNC is asking about? And in this do you mean to say “Word” = “Christ” = “Scripure”…which becomes “Christ” = “Scripture”…which becomes “Christ” = “what is witten”? That logic necessarily limits God to only what is recorded in writing…surely you see the flaw in that logic.

 

[CMatt25]

They walked away because they took Him literally. He states it not once, but several times adn the words John gives us get more graphic to the point…from the Greek “to eat” and then “to chew/gnaw”. Chrsit, after statign they must consume His flesh does not go on to clarify what HE “really” meant to say as a figure of speach, but instead gets more graphic. When He then speaks of spirit and flesh, He is rebuking them for trying to understand how they can eat Him through their own human understanding. They try to comprehend with their own thinking…the finite understanding of man…in the flesh. Christ says “the flesh…” profits nothing…not “My flesh…”. “The flesh” can be properly understood in the proper context of John 6 and where “the flesh” is mentioned elsewhere in the NT (see the other Gospels and Romans).

Anyway, back to the OP…do non-Catholics believe that Christ is not able to manifest Himslef physically in the worship service?

Good explanation of your belief as to whether He is and that you believe you eat His body in his physical presence.

Actually though the OP question was “is Jesus present, including his body, at your worship services”? Not whether He is able. Then a Catholic brought up the Eucharist. Since Catholics and others believe Jesus is present physically in their worship’s Communion service and others do not, I don’t see why you say “back” to the OP as if anyone veered away from it.

 

[racing59]

I have heard this as well, and argued extensively with another person about it to make sure he really meant it as I had thought he meant it. The point made by that person was that in Scriptures, the words “Word” or “Christ” can easily be substituted with the word “Scripture” without losing context of what is written. (Example…“the chuch is subject to Christ” = “the church is subject to Scripture”)

Racing59 are you indeed saying what JonNC is asking about? And in this do you mean to say “Word” = “Christ” = “Scripure”…which becomes “Christ” = “Scripture”…which becomes “Christ” = “what is witten”? That logic necessarily limits God to only what is recorded in writing…surely you see the flaw in that logic.

Jesus is reveled through Sacred Scripture, this is what John saw in Revelation. His inner man(spirit) was lifted to heaven. We must be in our inner spirit and the Holy Spirit and the Rema of Jesus Christ becomes physicaly present. Many people get healed by standing on the Word of God which is Jesus reveled through the Sacred text. Man did not write Sacred Scripture, God did through the Holy Spirit. The Earlyest Church did not have a NT,but many knew the OT Prophets and saw Christ reveled through it. My foot was shattered grew back crooked, through the Rema of Jesus( The Word) and the Power of the Holy Spirit it was totaly healed. Signs and Wonders happen when we stand on the Word(Jesus). It is happening everyday,people healed of Cancer and diseases, just like the days of the Apostles.Actually I believe we have taken the limits of of God by understanding Gensis Chapter 1 in the Hebrew God formed us as speaking spirits. The Word is Jesus and Jesus is the Word. His Rema (presence) comes by faith in that word and the power of the Holy Spirit which was sealed in my inner man. I am a spirit, I have a soul,and live in the body(flesh). My spirit is always present with Christ even though I can’t see it. I hope this explains my belief.
Peace

 

[ahs]

Good explanation of your belief as to whether He is and that you believe you eat His body in his physical presence.

Actually though the OP question was “is Jesus present, including his body, at your worship services”? Not whether He is able. Then a Catholic brought up the Eucharist.

Right…thanks for the correction. My apologies.
So, the answer was “no” except by those who do believe in Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist (which some Protestants believe), yes?

 

[ahs]

Jesus is reveled through Sacred Scripture, this is what John saw in Revelation. His inner man(spirit) was lifted to heaven. We must be in our inner spirit and the Holy Spirit and the Rema of Jesus Christ becomes physicaly present. Many people get healed by standing on the Word of God which is Jesus reveled through the Sacred text. Man did not write Sacred Scripture, God did through the Holy Spirit. The Earlyest Church did not have a NT,but many knew the OT Prophets and saw Christ reveled through it. My foot was shattered grew back crooked, through the Rema of Jesus( The Word) and the Power of the Holy Spirit it was totaly healed. Signs and Wonders happen when we stand on the Word(Jesus). It is happening everyday,people healed of Cancer and diseases, just like the days of the Apostles.Actually I believe we have taken the limits of of God by understanding Gensis Chapter 1 in the Hebrew God formed us as speaking spirits. The Word is Jesus and Jesus is the Word. His Rema (presence) comes by faith in that word and the power of the Holy Spirit which was sealed in my inner man. I am a spirit, I have a soul,and live in the body(flesh). My spirit is always present with Christ even though I can’t see it. I hope this explains my belief.
Peace

Actually, that made it less clear.
What I really want to know is do you believe that “Word” = “Scripture”…meaning “Christ” = “Scripture”…meaning “Christ” = “only what is written”. That’s what the other guy believed…and he was explcit in stating it. A simple yes or no would suffice…I won’t try to debate you on it…today.

I personally believe “Christ” is greater than “Scripture”…maybe we have different definitions of the word “Scripture”.

 

[JonNC]

Actually, that made it less clear.
What I really want to know is do you believe that “Word” = “Scripture”…meaning “Christ” = “Scripture”…meaning “Christ” = “only what is written”. That’s what the other guy believed…and he was explcit in stating it. A simple yes or no would suffice…I won’t try to debate you on it…today.

Thanks, ahs, as I was trying to frame my confusion about racing’s response.

I personally believe “Christ” is greater than “Scripture”…maybe we have different definitions of the word “Scripture”.

My thinking too. I don’t see scripture as part of the Trinitarian God.

Jon

 

[Elizabeth502]

Let’s put it this way:

As Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, Jesus is not limited by other people’s perceptions of Him. He can be embodied anywhere. He is embodied within those who model Him. That is very traditional Catholic theology. He may not be Eucharistically present in some worship services, but i.m.o. such a question is an academic one, not a realistic one.

Three years ago, when I was injured & on crutches, it was evangelical Christians who assisted me and declared they would pray for me at their services. About seven years prior to that, it was a non-Christian cab driver whom God chose to be a Christ-figure in my life at a moment of grave emergency.

Properly speaking, anywhere in the world Christ’s Mystical Body is capable of being incarnated. It is only faith and trust which limits (or expands) our vision of that presence.

 

[CMatt25]

Right…thanks for the correction. My apologies.
So, the answer was “no” except by those who do believe in Christ’s Real Presence in the Eucharist (which some Protestants believe), yes?

Whose answer? Mine? I’ve not even ever attended a Protestant worship service yet. But I will say I don’t accept a definition that His RP requires a bodily presence. A spiritual presence is a real presence as well. I once asked a Disciples of Christ pastor whose church does not believe they are literally eating Christ’s body in their Communion service if his church believed Christ was really present. His answer was we sure hope so! I don’t know. Other than believing He is physically present in the Eucharist, do you see Christ’s body? I don’t mean the body of Christ in the sense of His body of followers. Sure we see believers manifesting Christ in their actions and deeds which I think is sort of what Elizabeth just alluded to. But I mean outside of you believing He is physically present in the Eucharist, have you seen His actual physical body, the one that He had as a man when He walked the earth before He ascended into heaven?

 

[dsully]

Actually, that made it less clear.
What I really want to know is do you believe that “Word” = “Scripture”…meaning “Christ” = “Scripture”…meaning “Christ” = “only what is written”. That’s what the other guy believed…and he was explcit in stating it. A simple yes or no would suffice…I won’t try to debate you on it…today.

I personally believe “Christ” is greater than “Scripture”…maybe we have different definitions of the word “Scripture”.

I will admit that I was jolted one time while reading the following verses: “You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life
(John 5:39-40 ESV).”

I also noticed the following chapter, number six, is on Jesus being the bread of life:

<<So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever feeds on me, he also will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” (John 6:53-58 ESV)>>

Even if John did not intend these teachings to refer to the Church’s practice of the Eucharist, I can certainly see why the Church came to see the teachings as referring to her tradition. Given the fact of the Eucharist, it’s almost hard not to read the passages that way (which is probably why my ESV Study Bible goes out of its way, rather unconvincingly in my opinion, to state explicitly that this passage is NOT about the Eucharist).

 

[Nicea325]

Are you saying that Christ can’t be spiritually present without being physically present (in the Eucharist)?

Does Matthew 18:20 only apply to the Disciples?

Of course not. Precisely why Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit. What I am saying is that Christ is present in the Eucharist: Body,Blood,Soul and Divinity.

 

[Nicea325]

I thought Roy’s and Godith’s posts each made a couple of good points based on Scripture as to Jesus spiritually being everywhere and His body seateth at the righthand of the Father.

But at the same time of course God has no limits. He’s the only one among us with none. The rest of us all have human finite minds. God though is infinite. So in that sense it’s possible His body could be present in the Eucharist if He was not speaking figuratively as He sometimes did and if He was already giving up His literal body to the Apostles at the Last Supper for them to remember Him by before He had actually been crucified on the cross which didn’t occur until the next day as I recall.

In Jn 6 I know He also spoke about eating and how He turns no one away and some doubted and then He spoke of spirit and life. And some still walked. But they could have walked either because they were not accepting eating in a literal sense. Or because they were still thinking Jesus meant eating in a literal sense when He might have been speaking figuratively with “eating” meaning consuming and knawing on the belief in Him and in His upcoming sacrifice for all of us on the cross to save us from our sins.

Bottom line is this as with so much about religion is a matter of faith.

Peace to all who walk in faith not by sight.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Sure we see believers manifesting Christ in their actions and deeds which I think is sort of what Elizabeth just alluded to.

Again, it’s more than simply “manifesting” Christ. It’s the theology of embodying Christ. Christ can become present wherever He chooses, including within human beings who do not consciously assent to His presence.

 

[racing59]

Whose answer? Mine? I’ve not even ever attended a Protestant worship service yet. But I will say I don’t accept a definition that His RP requires a bodily presence. A spiritual presence is a real presence as well. I once asked a Disciples of Christ pastor whose church does not believe they are literally eating Christ’s body in their Communion service if his church believed Christ was really present. His answer was we sure hope so! I don’t know. Other than believing He is physically present in the Eucharist, do you see Christ’s body? I don’t mean the body of Christ in the sense of His body of followers. But His actual physical body, the one that He had as a man when He walked the earth before he ascended into heaven.

Hi, Matt25, I’m not here defending RCR, but I think the OP was asking if Christian believe in the Rema(Presence of Jesus) in our worship. Most non Catholic Churches I have attended do beleive in something Commion. We believe the Blood of Jesus goes
beyond Communion and is use to wah us everyday. We believe the Word is what we Chew or naw on in our innerman(Spirit). I think it is a difficult thing to tell a Roman Catholic not to believe in the Rema of Jesus in thier Communion. It is all a matter of faith and what God has reveled to their heart. Different parts of the Body of Christ have different sight and purpose,but it is all the same body of Jesus. A foot is not going to see like eyes or a hand.
Peace

 

[CMatt25]

Of course not. Precisely why Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit. What I am saying is that Christ is present in the Eucharist: Body,Blood,Soul and Divinity.

Nicea, in your belief is His physical body, again I mean not the body of His followers but His own physical body, present anywhere else on earth outside of the Eucharist?

 

[racing59]

Actually, that made it less clear.
What I really want to know is do you believe that “Word” = “Scripture”…meaning “Christ” = “Scripture”…meaning “Christ” = “only what is written”. That’s what the other guy believed…and he was explcit in stating it. A simple yes or no would suffice…I won’t try to debate you on it…today.

I personally believe “Christ” is greater than “Scripture”…maybe we have different definitions of the word “Scripture”.

Scripture is the Word is Jesus manefested in our spirit through Holy Spirit it is not words on a page.It is Jesus but he is beyond Scripture, I agree. But he left Scripture for us, because he said he would be with us always. Ther is your answer it is not yes or no, black or white. Scripture is Jesus food (the Bread of life for our innerman,spirit)!
Peace

 

[CMatt25]

Again, it’s more than simply “manifesting” Christ. It’s the theology of embodying Christ. Christ can become present wherever He chooses, including within human beings who do not consciously assent to His presence.

I’m not interested in playing a semantics game. But Websters has a variety of definitions just so you know for “embody” and “manifest”. Including for “embody” to give form to, to incorporate or to include, and for “manifest” to make evident, to reveal. In that sense which is the sense I was speaking of, they can mean the same thing. Believers manifesting/embodying/incorporating/making Him evident in their actions and deeds.

 

[racing59]

If you believe this, then I assume you have no problem with the belief that Christ’s true body and blood are recieved at His supper under the bread and wine. Yes?

I, however, personally see a big difference between Christ, and His testament.

Jon

Hi JonNC, Jesus is beyound SScripture, but Scripture is Jesus revealed. Testament actualy comes from the Greek Biblyion meaning scroll. Only the Lamb was worthy of opening it. It was Jesus last will and Testament. My Will and Testament is a part of me. It is beyond my wishes it is what I believe, so it is a part of me. Scripture is God’s Word it is only one demention of Jessuss Christ. There are many demention like looking through at light through a prisum. So Scripture is one part of Jesus, I’m not saying all of Jesus.
The Holy Spirit is only one part of the God Head, but that does not limit God. I hope you understand where I’m coming from.
Peace

 

[Nicea325]

Scripture is the Word is Jesus manefested in our spirit through Holy Spirit it is not words on a page.It is Jesus but he is beyond Scripture, I agree. But he left Scripture for us, because he said he would be with us always. Ther is your answer it is not yes or no, black or white. Scripture is Jesus food (the Bread of life for our innerman,spirit)!
Peace

Jesus did not leave Scripture,Jesus founded His Church and left it for us. The Bible is a byproduct of the church,not vice versa. Scripture is only a partial of Jesus food,however,the Eucharist is the true Bread of Life which gives eternal life.

 

[CMatt25]

Hi, Matt25, I’m not here defending RCR, but I think the OP was asking if Christian believe in the Rema(Presence of Jesus) in our worship. Most non Catholic Churches I have attended do beleive in something Commion. We believe the Blood of Jesus goes
beyond Communion and is use to wah us everyday. We believe the Word is what we Chew or naw on in our innerman(Spirit). I think it is a difficult thing to tell a Roman Catholic not to believe in the Rema of Jesus in thier Communion. It is all a matter of faith and what God has reveled to their heart. Different parts of the Body of Christ have different sight and purpose,but it is all the same body of Jesus. A foot is not going to see like eyes or a hand.
Peace

Hi Racing, if that’s what the OP was asking, then we’re on the same page. Because I believe too Christ can be present in the Catholic Church as well as in non Catholic ones. God bless you and peace.

 

[dsully]

I have heard this as well, and argued extensively with another person about it to make sure he really meant it as I had thought he meant it. The point made by that person was that in Scriptures, the words “Word” or “Christ” can easily be substituted with the word “Scripture” without losing context of what is written. (Example…“the chuch is subject to Christ” = “the church is subject to Scripture”)
.

It seems to me that the Apostles were always preaching Christ as the FULFILLMENT of Scripture, whether of the Law or the Prophets, not Christ as identical to Scripture. The Scriptures have a purpose: to point to Christ (the Old Testament) and to proclaim Christ (the New Testament). That is why the Scriptures are/were read and taught in Worship, because they are God’s revelation of Christ. However I do not put my faith and trust in Scripture. Scripture does not take away my sins. I do not wait for the Kingdom of Scripture or the return of Scripture. Christ, not Scripture, does those things for me.