Protestants lacks the respect of Christian history compared to Eastern Orthodox and Catholics.

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Hm! I’m not sure that Protestants don’t respect history. I rather think they divide into two groups. Here is my understanding based on my knowledge of Protestantism.
Code:
Evangelicals, including Pentecostalists, believe that the early church was simpler, without all the ceremonialism, vestments, liturgies, etc. They would argue that many rituals etc came into early Christianity from pagan cults popular at the time - the cult of Isis, of Mithra, etc. They also feel that many of the customs of ancient Greece and Rome impacted Christianity, that the various robes, for example, are holdovers from garb at the time. Or, take celibacy. They would suggest that this certainly didn't come from Judaism, where marriage and children were just about imperative, but from some mystery religions where sex was seen as sinful, where the carnal was considered an enemy of the spiritual - influenced perhaps by Platonism etc. 

  More liberal Protestants would tend to argue that the church shouldn't be burdened by ancient history, that just as the early USA brought a new form of government into the world, overthrowing monarchy, so Christianity should not be influenced too much by what was practiced or written in those times before the telescope and the microscope. That's why Galileo was condemned, for example. Or consider Aquinas. He said that heresy was worse than murder, and heretics should be turned over to the civil authorities to be executed. Is this a teaching from a revered church theologian that we should honor? I don't think so.

  Protestant seminaries normally have students read most of then ancient fathers, like Origen, Irenaeus, St. Clement of Alexandria, St. Augustine of course, and others. And their writings are valued. But they do not occupy the same place among Protestants as among Catholics. 

  As for church history itself, it is full of wonderful events, true, but it also is full of actions (religious wars, crusades, heresy hunts, inquisition, bad popes, etc) that should make us all blush. Such travesties have given rise to recent books by Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, etc. whose united theme has been that religion is the cause of much of the evils of history - and today.
“it also is full of actions (religious wars, crusades, heresy hunts, inquisition, bad popes, etc) that should make us all blush.” I can agree with you here, if you agree that we should blush with say St. Peter and ten other guys called apostles.

Peace,
David
 
“it also is full of actions (religious wars, crusades, heresy hunts, inquisition, bad popes, etc) that should make us all blush.” I can agree with you here, if you agree that we should blush with say St. Peter and ten other guys called apostles.

Peace,
David
You failed to neglect the bad popes only number a few. The saintly pope far outnumber the bad popes.

There have been 78 canonized popes in the history of the Church, and 9 others who are currently blessed. This gives a total of 87 canonized or blessed , or a percentage of about 32 percent.

There have been about ten corrupt popes, out of a total of 264.

There have been perhaps 30 or 40 Antipopes in the 2000-year history of the papacy.

An Antipope is a person claiming to be Pope who was not duly elected or proclaimed while a duly elected Pope was still in office.

Since Antipopes by definition base their claims on defiance of proper Church authority, all have been harmful to the Church, though a few have later reformed after giving up their claims.
 
There have been about ten corrupt popes, out of a total of 264.

QUOTE]

There have been about 10 or so that were murderers. This doesn’t take into consideration the others that were extortionists, pedophiles, rapists, coddlers of mass genocide and other debacles.
 
Unfortunately, this is the best quote I ever heard from a Baptist:
“If the King James bible was good enough for St. Paul, it’s good enough for me!”

Good Lord…how did we get into such a mess??😦
 
Mannyfit75;2992291:
There have been about ten corrupt popes, out of a total of 264.

QUOTE]

There have been about 10 or so that were murderers. This doesn’t take into consideration the others that were extortionists, pedophiles, rapists, coddlers of mass genocide and other debacles.
This is PRECISELY the nonsense that the title of the thread alludes to.

So put up or sit down—let’s see the list and their alleged crimes. That way we can evaluate the merits of your claim.

Otherwise, it ain’t history.
 
As the recovery of the Qumran scrolls shows, and indeed, as the discovery of various “lost” ancient texts has shown, oral tradition stands up pretty well for ancient cultures. !
Not only that, ancient texts of books or parts of books that were dismissed by those who compiled the Palestinian canon of the OT because they were not written in Hebrew…well, guess what? they found them in Hebrew among the Dead Sea Scrolls. In other words, most of the OT writings compiled in the Septuagint that were previously dismissed because they were not in Hebrew have been found in Hebrew. But I don’t hear protestants trying to explain why they continue to use an incomplete Bible.
 
Not only that, ancient texts of books or parts of books that were dismissed by those who compiled the Palestinian canon of the OT because they were not written in Hebrew…well, guess what? they found them in Hebrew among the Dead Sea Scrolls. In other words, most of the OT writings compiled in the Septuagint that were previously dismissed because they were not in Hebrew have been found in Hebrew. But I don’t hear protestants trying to explain why they continue to use an incomplete Bible.
It’s all about bowdlerizing the Bible for doctrinal purposes. Hell will freeze over before 1 and 2 Maccabees are canonical for various Protestants because it is a source of the Catholic doctrine regarding purgatory and Catholic practices such as praying for the dead.

Besides, there is already a marked bias against the OT in some corners of Protestantism and of course an emphasis on select verses to the exclusion of the rest of Scripture as well.

Protestantism is inherently theology by subtraction. Christianity—now with fewer sacraments! The Bible—now with fewer books! Worship—now without the Eucharist! etc etc. Even those aspects which appear at first blush to be additions—Calvin’s heresy of double predestination for example—were manufactured by subtracting contradictory Scripture and Tradition, as well as important realities like free will. Theology by subtraction.
 
Calvin’s heresy of double predestination for example—were manufactured by subtracting contradictory Scripture and Tradition, as well as important realities like free will. Theology by subtraction.
Teflon,

What is double predestination?
 
There have been about ten corrupt popes, out of a total of 264.

QUOTE]

There have been about 10 or so that were murderers. This doesn’t take into consideration the others that were extortionists, pedophiles, rapists, coddlers of mass genocide and other debacles.
Pedophiles are more common in Public schools than in the priesthood. Of the 50,000 priests in the US only 500 of them have been charged with the crime. Coddlers of mass genocide, I doubt it. Of please such Anti-Catholic bias you have is so unacceptible
 
The Anglican Church calls its self a Reformed Catholic Church not a Protestant Church.

Hence it is permissible to quote Deutro-Canon and Thomas A Kempis in a sermon. 😃
The Anglican community can define itself any way it likes. But not only is it separated from the Catholic Church, it does not have a valid priesthood or a valid eucharist, not matter how ‘catholic’ it thinks it is.
 
Teflon,

What is double predestination?
The notion that God creates some of us to be saved and some of us to be damned.

The Catholic view of predestination is that God, omniscient and eternal, knows who will be saved but desires all men to be. Those who are damned are damned of their own free will and despite God’s wishes.

Thus, Calvin arrived at double predestination by subtracting God’s mercy and our free will from the Catholic understanding of it.
 
It’s all about bowdlerizing the Bible for doctrinal purposes. Hell will freeze over before 1 and 2 Maccabees are canonical for various Protestants because it is a source of the Catholic doctrine regarding purgatory and Catholic practices such as praying for the dead.

**Not only can we show the Catholic doctrine of the soul’s purification was practiced by the Jews of the time of the Maccabees, but it has even been retained by Orthodox Jews today, who recite a prayer known as the *Mourner’s Kaddish ***for eleven months after the death of a loved one so that the loved one may be purified. It was not the Catholic Church that added the doctrine of purgatory. Rather, any change in the original teaching has taken place in the Protestant churches, which rejected a doctrine that had always been believed by Jews and Christians.

Besides, there is already a marked bias against the OT in some corners of Protestantism and of course an emphasis on select verses to the exclusion of the rest of Scripture as well.

Protestantism is inherently theology by subtraction. Christianity—now with fewer sacraments! The Bible—now with fewer books! Worship—now without the Eucharist! etc etc. Even those aspects which appear at first blush to be additions—Calvin’s heresy of double predestination for example—were manufactured by subtracting contradictory Scripture and Tradition, as well as important realities like free will. Theology by subtraction.
**Hey, I like that perspective **👍
 
Peary-

You are correct. I think the Protestant admiration for Jewish theology and practice ends at those points where it supports Catholic theology and practice.
 
Peary-

You are correct. I think the Protestant admiration for Jewish theology and practice ends at those points where it supports Catholic theology and practice.
Not only that, I don’t think Protestant theology has ANY admiration for Jewish theology as it is necessarily in and of itself anti-Semitic as its european counterparts.
 
Not only that, I don’t think Protestant theology has ANY admiration for Jewish theology as it is necessarily in and of itself anti-Semitic as its european counterparts.
I think it’s a mixed bag. Luther for example thought the Jews represented a huge opportunity to “fix” Christianity, only to turn on them with “Against the Jews and their Lies” when they failed to respond to his overtures by converting.

Rapturists have a fondness for Israel because they see the rebuilding of the Temple as the key sign of Christ’s second coming; this fondness makes the Orthodox Jews fairly uncomfortable in my experience. Rapturists obviously have an affinity for Old Testament prophets too.

Of course, Protestants claim their redaction of Scripture to be based on Jewish theology as well.

And some fundamentalists are practically Pharisees in the rules they enforce upon the faithful (no dancing, no drinking, etc).
 
AllSaints1631;2993659:
This is PRECISELY the nonsense that the title of the thread alludes to.

So put up or sit down—let’s see the list and their alleged crimes. That way we can evaluate the merits of your claim.

Otherwise, it ain’t history.
Why don’t you check out Hitler’s Pope by John Cornwell and learn about the horrific aligment between Hitler and Pope Pius XII. Again, I am less than enthusiastic about being Catholic these days.
 
Why don’t you check out Hitler’s Pope by John Cornwell and learn about the horrific aligment between Hitler and Pope Pius XII. Again, I am less than enthusiastic about being Catholic these days.
To AllSaint,

That’s been debunked by the Catholic Tract, and by** The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis is a book written by **Rabbi David G. Dalin ****and published in 2005.
Yet Cornwell attributes to this letter Pius’ “stereotypical anti-Semitic contempt.” Among other things, Rychlak also exposed Cornwell’s front cover photographic manipulation and false caption stating the photo(suggesting Pius was visiting Hitler) was from 1939.[5] Counter to Cornwell’s suggestion,** there is no evidence Pius ever met with Hitler**.
The cover of The Myth of Hitler’s Pope, Rabbi David G. Dalin’s critique of John Cornwell’s work.Cornwell claimed his book research was originally meant to be an exoneration of Pius by a practicing devout Catholic
Then he gets to the main part of the book: defending the reputation of the late Pope Pius XII by presenting extensive documentation culled from Church and State archives throughout Europe. Rabbi Dalin suggests that Yad Vashem should honor Pope Pius XII as a “Righteous Gentile”, and documents that Pius was praised by all the leading Jews of his day for his role in saving more Jews than Schindler. Pius’s admirers included Chief Rabbi Isaac Herzog of Israel, Israeli Prime Ministers Golda Meir and Moshe Sharett, and Israel’s first president Chaim Weizmann. Conversely, the Nazis detested the pope.
Dalin writes:
“anti-papal polemics of ex-seminarians like Garry Wills and John Cornwell (author of Hitler’s Pope), of ex-priests like James Carroll, and or other lapsed or angry liberal Catholics exploit the tragedy of the Jewish people during the Holocaust to foster their own political agenda of forcing changes on the Catholic Church today.”
 
Manny, why didn’t you put SOME in the thread title?
I should have. I know C.H. Lewis, Cardinal Newman before he was Catholic have a deep respect for Christian history, and I know some well know Protestant historians mentioned by Catholic Apologists concerning ECF writings.
 
To AllSaint,

That’s been debunked by the Catholic Tract, and by** The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis is a book written by **Rabbi David G. Dalin ****and published in 2005.
As much as I don’t like to admit it or think about it, I can show you between 30 and 40 pictures that prove the Catholic church alliance with the Nazi party in the 30’s and 40’s. Again, I am not exactly enchanted to be Catholic these days.
 
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