Protestants listen up...part II

[Prodigal_Son1]

The isrealites where God’s church and how many time did they play the Harlot with false God’s? All men living today are God’s church… they just have to come back to God.

Amen

Your posts and links are anti-Catholic and it’s against the rules of these forums to post links to anti-Catholic materials and I believe it’s also against the rules to post private revelations.

 

[jam070406]

todd,

just say what you are trying to say and stop talking in mysterious riddles. Just sum it up for everyone please. If it is something as important as you claim it is then just straight up come out with it.

 

[toddvetter]

Your posts and links are anti-Catholic and it’s against the rules of these forums to post links to anti-Catholic materials and I believe it’s also against the rules to post private revelations.

Is history anti catholic?

I am aware of the middle ages… why would you want to supress what you don’t understand? What I am posting is history. in correlation with Roman bible verses as well as historical verses of testimony which have surfaced… why is that an issue?

 

[jam070406]

todd,

just say what you are trying to say and stop talking in mysterious riddles. Just sum it up for everyone please. If it is something as important as you claim it is then just straight up come out with it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Is history anti catholic?

I am aware of the middle ages… why would you want to supress what you don’t understand? What I am posting is history. in correlation with Roman bible verses as well as historical verses of testimony which have surfaced… why is that an issue?

What Church are you affliated with?

 

[toddvetter]

good night gentlemen, I’m sorry that history and bible verses have offended you. I appologise for 2000 years of history that has been hidden from your eyes by our Christian forfathers.

Will you forgive me for sharing historical information with you?

God Bless

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/death%20and%20resurrection%20time%20line.pdf

Just one question i want to leave you with. Why do the 4 Roman gospels in My bible and yours break this testimony up to the point of confusion and this testimony is intact?

Lection LXXXIV
The Resurrection Of Jesus

1. NOW after the Sabbath was ended and it began to dawn, on the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene to the sepulcher, bearing the spices which she had prepared, and there were others with her. 2. And as they were going, they said among themselves, who shall roll away the stone from the door of the sepulcher? For it was great. And when they came to the place and looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away. 3. For behold there was a great earthquake; and the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lighting and his raiment white as snow: And for fear of him the keepers did shake and became as dead men. 4. And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye, for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. 5. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him; lo, I have told you. 6. And they entered in and found not the body of Jesus. Then she ran and came to Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and said unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulcher, and we know not where they have laid him. 7. And they ran and came to the sepulcher, and looking in, they saw the linen clothes lying, and the napkin that had been about his head not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped up in a place by itself. 8. And it came to pass as they were much perplexed, behold, two angels stood by them in glistening garments of white, and said unto them, why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, he is risen, and, behold; he goeth before you into Galilee, there shall we see him. 9. Remember ye not how he spake unto you, when he was yet in Galilee, that the Son of Man should be crucified and that he would rise again after the third day? And they remembered his words. And they went out quickly and fled from the sepulcher, for they trembled with amazement, and they were afraid. 10. NOW at the time of the earthquake, the graves were opened; and many of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the city and appeared unto many. 11. But Mary stood without at the sepulcher weeping, and as she wept she again stooped down, and looked into the sepulcher and saw two angels in white garments, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. And they said unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? 12. She saith unto them, because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 13. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? Whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus said unto her, Mary, She turned herself and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 14. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father One with my Mother, but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Parent and your Parent; to my God and your God. 15. And Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her, and commanded her to announce his resurrection from the dead.

 

[Louie1983]

the sources are history It’s what exhisted then that defined their perceptions which should be of interest especially since this is testimony from a bishop. I’m sure your familiar with the definition of bishop and that no dummy gets to be in that position.

Reference: bombaxo.com/didascalia.html
Didascalia Apostolorum
*
-[v. 13] Wherefore, when you fast, pray and intercede for [181]] them that are lost; as we also did when our Savior suffered.* [v. 14]* For while He was yet with us before He suffered, as we were eating the Passover with Him, He said to us: To-day, in this night, one of you will betray me. (p. 88) And we said unto Him, each one of us: Is it I, Lord? And he answered and said to us: He that putteth forth his hand with me into the dish [Mk 14.30; Mt 26.21-23 (Mk 14.18-20)]. And Judas Iscariot, who was one of us, rose up and went his way to betray Him [cf. Jn 13.30]. Then our Lord said to us: Verily I say unto you, a little while and ye will leave me; for it is written: I will strike the shepherd, and the lambs of his flock shall be scattered [Jn 16.32; Mt 26.31; Mk 14.27]. And Judas came with the scribes and with the priests of the people, and betrayed our Lord Jesus.
-Now this was done on the fourth day of the week. For when we had eaten the Passover on the third day of the week at even, we went forth to the Mount of Olives; and in the night they seized our Lord Jesus. And the next day, which was the fourth of the week, He remained in ward in the house of Caiaphas the high priest. And on the same day the chiefs of the people were assembled and took counsel against Him. And on the next day again, which was the fifth of the week, they brought Him to Pilate the governor. And He remained again in ward with Pilate the night after the fifth day of the week. But when it drew on (towards day) on the Friday, [182]] they accused him much [Mk 15.3] before Pilate; and they could show nothing that was true, but gave false witness against Him. And they asked Him of Pilate to be put to death; and they crucified Him on the same Friday.
-He suffered, then, at the sixth hour on Friday. And these hours wherein our Lord was crucified were reckoned a day. And afterwards, again, there was darkness for three hours; and it was reckoned a night. And again, from the ninth hour until evening, three hours, (reckoned) a day. And afterwards again, (there was) the night of the Sabbath of the Passion. – But in the Gospel of Matthew it is thus written: At even on the sabbath, when the first day of the week drew on, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the tomb. And there was a great earthquake: for an angel of the Lord came down and rolled away the stone [Mt 28.1-2]. – And again (there was) the day of the Sabbath; and then three hours of the night after the Sabbath, wherein our Lord slept. And that was fulfilled which He said: The Son of man must pass three days and three nights in the heart of the earth [Mt 12.40], as it is written in the Gospel. And again it is written in David: Behold, thou hast set my days in measure [Ps 38.6 LXX]. Now because those days and nights came short, it was so written. [183]]

This does nothing to support your argument, so if it’s a testimony of a bishop, it’s not the first time a bishop has gone against church teaching. The paper you have here is very anti-catholic. It keeps referring to the smoke that covers the truth in the church, this is the erroneous and fallacious teaching of individual who try to undermine the church.

Your interpretaion above shows a very poor knowledge of translations and how they spoke back in Jesus time, The way they spoke to each other was very different back then because of obviously the different language and secondly the context in which they were using them. For e.g, brother back then was a term used not to actually identify that someone was a biological brother but there closeness. There are many types of these textual variants that could lead to error which your paper clearly demonstrates.

 

[toddvetter]

todd,

just say what you are trying to say and stop talking in mysterious riddles. Just sum it up for everyone please. If it is something as important as you claim it is then just straight up come out with it.

what I have to say can be found at this link. one just has to take the time to view and understand why my perceptions were defined as such within the bible. You can remove the history displayed in this study and still have the end result with speculations… the Historical evidence eliminates the speculations. And certifies that God’s word (prohpecy) is a light to the world

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/death%20and%20resurrection%20time%20line.pdf

I remember a man named Jesus once who spoke and many did not understand.

And Jesus said, I stood in the midst of the world, and in the flesh was I seen and heard, and I found all men glutted with their own pleasures, and drunk with their own follies, and none found I hungry or athirst for the wisdom which is of God. My soul grieveth over the sons and daughters of men because they are blind in their heart, and in their soul are they deaf and hear not my voice.

What Christ has to say that is not in your bible because of the Roman councils can be found here.

It’s up to you to have the desire to see what he said that was hidden.

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/Gospel%20of%20perfect%20life%20-%20Holy%2012.pdf

May the heavenly parent bless you greatly as you begin a journy that will unite you with the spirit of the hevenly parent of us all.

V/R

Todd M. Vetter

 

[racing59]

Is history anti catholic?

I am aware of the middle ages… why would you want to supress what you don’t understand? What I am posting is history. in correlation with Roman bible verses as well as historical verses of testimony which have surfaced… why is that an issue?

I’m not Catholic, but it is post like this that make the argument why there is a need for the Pope and the Bishops of the Catholic Church. Any one can claim history, such as the writings of Enoch. You won’t find them in the Jewish cannon either. I am starting to see the need for real guidance.The Catholic Faith is beautiful when understood through Covenants. I have a better website for you.
www.salvationhistory.com They will show you the errors in what your website says through Christian History. Catholics formed the Sacred Scriptures that is undeniable. It is the book you and I use.They make the most sense Ot intertwine with the NT from a Covenant perspective. All other Apocaphal books just don’t fit.
Peace be with you

 

[Louie1983]

good night gentlemen, I’m sorry that history and bible verses have offended you. I appologise for 2000 years of history that has been hidden from your eyes by our Christian forfathers.

Will you forgive me for sharing historical information with you?

God Bless

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/death%20and%20resurrection%20time%20line.pdf

Just one question i want to leave you with. Why do the 4 Roman gospels in My bible and yours break this testimony up to the point of confusion and this testimony is intact?

Lection LXXXIV
The Resurrection Of Jesus

1. NOW after the Sabbath was ended and it began to dawn, on the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene to the sepulcher, bearing the spices which she had prepared, and there were others with her. 2. And as they were going, they said among themselves, who shall roll away the stone from the door of the sepulcher? For it was great. And when they came to the place and looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away. 3. For behold there was a great earthquake; and the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lighting and his raiment white as snow: And for fear of him the keepers did shake and became as dead men. 4. And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye, for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. 5. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him; lo, I have told you. 6. And they entered in and found not the body of Jesus. Then she ran and came to Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved, and said unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulcher, and we know not where they have laid him. 7. And they ran and came to the sepulcher, and looking in, they saw the linen clothes lying, and the napkin that had been about his head not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped up in a place by itself. 8. And it came to pass as they were much perplexed, behold, two angels stood by them in glistening garments of white, and said unto them, why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, he is risen, and, behold; he goeth before you into Galilee, there shall we see him. 9. Remember ye not how he spake unto you, when he was yet in Galilee, that the Son of Man should be crucified and that he would rise again after the third day? And they remembered his words. And they went out quickly and fled from the sepulcher, for they trembled with amazement, and they were afraid. 10. NOW at the time of the earthquake, the graves were opened; and many of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the city and appeared unto many. 11. But Mary stood without at the sepulcher weeping, and as she wept she again stooped down, and looked into the sepulcher and saw two angels in white garments, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain. And they said unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? 12. She saith unto them, because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 13. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? Whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away. Jesus said unto her, Mary, She turned herself and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 14. Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father One with my Mother, but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Parent and your Parent; to my God and your God. 15. And Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her, and commanded her to announce his resurrection from the dead.

how do we know that the interpretation that you hold isn’t the incorrect one? By what authority do you speak? There were many heresies that started way back even to the times of the first council! (that’s why they had them, to determine truth and error). The history not anti-catholic it just proves that anti-catholic acts took place, you need to determine between what history is and what history is teaching us.

Stop relying on your “history” argument, just because it’s history doesn’t mean it is correct. If history shows us anything it shows us that there is error and truth, and the church by remaining to loyal to god’s word has proven to be true, hence the countles attacks it receives everyday!

 

[toddvetter]

This does nothing to support your argument, so if it’s a testimony of a bishop, it’s not the first time a bishop has gone against church teaching. The paper you have here is very anti-catholic. It keeps referring to the smoke that covers the truth in the church, this is the erroneous and fallacious teaching of individual who try to undermine the church.

Your interpretaion above shows a very poor knowledge of translations and how they spoke back in Jesus time, The way they spoke to each other was very different back then because of obviously the different language and secondly the context in which they were using them. For e.g, brother back then was a term used not to actually identify that someone was a biological brother but there closeness. There are many types of these textual variants that could lead to error which your paper clearly demonstrates.

At one point in my life i was an Athiest who denied God. If i now deny i was an athiest does it mean it didnt’ happen? We cannot deny our past. This is a valid peice of history from our Christian forfathers that Prophecy is a light to.

If you take time to review the information sent to you this will be clear.

I hope we can all be humble and yearn to searve God alone in this life. by doing so we serve others by plucking the plank from our eye.

God bless,. It’s been wonderful sharing with you…

 

[Eleve]

This thread sure has gotten away from the question posed in the original post. While I don’t expect this thread to be about my posts, I’m a bit annoyed to see it shift its focus to Todd’s undecipherable rants. Could we perhaps return to the discussion on infallibility and Scripture?

 

[jam070406]

At one point in my life i was an Athiest who denied God. If i now deny i was an athiest does it mean it didnt’ happen? We cannot deny our past. This is a valid peice of history from our Christian forfathers that Prophecy is a light to.

If you take time to review the information sent to you this will be clear.

I hope we can all be humble and yearn to searve God alone in this life. by doing so we serve others by plucking the plank from our eye.

God bless,. It’s been wonderful sharing with you…

And your profile says that you were Catholic before you became an atheist. So perhaps you have an axe to grind with the Church.

 

[Louie1983]

what I have to say can be found at this link. one just has to take the time to view and understand why my perceptions were defined as such within the bible. You can remove the history displayed in this study and still have the end result with speculations… the Historical evidence eliminates the speculations. And certifies that God’s word (prohpecy) is a light to the world

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/death%20and%20resurrection%20time%20line.pdf

I remember a man named Jesus once who spoke and many did not understand.

And Jesus said, I stood in the midst of the world, and in the flesh was I seen and heard, and I found all men glutted with their own pleasures, and drunk with their own follies, and none found I hungry or athirst for the wisdom which is of God. My soul grieveth over the sons and daughters of men because they are blind in their heart, and in their soul are they deaf and hear not my voice.

What Christ has to say that is not in your bible because of the Roman councils can be found here.

It’s up to you to have the desire to see what he said that was hidden.

thedeathandresurection.com/pdf/Gospel%20of%20perfect%20life%20-%20Holy%2012.pdf

May the heavenly parent bless you greatly as you begin a journy that will unite you with the spirit of the hevenly parent of us all.

V/R

Todd M. Vetter

I’m sorry but your perceptions are FAR from the those in the bible. There are countless arguments in the bible that support the papacy and apostolic succession and that Jesus built his church on peter the apostle. All you have done here (and cleverly i might add) is look at history and manipulate it in a way that supports your argument, unfortunately this is no new trick. The catholic chrch can and has proved that it has apostolic succession, that it is the true church of jesus christ and that he gave peter and the apostles (therefore the church) to bound and loose sins.

Just because a catholic bishop has his own opinions it doesn’t neccesarily reflect church teaching (that’s why we have a magisterium), And just because certain latin numbers add up to the number of the beast or whatever doesn’t prove much also. It makes for great reading and entertainment but that’s about it really.

 

[jam070406]

This thread sure has gotten away from the question posed in the original post. While I don’t expect this thread to be about my posts, I’m a bit annoyed to see it shift its focus to Todd’s undecipherable rants. Could we perhaps return to the discussion on infallibility and Scripture?

Sorry about that, I felt I had to address that last point. As far as derailing posts, Todd has posted links to his “study” in many other threads as well.

 

[greycaddis]

toddvetter:
Do you believe that Jesus is God made man

 

[toddvetter]

And your profile says that you were Catholic before you became an atheist. So perhaps you have an axe to grind with the Church.

Not at all… I was taken out of Catholicism when I was in 5th grade. My axe to grind is with the divisions of the Christian world who can’t get the story strait regarding what Christ accomplished. What he taught mankind, and why they bare false witness agains God by claiming the bible is the Word when it only contains portions of it.

Remember man can only live by every word that proceeded from the mouth of God. If more words God spoke to us can be found outside of our bibles. we need to consider them carefully and what they mean to us.

God Bless.

 

[racing59]

This thread sure has gotten away from the question posed in the original post. While I don’t expect this thread to be about my posts, I’m a bit annoyed to see it shift its focus to Todd’s undecipherable rants. Could we perhaps return to the discussion on infallibility and Scripture?

I think Todd just made your case for you.Some one has to have infallible teaching or the whole thing breaks down to chaos. All this has convinced me the Catholic Church has infallible teaching, nothing else is making any sense.I also see the Catholic Church put together the Canon of Scriptures, that is a historical fact.
Peace be with you

 

[Eleve]

Sorry about that, I felt I had to address that last point.

I understand that urge; I succumb to it often enough myself. I’m not even sure whether we’re off-topic, as I’m frankly too tired to read through Todd’s posts and hunt for the point of
what he is saying.

To others: please don’t continue to pull this thread off-topic by discussing Todd’s claims about church history. Another topic would be the appropriate place for that, or otherwise I assume that there is no appropriate place for this discussion on these forums (as has been suggested above).

 

[racing59]

Not at all… I was taken out of Catholicism when I was in 5th grade. My axe to grind is with the divisions of the Christian world who can’t get the story strait regarding what Christ accomplished. What he taught mankind, and why they bare false witness agains God by claiming the bible is the Word when it only contains portions of it.

Remember man can only live by every word that proceeded from the mouth of God. If more words God spoke to us can be found outside of our bibles. we need to consider them carefully and what they mean to us.

God Bless.

I think Catholics would call that Sacred Tradition and they have it.