Protestants listen up

[Gottle_of_Geer]

aggghhh must I go on?..Do you not think anyone bowing down in front of a statue knows that? Do you think that even when Pagans bow down in front of a statue that they really think that the statue is actually going to physically hear them, come to life, and listen to them? Of course not genius!!!

Its obvious that the statue itself symbolizes something outside of itself!! Thats the point.
The Bible makes it clear that we can’t even make statues symbolizing heavenly things and bow in front of it…

Leviticus 26:1
Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God.

A stone is still a freakin stone unless you give it meaning! Just like your marble and stone Mary is just marble and stone unless you give it meaning. God commands us that we can’t give even stones a spiritual or heavenly meaning for bowing!!.

I’m not even going to expand on claims of animate Mary statues coming to life and crying real tears and bleeding real blood…

how else would you interpret Leviticus? That verse is more clear than your Mary statue you have at home! I suggest you re evaluate that and take it for what it is and if you can’t understand that simple context it contains then that is your personal problem…I would pray on it…And you blame me for taking things out of context? Half the stuff that the RC does aren’t even in the Bible so they bust out the “apostolic succession and tradition” card…

so let me ask you this: yes Mary was full of grace, the Mother of God, but where did you get the idea on how that translates to “lets make an image of her, honor her, and bow to her statue?”…it certainly wasn’t in the Bible…so what context did you extract that from?

what’s worse then taking things out of context is adding context that’s not even there to begin with! I’ll bet you probably do that a lot…“fill in the gap theology”

Leviticus was for Jews, before Christ. We are not Jews, and our understanding of all the OT is influenced by the fact that we are under grace & not under law, because of Christ.​

Why should we obey Moses ? At this rate, you ought to be asking us to keep all the Law, not just that part. But “Christ is the end of the Law”, its goal, its purpose, destination & its fulfilment. We are not bound by it. That commandment is either dead, or altered and perfected by being internalised, & not being left as a merely external thing.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Also All have heard is we don’t need the prayers of the Blessed Mother we can pray for ourself. I will not deny that. But answer me this: Anyone

When Jesus said to Peter. Peter I prayed for you. Who’s prayer do you think had more power. The prayer of Jesus or the Prayer of Peter?

Next question who’s Prayer do you think has more power the prayer of the Mother of Christ or ours?

Why did Jesus say that to Peter, make a point to say I PRAYED FOR YOU PETER. Wonder why he didn’t just say Pray for yourself Peter.

Could it be that the more sinless and Holy you are, the more your prayers are to be heard. Maybe Job would have that answer?

Jesus is or High Priest & Mediator, & His Prayer has a foundational function that no other prayer can have. All the prayers of all the redeemed have their effectiveness only because of His, & are equal, so that of the BVM or the Apostles is no more & no less acceptable than that of the least Christian on earth. That’s because we live by Christ the Gracious Redeemer, & not by the OT, which could show guilt & give condemnation, but could not give life.​

 

[Hercules253]

Luke 4:8 “You shall do homage to the Lord your God;** Him alone shall you adore.**”

ACTS 10:
25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, "I am only a man myself."

Either the Bible was not really clear about this…
Or some meaning was lost in translation…
Or there is honestly some serious contradiction going on.

On a serious note (maybe even for my sake and understanding since I don’t know anything and I’m completely clueless right?) I just want to know why Peter, a man, told Cornelius not to revere him and bow down to him even though he certainly does seem to deserve reverence. Some can say that it was because Peter wasn’t sinless like Mary but how does being sinless necessitates to being deserved of reverence (since there are other sinless people in the Bible as well) and where did that idea come from? This is a candid question and I’m asking because I can’t find the answer theologically or secularly so maybe you can.

Also, what does Luke 4:8 actually imply? Is it a closed absolute statement or does it contain some loop hole with an exception.
You have to admit, it would make someone that witnessed Mary being adored by Catholics really confused with that particular Scripture.
If it does contain an exception, how do you know that for a fact and where and what credible source is telling you that? Please, no personal opinions. Since you claim that my theology and personal opinions is in great error I would like to know the “correct” answer and where that answer is to be found in the RCC, the Bible, early Christian writings, etc)

I’m open minded to this one…

Thoughts?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Luke 4:8 “You shall do homage to the Lord your God;** Him alone **shall you adore.”

ACTS 10:
25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, "I am only a man myself."

Either the Bible was not really clear about this…
Or some meaning was lost in translation…
Or there is honestly some serious contradiction going on.

On a serious note (maybe even for my sake and understanding since I don’t know anything and I’m completely clueless right?) I just want to know why Peter, a man, told Cornelius not to revere him and bow down to him even though he certainly does seem to deserve reverence. Some can say that it was because Peter wasn’t sinless like Mary but how does being sinless necessitates to being deserved of reverence (since there are other sinless people in the Bible as well) and where did that idea come from? This is a candid question and I’m asking because I can’t find the answer theologically or secularly so maybe you can.

Also, what does Luke 4:8 actually imply? Is it a closed absolute statement or does it contain some loop hole with an exception.
You have to admit, it would make someone that witnessed Mary being adored by Catholics really confused with that particular Scripture.
If it does contain an exception, how do you know that for a fact and where and what credible source is telling you that? Please, no personal opinions. Since you claim that my theology and personal opinions is in great error I would like to know the “correct” answer and where that answer is to be found in the RCC, the Bible, early Christian writings, etc)

I’m open minded to this one…

Thoughts?

Well first, you have to look at the entire verse and not just what part you fit to your theology. Below are 7 versions of the Bible, with the ENTIRE verse of Luke 4:8.

**(DRB) And Jesus answering said to him. It is written: Thou shalt adore the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

(Etheridge) But Jeshu answered and said to him, It is written, That the Lord thy Aloha thou shalt worship, and him only shalt thou serve.

(IGNT+) καιG2532 AND αποκριθειςG611 [G5679] ANSWERING αυτωG846 HIM ειπενG2036 [G5627] οG3588 SAID ιησουςG2424 JESUS, υπαγεG5217 [G5720] GET THEE οπισωG3694 BEHIND μουG3450 ME, σαταναG4567 SATAN; γεγραπταιG1125 [G5769] γαρG1063 FOR IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN, προσκυνησειςG4352 [G5692] THOU SHALT WORSHIP “THE” κυριονG2962 τονG3588 LORD θεονG2316 σουG4675 THY GOD, καιG2532 AND αυτωG846 HIM μονωG3441 ONLY λατρευσειςG3000 [G5692] SHALT THOU SERVE.

(KJVA) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

(Murdock) But Jesus replied, and said to him: It is written Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

(NJB) But Jesus answered him, ‘Scripture says: You must do homage to the Lord your God, him alone you must serve.’

(RSV) And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’”**

See, the problem is, we tell you we don’t worship Mary, you reject it because you know what we believe better than we do.

If you want to use the word “adore”, I have to ask if you adore your spouse? If you do, you have gone against the scripture, in the context of how you’re trying to use it to make your point.

 

[rinnie]

Well first, you have to look at the entire verse and not just what part you fit to your theology. Below are 7 versions of the Bible, with the ENTIRE verse of Luke 4:8.

**(DRB) And Jesus answering said to him. It is written: Thou shalt adore the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

(Etheridge) But Jeshu answered and said to him, It is written, That the Lord thy Aloha thou shalt worship, and him only shalt thou serve.

(IGNT+) καιG2532 AND αποκριθειςG611 [G5679] ANSWERING αυτωG846 HIM ειπενG2036 [G5627] οG3588 SAID ιησουςG2424 JESUS, υπαγεG5217 [G5720] GET THEE οπισωG3694 BEHIND μουG3450 ME, σαταναG4567 SATAN; γεγραπταιG1125 [G5769] γαρG1063 FOR IT HAS BEEN WRITTEN, προσκυνησειςG4352 [G5692] THOU SHALT WORSHIP “THE” κυριονG2962 τονG3588 LORD θεονG2316 σουG4675 THY GOD, καιG2532 AND αυτωG846 HIM μονωG3441 ONLY λατρευσειςG3000 [G5692] SHALT THOU SERVE.

(KJVA) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

(Murdock) But Jesus replied, and said to him: It is written Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

(NJB) But Jesus answered him, ‘Scripture says: You must do homage to the Lord your God, him alone you must serve.’

(RSV) And Jesus answered him, “It is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.’”**

See, the problem is, we tell you we don’t worship Mary, you reject it because you know what we believe better than we do.

If you want to use the word “adore”, I have to ask if you adore your spouse? If you do, you have gone against the scripture, in the context of how you’re trying to use it to make your point.

Isn’t that the truth. It amazes me how people tell us what we do and do not believe. You show them scripture, tell them we only worship God and God only and they say no you don’t. Guess they think they can read our mind too!

 

[rinnie]

Jesus is or High Priest & Mediator, & His Prayer has a foundational function that no other prayer can have. All the prayers of all the redeemed have their effectiveness only because of His, & are equal, so that of the BVM or the Apostles is no more & no less acceptable than that of the least Christian on earth. That’s because we live by Christ the Gracious Redeemer, & not by the OT, which could show guilt & give condemnation, but could not give life.​

Exactly! But remember what God told Job’s friends too though. I listen to the prayers of the righteous. The more faithfull a person is to God, the closer to God they are. Remember what the bible says if someone believes but does not follow the ten commandments God will say I do not know you! And that’s why know the God hears for sure the prayers of the Blessed Mother she was righteous! That we know for sure. FOR US, Well? Lets hope so!

 

[Tomster]

Isn’t that the truth. It amazes me how people tell us what we do and do not believe. You show them scripture, tell them we only worship God and God only and they say no you don’t. Guess they think they can read our mind too!

Apparantly they CAN read our minds - riiigggghhhhtttt. Their spiritual Fathers, Luther, Calvin, Zwingli et.al. could not agree among themselves. So, then, we are, then supposed to take their interpretations of Scripture seriously. All you have to do is to ask them if their personal interpretation of the Scriptures is infallible. That’s all. See what kind of response you get, that’s if you get a response at all.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

He didn’t. The BVM suffered, & other human beings suffer - that is the extent of the “comparison”.​

That is so insensitive ​

As for the BVM’s sufferings, that is purely speculation. Simeon’s words don’t prove she suffered as deeply as that - only that she did suffer. It’s far from clear how much Mary did know about Jesus - the Gospel certainly doesn’t support the idea that she had altogether realised who He was. If she wasn’t very largely “in the dark”, she would have hafsd no need of faith. Exaggerating her graces & privileges only succeeds in making her completely inhuman - into something not human, & not God: into a sort of incarnate super-seraph playing at being a woman. (which is exactly what some writers, to judge from their words, seem to have thought

To say her sufferings were that enormous, risks coming close to the point at which she loses all contact with human beings, & becomes inhumanly perfect - so she ceases to be an example for far from perfect human beings. That is surely not what people intend, but it’s a result of unbridled exaggeration of what can be inferred about her.

What is BVM?

And you know what, maybe I was insensitive, but I just lost control, I am sorry. I really am. I just hate to read fale acusations. Nobody can say they suffered more then Mary, even if they physically did. They just have no right to say something like that. Remember, the root of suffering is sin, no matter how you look at it. Jesus had no sin, Mary had no sin, and they accepted their suffering for Mankind.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

What is BVM?

And you know what, maybe I was insensitive, but I just lost control, I am sorry. I really am. I just hate to read fale acusations. Nobody can say they suffered more then Mary, even if they physically did. They just have no right to say something like that. Remember, the root of suffering is sin, no matter how you look at it. Jesus had no sin, Mary had no sin, and they accepted their suffering for Mankind.

BVM = Blessed Virgin Mary

 

[Benjamin8o8]

BVM = Blessed Virgin Mary

:nope::nope: where is the respect guys, where???

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

:nope::nope: where is the respect guys, where???

I certainly didn’t mean any disrespect. I was only answering your question.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

I certainly didn’t mean any disrespect. I was only answering your question.

No, NOT you lol. You`re our Number one Faith defender buddy We can´t afford to loose you.

I just couldnt believe people had to abbreviate Blessed Virgin Mary. thats all

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No, NOT you lol. You`re our Number one Faith defender buddy We can´t afford to loose you.

I just couldnt believe people had to abbreviate Blessed Virgin Mary. thats all

The abbreviation used to bother me abit, but last year I took an EMT (Emergency Medical Techinician) course and I learned about the bag valve mask. Everytime I saw or heard bvm, I thought of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Now I’m an EMT, and I still think of her when I hear bvm.

 

[Benjamin8o8]

The abbreviation used to bother me abit, but last year I took an EMT (Emergency Medical Techinician) course and I learned about the bag valve mask. Everytime I saw or heard bvm, I thought of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Now I’m an EMT, and I still think of her when I hear bvm.

lol, that is cute to hear.

You will be in my Rosary tonight

 

[rinnie]

Luke 4:8 “You shall do homage to the Lord your God;** Him alone **shall you adore.”

ACTS 10:
25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, "I am only a man myself."

Either the Bible was not really clear about this…
Or some meaning was lost in translation…
Or there is honestly some serious contradiction going on.

On a serious note (maybe even for my sake and understanding since I don’t know anything and I’m completely clueless right?) I just want to know why Peter, a man, told Cornelius not to revere him and bow down to him even though he certainly does seem to deserve reverence. Some can say that it was because Peter wasn’t sinless like Mary but how does being sinless necessitates to being deserved of reverence (since there are other sinless people in the Bible as well) and where did that idea come from? This is a candid question and I’m asking because I can’t find the answer theologically or secularly so maybe you can.

Also, what does Luke 4:8 actually imply? Is it a closed absolute statement or does it contain some loop hole with an exception.
You have to admit, it would make someone that witnessed Mary being adored by Catholics really confused with that particular Scripture.
If it does contain an exception, how do you know that for a fact and where and what credible source is telling you that? Please, no personal opinions. Since you claim that my theology and personal opinions is in great error I would like to know the “correct” answer and where that answer is to be found in the RCC, the Bible, early Christian writings, etc)

I’m open minded to this one…

Thoughts?

THen read what you wrote. You should do homage to your Lord, only him shall you adore. ITs sounds pretty cut and dry to me. You only believe in one God, and only adore one God, Jesus Christ. Whats your point. Catholic’s only love and adore one God Jesus Christ. Where does it say we can not love and adore the Blessed Mother. Its just say’s we only have one God, We can love and adore her all we want. But we can not replace her with God, we know that.

What about marriage are we not taught to love and adore our spouse. Is there a sin against that. We can love and adore anyone, but we can not say they are God. There is only on person who we can love and adore and call God. Jesus Christ! Again whats your Point?

 

[rinnie]

Hercules, When Eph.:5:24 Says for the wives to be subordinate to her husband in everything. What does that mean. That we should not listen to the word of God, just to our husbands. Catholic’s can take scripture out of context also if they don’'t know any better. Thats why God left us the Church to explain scripture to us. not leave us orphans.

Anyone can take a price of scripture and turn in around to mean what they want. But The bible says not to do that. The bible say’s to listen to the Early Fathers of the CHurch. That what we do.

How about Eph.5:5 Slaves be obedient to your human masters. Was Jesus Christ not also human, how can a human be your master, You can only have God as your Master, can you not. See anyone can do what you do, to try to make a unjustified point! But again we have the church to explain to us what it means. Again anyone can take scripture out of context to try to prove a point. But it doesnt make them right!

 

[wmscott]

Jesus never said that. He said that to Thomas. In fact, when he said that, Mary wasn’t even present. However the Scriptures do say this: (Luke 1:46-48, KJV)

46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, **from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. **

Yet you say we owe Mary no honor? The Scriptures say otherwise.

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN…Thank you for posting this. Some, like those who have posted to this thread, just like to go around with blinders on. It is like a stuck record repeating the same thing over and over. Even when presented with Sacred Scripture just as you have, they will rationalize it away. They have to, because to admit otherwise is to admit that the CC is right, OH MY GOD HEAVEN FORBID!!!

 

[elvisman]

Luke 4:8 “You shall do homage to the Lord your God;** Him alone **shall you adore.”

ACTS 10:
25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, "I am only a man myself."

Either the Bible was not really clear about this…
Or some meaning was lost in translation…
Or there is honestly some serious contradiction going on.

On a serious note (maybe even for my sake and understanding since I don’t know anything and I’m completely clueless right?) I just want to know why Peter, a man, told Cornelius not to revere him and bow down to him even though he certainly does seem to deserve reverence. Some can say that it was because Peter wasn’t sinless like Mary but how does being sinless necessitates to being deserved of reverence (since there are other sinless people in the Bible as well) and where did that idea come from? This is a candid question and I’m asking because I can’t find the answer theologically or secularly so maybe you can.

Also, what does Luke 4:8 actually imply? Is it a closed absolute statement or does it contain some loop hole with an exception.
You have to admit, it would make someone that witnessed Mary being adored by Catholics really confused with that particular Scripture.
If it does contain an exception, how do you know that for a fact and where and what credible source is telling you that? Please, no personal opinions. Since you claim that my theology and personal opinions is in great error I would like to know the “correct” answer and where that answer is to be found in the RCC, the Bible, early Christian writings, etc)

I’m open minded to this one…

Thoughts?

Jesus’ kingdom is based on the Davidic kingdom (or the other way around).
At any rate, the mother of the king was the Queen - NOT the wife - for they usually had many wives.

1 Kings 2:19-20 says:
**Then Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah, and the king stood up to meet her and paid her homage. Then he sat down upon his throne, and a throne was provided for the king’s mother, who sat at his right. **
"There is one small favor I would ask of you," she said. “Do not refuse me.” "Ask it, my mother," the king said to her, "for I will not refuse you."

**This is what is referred to by Biblical scholars as, “Typology”. Bathsheba is a type of Mary - as is Eve and the Ark of the Covenant that bore the word of God. **
Mary bore the Word of God (God himself) in the flesh.

Ummm . . . thoughts??**

 

[martian980]

She wasn’t the Mother of God, nowhere in the Bible does it say that she is the Mother, she carried the son of God and that’s it. No where does it that she had any powers of any kind.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

She wasn’t the Mother of God, nowhere in the Bible does it say that she is the Mother, she carried the son of God and that’s it. No where does it that she had any powers of any kind.

To Christians, Jesus was God, the Son of the Trinity. God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, one God.