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martian980
Guest
Yes exactly, no where does it say that Mary is the mother, she is simply the person God chose to carry Jesus
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
The Bible says Mary was the Mother of Jesus. Jesus is God, the Son of the Trinity. God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, one God.
**Joh 2:1 And the third day, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee: and the mother of Jesus was there.
Joh 2:3 And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus saith to him: They have no wine.
Joh 19:25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen.
Joh 19:26 When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son.
Act 1:14 All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.**
Your argument appears to be a contradiction.
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CWBetts
Guest
Ummmm Mary gave birth to Jesus, making her the Mother of God. This isn’t rocket science.
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elvisman
Guest
You have fallen into the 5th century heresey known as the “Nestorian Heresy”, named after Nestorius who rejected the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union of Jesus. This states that Jesus the physical and divine nature of Jesus CANNOT be separated.
Is THIS what you’re denying??
Mary is the mother of Jesus - ergo, she is the mother of God.
Irenaeus
"The Virgin Mary, being obedient to his word, received from an angel the glad tidings that she would bear God" (Against Heresies, 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).
Athanasius
**“The Word begotten of the Father from on high, inexpressibly, inexplicably, incomprehensibly, and eternally, is he that is born in time here below of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God” (*The Incarnation of the Word of God *8 [A.D. 365]). **
Jerome
**“As to how a virgin became the Mother of God, he [Rufinus] has full knowledge; as to how he himself was born, he knows nothing” (*Against Rufinus *2:10 [A.D. 401]). **
**“Do not marvel at the novelty of the thing, if a Virgin gives birth to God” (*Commentaries on Isaiah *3:7:15 [A.D. 409]). **
Shall I go on?
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wmscott
Guest
This is just a viewpoint of mine….
When we are children, we are dependent on our Mothers and Fathers for everything, food, clothing, shelter, life, and faith is God. We even have Aunts and Uncles in close-knit families that have influence with the Father. When we want something really bad, we can go directly to our Father and ask for it. Why, because we know in the end that he is the ultimate and final authority in providing for all our wants and needs, in the end it is he that has fulfilled all. However, as children, with that intimate knowledge in mind, what do we do? We go to our Mothers and ask her to go to our Fathers and request the things that we want or need. The Mother, knowing our wants or need, and having that special relationship and loving influence with the Father is more aptly to interceded in a way to help us attain our goals. This does not mean that we lessen our Fathers position or authority, we know it full well, and we just chose one of several paths to the same end.
Let’s expand on this a little, we (Children of God) know full well who the Father (God) is, we know fully his position and authority in the universe. With that intimate knowledge in mind, we choose to go to the Mother (Blessed Mother) as one of the paths that are available to us to ask her to intercede for us with the Father. We may even ask an Aunt or Uncle (Saints) to pray to the Father for us for our wants or needs. The main point that most seem to be missing is that all of these paths lead to GOD. To simply dismiss them is to dismiss those who have found favor and everlasting life with God in heaven and God does hear them. We get it, we know, and we understand that God is the ultimate authority and all salvation comes from him and him alone.
It has been proven through Sacred Scripture in this thread and many others that what we as Catholics do is no less or no more Holy than what you profess by just going straight to the source. If that is what you are comfortable with keep it up, good for you, just respect us and our ways (paths) we choose to attain the same end.
When we are children, we are dependent on our Mothers and Fathers for everything, food, clothing, shelter, life, and faith is God. We even have Aunts and Uncles in close-knit families that have influence with the Father. When we want something really bad, we can go directly to our Father and ask for it. Why, because we know in the end that he is the ultimate and final authority in providing for all our wants and needs, in the end it is he that has fulfilled all. However, as children, with that intimate knowledge in mind, what do we do? We go to our Mothers and ask her to go to our Fathers and request the things that we want or need. The Mother, knowing our wants or need, and having that special relationship and loving influence with the Father is more aptly to interceded in a way to help us attain our goals. This does not mean that we lessen our Fathers position or authority, we know it full well, and we just chose one of several paths to the same end.
Let’s expand on this a little, we (Children of God) know full well who the Father (God) is, we know fully his position and authority in the universe. With that intimate knowledge in mind, we choose to go to the Mother (Blessed Mother) as one of the paths that are available to us to ask her to intercede for us with the Father. We may even ask an Aunt or Uncle (Saints) to pray to the Father for us for our wants or needs. The main point that most seem to be missing is that all of these paths lead to GOD. To simply dismiss them is to dismiss those who have found favor and everlasting life with God in heaven and God does hear them. We get it, we know, and we understand that God is the ultimate authority and all salvation comes from him and him alone.
It has been proven through Sacred Scripture in this thread and many others that what we as Catholics do is no less or no more Holy than what you profess by just going straight to the source. If that is what you are comfortable with keep it up, good for you, just respect us and our ways (paths) we choose to attain the same end.
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Hisalone
Guest
Is this your best answer?
The act of bowing down is worship.
The 3 Hebrew boys refused to bow down and would not give the appearance of worship. That is what we a s Christians should do.
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rinnie
Guest
Full of Grace the Lord is with thee. She has the Power of the Holy Spirit. What other power is there?
Because of her faith she became the mother of believers through whom all nations of the earth receive him who is Gods own Blessing. Jesus the fruit of the womb!
And um you better read the bible again. Full of Grace the Lord is with thee, Sorry but the Lord was with her, God, Jesus Christ himself!
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rinnie
Guest
And again the LORD IS WITH THEE. The Lord is God is he not!
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rinnie
Guest
Why, Why cant we as Christians bow down to our God, And why can we not bow down in front of the Blessed Mother and pray together with her to our God. What’s your problem.
The devil pursued the woman but had no hold on her, the new eve, Full of Grace, of the Holy Spirit is preserved from sin, and corruption of death. So what’s the big deal if we kneel in front of a Statue that looks like her, and as her to pray with us?
But yet I can go out and kneel in the grass look up to the heavens, and still ask her to pray with me, Whats the difference? Why does the Blessed Mother bother you so much?
Do you really think God is going to say you stood in front of a Statue of My Mother, My followers, a statue in the image of myself and my adopted Father Joseph and prayed to me. You are going to hell! Yeah right!
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elvisman
Guest
**Read my post #197. Did Solomon worship his mother Bathsheba when he bowed down to her in 1 Kings 2:19-20? **It says that he paid her homage.
Answer that - then we’ll see if you have a valid argument. Until you do - you haven’t a leg to stand on.
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Hisalone
Guest
And you still fail to differentiate between a command and a prohibition.
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CWBetts
Guest
You fail to dfferentiate between veneration and worship.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
A command prohibits. It’s the same thing. People are taking commands to have no other Gods before our God to mean we cannot have statues, or pictures if you want to use that logic What would be the difference of kneeling and praying with a Bible in your hand, using your logic?
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Hisalone
Guest
No it is you my friend that are legless.
I could post pictures here but would be banned because you folks would claim it is from an antiCatholic web site. But if you can be honest for a minute you will agree that the pictures show people kneeling in front of statues with their attention directed to the statue, their affections are on the statue these folks are kissing the statue reaching out to just touch it, throwing flowers at it. This dishonors God and does not honor Mary.
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Hercules253
Guest
I understand what your saying.Ummmm Mary gave birth to Jesus, making her the Mother of God. This isn’t rocket science.
Jesus is God
Mary is the Mother of Jesus
Therefore Mary is the Mother of God…
…ok, that seems to be sound, but its syllogism can also be devastating as with the following example:
God is the Trinity
Jesus is God
Mary is the Mother of Jesus
So is Mary the Mother of the Trinity?
The title “Mother of God” can save several meanings and not to be confused with divinity. She only have Him his physical nature. Technically she is the mother of God in a non-divine sense. Theologically, no one can be the Divine Mother of someone who is the Alpha and Omega and uncreated.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
I will not deny some misunderstand Church practices or teachings, even though I would never judge their actions because I cannot see what is in their hearts and to do so would be dishonoring God, as you say. You are using an example from pictures you’ve seen to condemn a practice and an entire Church, based on a few people who may have only been showing their love for someone who dedicated themselves entirely to God, the same as some people will kiss a photograph of their child or parent because of their love for them.
Idolatry is not in the eye of the beholder.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
So, you’re agreeing with the satanist we were trying to explain how Mary was the mother of God to?
Mary was the woman God chose to give birth to his Son, and be a mother too, which He overshadowed her with the Holy Spirit so that she could conceive. Now, with this explanation, which is Biblical, we see that Mary was mother of God, the Son and not the “Trinity”. You’re trying to turn the argument into semantics, in my opinion.
BTW, you seemed to have overlooked responding to several posts to your attention…
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Hercules253
Guest
Ok that makes sense but Jesus said he was not the King of this World
**John 18:36 **
36Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
Bathsheba “became” the queen of Israel as Solomon “became” the King of Israel on a certain time.
But Jesus never “became” the King of Heaven. He always was and always will be the King…following me so far?
So under the same conditions and technicalities:
Mary was the Queen of Heaven before she was born?
Mary was the Queen of Heaven before she went to Heaven?
at what point did she become the Queen of Heaven?
if you say she’s the Queen of Heaven, please show some biblical verses or early Church Father writings within the first 300 years that was proven to be apostolic tradition that indicates that. So far I know that Paul, Peter, John or any other New Testament writers make no mentions of her queenship and royalty and that’s quite a surprise. I’m not saying that sources don’t exist, I’m just saying that I couldn’t find any.
Catholics will also speak of a Coronation of Mary, how she was crowned by God in Heaven. **How did that come to be? At what point did she become the Queen of Heaven? Was that an opinion or did someone actually see God crowning her in a vision? **…I just don’t understand how if it was such an absolute Truth contained in an early apostolic tradition or if its biblical why it took hundreds and hundreds of years to be established as a dogma…
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dougfreed
Guest
Why not just trust in God?
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Yes, the teaching was from a vision from one of the Apostles.
Rev 12:1 And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
Rev 12:2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth: and was in pain to be delivered.
Rev 12:3 And there was seen another sign in heaven. And behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns and on his heads seven diadems.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered: that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And her son was taken up to God and to his throne.
The Church has defined somethings as dogma to protect the teaching, prior it was “taken for granted” that all believed. Take the canon of the Bible for instance. The final infallible definition of canonical books for Roman Catholic Christians came from the Council of Trent in 1556 in the face of the errors of the Reformers who rejected seven Old Testament books from the canon of scripture to that time.
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