Protestants listen up

[almightyservant]

I pray to Mary, the Mother of God, because she is perfect and knows Jesus more than any of us ever could, and she knows exactly what to do. It is obvious that some people pray more and better than others. Why should any of us here think that we can pray to Jesus any better than his most perfect mother?

 

[Hercules253]

Sorry Herc, try again. The Church has never tried to (fill in the gaps) everything the Church teaches comes from God. The reason the Church was quiet as you say about the Ascension is because it was always understood by the early Church followers and never questioned until later.

I never said they actually filled in the gaps, I only asked if it was a possibility. Actually, the traditional belief in her immediate ascension into heaven without death is not entirely true. Many early Christians attest to her natural death. Some say she was buried in Jerusalem such as Epiphanius of Salamis, Gregory of Tours, Isidore of Seville, Saint Modest, Sophronius of Jerusalem, German of Constantinople, Andrew of Crete, John of Damascus. Others such as 3rd century Book of John about the Dormition of Mary and 4th century Treatise about the passing of the Blessed Virgin Mary claim her tomb was in Gethsemane, just outside of Jerusalem with a church built by Patriarch Juvenal. Others state it was in Ephesus. Case point: she died a natural death.

If she truly ascended in Heaven without death as Catholics believe, then why did she have a tomb?

The only reason why they believed she was resurrected was because her tomb was supposedly empty on the third day just like Christ. Of course, everything is exactly like Christ. In fact, they even have a widely celebrated feast called the Dormition of Mary celebrated by Eastern Christians to this day stating that she died first and then resurrected.

*** St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus* formulates** the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem:*

*St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles **concluded **that the body was taken up to heaven. *

*** Catholic Encycolopedia

At the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when bishops from throughout the Mediterranean world gathered in Constantinople, Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. The patriarch explained to the emperor that there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem, that
“Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven.”

Like I mentioned earlier, there were no eyewitnesses of her assumption and it was based on speculation and not direct observation.
In other cases, both Jesus and Elijah who were taken into heaven certainly had numerous eyewitnesses.
With that in mind, how does one know all the details that upon Mary’s ascension she was glorious crowned and all the angels were rejoicing? Also, please site any official Catholic documents stating that her ascension (without death) was apostolic tradition. I would love to know your (name removed by moderator)ut with sources.

 

[meandean]

You object to asking His mother for her prayers because you believe Christ is the only mediator between God and man. I’m going to ask you the question that dougfreed avoided. Why do you ask Christians, on earth, to pray for you if Jesus is the only mediator between God and man?

Do you not believe that Mary is eternally alive in heaven? Do you not think that the Holy Spirit has made all things known to those in heaven, including what is happening on earth?

you know prodigalson1, i was wanting to know more about your church yesterday and you just left me hanging. in fact, you did not even give me a chance to agree with you one time. you immediately asked what problem do i have with it. i was was trying to understand but you blew me off. but i’ll answer your question. praying for others is a great privledge and responsibity that the lord has given us. it is love in action. but it is his spirit who prays through me, i have only myself to offer. it is him who actually prays. this is why there is one mediater. we can say all we want, but is him who loves through us. and it is him who reaches out to us, it is he who comforts and corrects us.those who have passed on are now in glory, we can only learn from their lives now. and asking for others to pray for me shows they are willing to love me and lift me up in his spirit. lets pray now… father, we all have fallen short of your glory. lots of times we take you for granted and we miss your mark. lord we need you in our lives. help us to see you and hear from you. open our eyes to see and our ears to hear. lord i lift my friend rinnie and prodigal son 1 up to you with tears in my eyes, we both look to you in different ways, but we both need your all consuming love to embrace us, father, search our hearts and shows us what needs to go. renew a right spirit within us and make sure our footsteps. thank you lord in your hands amen

 

[jam070406]

I never said they actually filled in the gaps, I only asked if it was a possibility. Actually, the traditional belief in her immediate ascension into heaven without death is not entirely true. Many early Christians attest to her natural death. Some say she was buried in Jerusalem such as Epiphanius of Salamis, Gregory of Tours, Isidore of Seville, Saint Modest, Sophronius of Jerusalem, German of Constantinople, Andrew of Crete, John of Damascus. Others such as 3rd century Book of John about the Dormition of Mary and 4th century Treatise about the passing of the Blessed Virgin Mary claim her tomb was in Gethsemane, just outside of Jerusalem with a church built by Patriarch Juvenal. Others state it was in Ephesus. Case point: she died a natural death.

If she truly ascended in Heaven without death as Catholics believe, then why did she have a tomb?

The only reason why they believed she was resurrected was because her tomb was supposedly empty on the third day just like Christ. Of course, everything is exactly like Christ. In fact, they even have a widely celebrated feast called the Dormition of Mary celebrated by Eastern Christians to this day stating that she died first and then resurrected.

*** St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus* formulates*** the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem:

*St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles **concluded ***that the body was taken up to heaven.

*** Catholic Encycolopedia

At the Council of Chalcedon in 451, when bishops from throughout the Mediterranean world gathered in Constantinople, Emperor Marcian asked the Patriarch of Jerusalem to bring the relics of Mary to Constantinople to be enshrined in the capitol. The patriarch explained to the emperor that there were no relics of Mary in Jerusalem, that
"Mary had died in the presence of the apostles; but her tomb, when opened later . . . was found empty and so the apostles concluded that the body was taken up into heaven."

Like I mentioned earlier, there were no eyewitnesses of her assumption and it was based on speculation and not direct observation.
In other cases, both Jesus and Elijah who were taken into heaven certainly had numerous eyewitnesses.
With that in mind, how does one know all the details that upon Mary’s ascension she was glorious crowned and all the angels were rejoicing? Also, please site any official Catholic documents stating that her ascension (without death) was apostolic tradition. I would love to know your (name removed by moderator)ut with sources.

It’s not Mary’s Ascension, it’s Mary’s Assumption.

There is a tradition that St. Thomas witnessed the Assumption and received her girdle. There is an icon in the Eastern Churches.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/Assumptiongirdle.jpg

 

[Hercules253]

It’s not Mary’s Ascension, it’s Mary’s Assumption.

There is a tradition that St. Thomas witnessed the Assumption and received her girdle. There is an icon in the Eastern Churches.

Thank you Jam for your (name removed by moderator)uts. Where can I find that source?

 

[jam070406]

Thank you Jam for your (name removed by moderator)uts. Where can I find that source?

I know it’s not the best source, but perhaps you can do some more googling.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_%28Apostle%29

Here is an early text that the tradition appears to have come from.

uoregon.edu/~sshoemak/texts/dormitionL/dormitionL3.htm

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

you know prodigalson1, i was wanting to know more about your church yesterday and you just left me hanging. in fact, you did not even give me a chance to agree with you one time. you immediately asked what problem do i have with it. i was was trying to understand but you blew me off. but i’ll answer your question. praying for others is a great privledge and responsibity that the lord has given us. it is love in action. but it is his spirit who prays through me, i have only myself to offer. it is him who actually prays. this is why there is one mediater. we can say all we want, but is him who loves through us. and it is him who reaches out to us, it is he who comforts and corrects us.those who have passed on are now in glory, we can only learn from their lives now. and asking for others to pray for me shows they are willing to love me and lift me up in his spirit. lets pray now… father, we all have fallen short of your glory. lots of times we take you for granted and we miss your mark. lord we need you in our lives. help us to see you and hear from you. open our eyes to see and our ears to hear. lord i lift my friend rinnie and prodigal son 1 up to you with tears in my eyes, we both look to you in different ways, but we both need your all consuming love to embrace us, father, search our hearts and shows us what needs to go. renew a right spirit within us and make sure our footsteps. thank you lord in your hands amen

When I asked what your problem was with the post you were quoting, I was trying to find out what you found objectionable to see if it could be explained, from a Catholic perspective. I apologize if you took it wrong, it was not my intention. The offer still stands, even though we have addressed about every objection brought forth in this thread.

As you say Christians, on this earth, praying for one another shows love and lifts each other up, do you doubt that Mary, who submitted to God’s will, and who learned Christianity, love and charity, from Her own Son, doesn’t love us (everyone)? Do you think she would not want to lift us up and lead us to her Son?

There is only one mediator and there are many Christians, alive on earth and eternally alive in heaven, that we are a part of the body of Christ with. Asking either for their prayers is not neglecting the fact that there is only one mediator.

Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You therefore do greatly err.

Heb 7:24 But this, for that he continueth for ever, hath an everlasting priesthood:
Heb 7:25 Whereby he is able also to save for ever them that come to God by him; always living to make intercession for us.

Heb 12:1 And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us:

1Ti 2:1 I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men:
1Ti 2:2 For kings and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.
1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher and an apostle (I say the truth, I lie not), a doctor of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

 

[elvisman]

elvisman;5201086:

you too christian! wake up! repent and return to your first love while you still can. stop addressing abortion and contraception issues and deal with this one immediately! this is what is taking your life. this is what is causing the barreness in your church.get right with god while the spirit says today.this praying to mary is nonsense and i hurt for you. your not the first to fall for this lie, look at asherah, and diana. and for the same reason god did not allow satan to have moses’s body. but you fell for it, and now you allow it. cant you see what your shoveling here? my prayer is for you elvisman, that your may see, your eyes being open and that you would look to him only for everything. and that you would be granted wisdom and understanding, o lord touch elvisman in such a real way that he would know without doubt, comfort him and guide him in your ways in your hands amen

Are you going to answer my question or are you going to continue to dance around it by addressing subjects we’re not even talking about like contraception?

Do you believe in the Doctrine of the Hypostatic Union or not?

You don’t have an answer . . . DO you?

 

[rinnie]

meandean;5201254:

Are you going to answer

my question or are you going to continue to dance around it by addressing subjects we’re not even talking about like contraception?

Do you believe in the Doctrine of the Hypostatic Union or not?

You don’t have an answer . . . DO you?

You just made my day. It does drive you crazy doesn’t it. How some people just answer question with question. Never give you an answer. I see that alot when we Catholic call a protestant point blank on something. They either leave, or quote one scripture after another. Never answer the question.

 

[Hercules253]

I know it’s not the best source, but perhaps you can do some more googling.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_%28Apostle%29

Here is an early text that the tradition appears to have come from.

uoregon.edu/~sshoemak/texts/dormitionL/dormitionL3.htm

Thank you Jam for the source. I actually found a few other sources. I know its derived from the work The Passing of Mary with the author claiming to be Joseph of Arimathea written in Latin dating in the 7th century.

It simply states that before the Lord’s ascension, Mary requested that Jesus would take her up and so it was granted. 2 years later Mary was visited by an angel that presented her a palm to signify her assumption in 3 days. On the third day, she then went into her chamber to prepare and dress up as a queen. There were great earthquakes, rains, and thunders that took place. The apostles and other living and non living believers from all over the world were then instantaneously transported in a cloud to witness her assumption and coronation. Thomas saw the whole thing and was looked down upon because of the lack of his faith. After that event, the apostles were then transported back to where they came from in a cloud.

Do you know of any sources much earlier? Also has anyone tested the authenticity of this and what’s the Catholic’s position regarding this document?

 

[wmscott]

Because if they answer that they will have to accept intercession. And since Abraham asking on behalf of another has been characteriestic of a heart attuned to Gods Mercy. And since the Church started Christian intercession participates in Christ. as an expression of the communion of Saints. In intercession he who prays looks not out only for himself but others.

So to make a long story short they cannot deny intercession, and the power of the prayers of the Blessed Mother so it will not be answered.

Oh, I understand and agree completely, I wanted him to say it for all the reasons you just cited. The only other point I was going to make is that some are willing to ask a person, who may be on the fast track to hell because of some mortal sins attached to them, and to have that same person to pray for them. However, they are so quick to dismiss the Blessed Mother or the Angels and Saints who are alive in Christ, in Heaven, and has his ear.

 

[meandean]

When I asked what your problem was with the post you were quoting, I was trying to find out what you found objectionable to see if it could be explained, from a Catholic perspective. I apologize if you took it wrong, it was not my intention. The offer still stands, even though we have addressed about every objection brought forth in this thread.

As you say Christians, on this earth, praying for one another shows love and lifts each other up, do you doubt that Mary, who submitted to God’s will, and who learned Christianity, love and charity, from Her own Son, doesn’t love us (everyone)? Do you think she would not want to lift us up and lead us to her Son?

There is only one mediator and there are many Christians, alive on earth and eternally alive in heaven, that we are a part of the body of Christ with. Asking either for their prayers is not neglecting the fact that there is only one mediator.

Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You therefore do greatly err.

Heb 7:24 But this, for that he continueth for ever, hath an everlasting priesthood:
Heb 7:25 Whereby he is able also to save for ever them that come to God by him; always living to make intercession for us.

Heb 12:1 And therefore we also having so great a cloud of witnesses over our head, laying aside every weight and sin which surrounds us, let us run by patience to the fight proposed to us:

1Ti 2:1 I desire therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions and thanksgivings be made for all men:
1Ti 2:2 For kings and for all that are in high station: that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all piety and chastity.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour,
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.
1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher and an apostle (I say the truth, I lie not), a doctor of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

mary has left us a great testimony, as well as others. i profit from her willingness to accept what the lord had to offer. as well. i learn from her mistakes, like leaving your child in the marketplace. she was a remarkable woman. but so was the woman at the well in john 4. but they both had to come to the conclussion as to why jesus came.one was at the well, and one was at the cross. and like mary, we too must come to the cross and see the lord. and realize what he did, because of who he was, and now he offers this life to us.so to say that mary is the one praying, no that is incorrect. it is jesus. it is his love that draws us. i could not show this love without him. and to say it is someone else, well friend, its a matter of who do you really give the honor too. i have fallen into this trap, as for others praying for me, thinking it was their own love. but that is not true. it is jesus drawing me to the father. i cannot deny this. jesus is my lord and savior, it is him who made me whole. i do want you to see him too. but all i can do is pray that this would be.and that he will look upon you in his love and draw you as well. my words are not against you prodgal, oh they are for you. i know of your commitment to your church. i can read this here.i too, fell into the trap of following the rules and my own convctions. outside looked great, but inside i struggled everyday. what did i do? i had tounderstand i gave more to being consistant with gods word, than being more consistant with my relationship with god. believe me, it can fool ya. look at jesus’ life. there was never a more inconsistant being on this earth than our lord. but he was never inconsistant with his father.i let go of the priciples and engaged the divine life that he offered, and still offers.he is everything. mary, paul, timothy, titus, peter. and so on, they all left us a testimony of our living loving lord and god. this was their help and it was done through his spirit as they yeilded to him. i hope i too can be looked at in this way for his glory, oh that my life would glorify him for others sake!

 

[elvisman]

elvisman;5201736:

You just made my day. It does drive you crazy doesn’t it. How some people just answer question with question. Never give you an answer. I see that alot when we Catholic call a protestant point blank on something. They either leave, or quote one scripture after another. Never answer the question.

**Yes - it happens to me just about every single day when speaking with bitter **anti-Catholics.

I guess we just have to put up with it. A lot of soap-box speeches and no substance . . .

 

[AlwaysAsking]

look at jesus’ life. there was never a more inconsistant being on this earth than our lord.

easy, there, pard’ner

 

[meandean]

meandean;5201254:

Are you going to answer

my question or are you going to continue to dance around it by addressing subjects we’re not even talking about like contraception?

Do you believe in the Doctrine of the Hypostatic Union or not?

You don’t have an answer . . . DO you?

i’m sorry elvis man, i didnt see your question. i thought you left the building(lol). let me see what you asked…do i believe in the doctrine of the hypostatic union? well i never heard of this. why dont you sharpen me?

 

[rinnie]

Oh, I understand and agree completely, I wanted him to say it for all the reasons you just cited. The only other point I was going to make is that some are willing to ask a person, who may be on the fast track to hell because of some mortal sins attached to them, and to have that same person to pray for them. However, they are so quick to dismiss the Blessed Mother or the Angels and Saints who are alive in Christ, in Heaven, and has his ear.

Here is what really kills me. The MOTHER of JESUS CHRIST cannot pray for us, and her prayers are not that important. But then a sinner can pray (us) for eachother and God listens to those prayers. But will not listen to his own sinless Mother who gave up her life to do Gods will. Kinda blow’s your mind don’t it.

So I guess the Protestant view for many not all, Because alot of Protestants are really learning and accepting the truth, But the view must be what the more you sin, the more God will hear your prayers. But the more you don’t sin the least chance you have of God hearing your prayer. Because thats what they are saying in a way, that when God told Jobs friends to have Job pray for them, he may not punish them, because he listens to the prayers of Job because Job is righteous, that scripture went what? Right out the window? We as Catholics know that the Blessed Mother was righteous so we can be sure she has a loud voice to the ear of God. I am not saying God does not hear all prayers, but like in Job, God said not all are accepted.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

mary has left us a great testimony, as well as others. i profit from her willingness to accept what the lord had to offer. as well. i learn from her mistakes, like leaving your child in the marketplace. she was a remarkable woman. but so was the woman at the well in john 4. but they both had to come to the conclussion as to why jesus came.one was at the well, and one was at the cross. and like mary, we too must come to the cross and see the lord. and realize what he did, because of who he was, and now he offers this life to us.so to say that mary is the one praying, no that is incorrect. it is jesus. it is his love that draws us. i could not show this love without him. and to say it is someone else, well friend, its a matter of who do you really give the honor too. i have fallen into this trap, as for others praying for me, thinking it was their own love. but that is not true. it is jesus drawing me to the father. i cannot deny this. jesus is my lord and savior, it is him who made me whole. i do want you to see him too. but all i can do is pray that this would be.and that he will look upon you in his love and draw you as well. my words are not against you prodgal, oh they are for you. i know of your commitment to your church. i can read this here.i too, fell into the trap of following the rules and my own convctions. outside looked great, but inside i struggled everyday. what did i do? i had tounderstand i gave more to being consistant with gods word, than being more consistant with my relationship with god. believe me, it can fool ya. look at jesus’ life. there was never a more inconsistant being on this earth than our lord. but he was never inconsistant with his father.i let go of the priciples and engaged the divine life that he offered, and still offers.he is everything. mary, paul, timothy, titus, peter. and so on, they all left us a testimony of our living loving lord and god. this was their help and it was done through his spirit as they yeilded to him. i hope i too can be looked at in this way for his glory, oh that my life would glorify him for others sake!

I’m sorry you feel the way you do. I am not in a trap. I follow Christ, through the Church He gave the world when He walked upon this earth. Just as you say Jesus draws us near with the prayers of others because of their love, Jesus can also draw us near through His mother who loves us, as Christ, her Son loves us.

I was raised a Protestant. It was when I questioned all the different denominations, with slight to great different doctrines, and how that was being of a full accord and one mind with the same judgment, that He led me to His Church. No one evangelized me. I converted in 1985 and know the truth so strongly, there’s no turning back for me.

When I was Protestant, I had trouble comprehending scriptures. Now, as a Catholic, the Bible has come to life for me. I know Christ and I know the sacrifice He made for all. I cherish all He gave us, His word, His Church and even His mother. There is nothing He has not given us, as all things seen and unseen, are from Him.

 

[elvisman]

elvisman;5201736:

i’m sorry elvis man, i didnt see your question. i thought you left the building(lol). let me see what you asked…do i believe in the doctrine of the hypostatic union? well i never heard of this. why dont you sharpen me?

I already did - 2 posts back.
It’s the doctrine that Jesus’ divinity and his humanhood are united and cannot be separated. He is 100% God and 100% man.

Mary is the Mother of Jesus - who is God - ergo, she is the Mother of God.
She cannot be the mother of only part of him because of the Hypostatic Union, which says his two natures cannot be divided.

Again - Do you believe in the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union?

 

[Hercules253]

The Bible tells us there are many things Christ, Himself, did that were not written about. If there are many things He did, that are not written about, why do we require all things about others be written about? Catholics believe God could protect His truth, even through an oral tradition just as He did His written word. As I tried to convey earlier, all things not written about are matters of faith and belief, but play no part in one’s salvation.
.

I certainly agree with you. I’m truly not arguing about salvation but discussing the basis of her assumption. I know a lot of things were not written but that’s not exactly proof either.
“Also, some may claim that it wasn’t written because everyone already held a common belief so there we no need to unless there were disagreement.”
How is that statement proven as a fact? Are there any Catholic official documents that specifically state that claim?
Another problem with that statement is there were writings already about Mary as clearly indicated through the Early Church Father’s writings circulating after 50 years of Jesus’ death if not earlier.
Why would they write about Mary at all in the first place if there was no need to, like you claim, because everyone already held that traditional belief? And since they did write about Mary, why did they chose to disclose information about her ascension and coronation (which I think is worthy ) but mention everything else about her which mirrored the Bible?

Although everything was not written about Jesus as it claims, they highlighted the most critical points about him:

He was born of a virgin
He performed miracles
He was crucified, died for our sins, and buried, and resurrected on the third day
ascended in Heaven and will return

The New testament writers could opt out other accounts behind because it wasn’t entirely necessary to maintain His identity. But anyone of these accounts mentioned above could not have been left out because it was fundamental for the faith. The writers didn’t have to write anything for that matter about Jesus and choose to orally pass it through tradition. But they did! All the Gospels and New Testament writers all agree on one thing: his resurrection which proves his kingship, eternal priesthood, and being the Son of God…

The same applies to Mary. Mary’s identity was not just the Mother of God, she was the Queen of Heaven. Everything was mentioned except her being a Queen and assuming into Heaven. That is highly necessary as part of her identity as The Queen of Heaven. Like I said, no one in the first 250 years bothers to address that when they could have by simply taking 10 seconds to include it in their epistles and letters.
That’s what I’m curious about.

 

[meandean]

I’m sorry you feel the way you do. I am not in a trap. I follow Christ, through the Church He gave the world when He walked upon this earth. Just as you say Jesus draws us near with the prayers of others because of their love, Jesus can also draw us near through His mother who loves us, as Christ, her Son loves us.

I was raised a Protestant. It was when I questioned all the different denominations, with slight to great different doctrines, and how that was being of a full accord and one mind with the same judgment, that He led me to His Church. No one evangelized me. I converted in 1985 and know the truth so strongly, there’s no turning back for me.

When I was Protestant, I had trouble comprehending scriptures. Now, as a Catholic, the Bible has come to life for me. I know Christ and I know the sacrifice He made for all. I cherish all He gave us, His word, His Church and even His mother. There is nothing He has not given us, as all things seen and unseen, are from Him.

thank you prodigal, for this is the first time ever, i could have fellowship with a true catholic. it has been an great honor. may god bless you and keep you. hope to talk more with you in the future, once again, thank you