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O.S.Luke
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Methodists are the Catholics of the South. We are always catching hell for baptizing infants, being “too ritualistic”, and “too Catholic.”
I’ve read all of the above. Good books.
I see the Truth every day.
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I’ve read all of the above. Good books.
I see the Truth every day.
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rinnie
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I am sorry that you feel that way. The suffering of Jesus Christ is never finished for RC. Every time we hurt one another we do it to Jesus. He told it to us.rinnie: as much as I hate to disagree with you on the issue of the crucifix, with the corpus on it, I must!While on the Cross, Jesus said,“It is finished!” He didn’t say, “Every time you sin, I’m climbing back up on this Cross!” Ever win a ribbon or trophy for something, anything? And everytime you look at that ribbon/trophy, you smile, rememberingthe event? That"s how it is with me and the empty Cross:thumbsup: Sure, the Cross is a symbol of torture, just as the unleavened bread, and the wine, are symbols of Christ’s body, and His life-saving blood! So, you keep wearing the crucifix, with Jesus’s body on it, and I’ll keep wearing mine without, and we both will remember the horror of His cruel death, so that we could have eternal life:thumbsup:
Whatsoever you do to the least of my Brother, that you do unto me. So again are faiths are quite different I agree.
When you persecute your Brothers and Sister you are also doing it to Christ. When we hurt eachother we are also hurting Christ. The devil knows that. That is why he loves to see us hurt eachother. Because it hurts Jesus more. So again we do disagree, when we sin we put Jesus right back up on that Cross. If it were not for ours sins he would never if had anything to pay for. And it is never finished as far as sins go, Unless we stop sinning. Yes Jesus saved us from original sin, but he did not save us from sins we commit after Baptism. THat is why he left us the Church. And the Priest’s with the Power to forgive sins commited after Baptism.
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elvisman
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**We must remember that it was what Jesus did on the cross that saves us - not the resurrection. **The resurrection was proof that he was God - proof of our the everlasting Covenant. It was to show that we too could have eternal life - but it didn’t save us.rinnie: as much as I hate to disagree with you on the issue of the crucifix, with the corpus on it, I must!
When I look at an empty cross I see a piece of wood - just as an empty house has no meaning without the family within it. I don’t like to be reminded of how my sins made Jesus suffer - but I need to be reminded of it as a deterrent to sin.
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1beleevr
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prodigal: You may not believe this, but I do enjoy reading your posts; even the ones that are long, involved, and borderline boring(too much technical stuff) And I enjoy debating with you! And I know (I think it was you) that you had an issue with ppapas316(W-O-W, I didn’t realize he was a catholic for 33 years) about whether or not catholics were Christians
I can tell you, man-to-man, brother-to-brother, that I have never knowingly challenged ANYONE’S Christianity! A fiend of mine at work, who happens to be a catholic, once told me, that"All catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are catholic
I asked him what he meant by that, and he said,“Well, when you’re a catholic, you’re just born into it!” I said “Really?” And I applaud your knowledge of scripture, and your perseverance in defending the catholic religion! If you were to read all of my posts, you would notice that I do not embrace any organized religion, nor do I defend any pastor, priest, etc. My focus is on Christ, as He is the one who lives in me, directs my steps, talks to me, and I to Him! The empty Cross is my reminder of not only the horror of His crucifixion, but the glory of His victory over the world, and death(two things that Satan rules over! And as far as works and faith, I do not believe that God measures us by how much we do, but just because we are His:thumbsup:We are human beings, not human doings! The story of the prodigal son is a prime example of our relationship with God! We wander away, sin, sin, sin, and then come back to God, with our tails between our legs, begging forgiveness! And He takes us back! Could you do the same thing with your son/daughter, or would you say,"You made your bed, now sleep in it! Hey, I love Jesus as much as you do, and because of grace, I am no longer bound by the law, but have a better understanding of the law! I have the Peace of Christ, and may you also find and hold onto that peace! Psalms 46:10
I can tell you, man-to-man, brother-to-brother, that I have never knowingly challenged ANYONE’S Christianity! A fiend of mine at work, who happens to be a catholic, once told me, that"All catholics are Christians, but not all Christians are catholicI asked him what he meant by that, and he said,“Well, when you’re a catholic, you’re just born into it!” I said “Really?” And I applaud your knowledge of scripture, and your perseverance in defending the catholic religion! If you were to read all of my posts, you would notice that I do not embrace any organized religion, nor do I defend any pastor, priest, etc. My focus is on Christ, as He is the one who lives in me, directs my steps, talks to me, and I to Him! The empty Cross is my reminder of not only the horror of His crucifixion, but the glory of His victory over the world, and death(two things that Satan rules over! And as far as works and faith, I do not believe that God measures us by how much we do, but just because we are His:thumbsup:We are human beings, not human doings! The story of the prodigal son is a prime example of our relationship with God! We wander away, sin, sin, sin, and then come back to God, with our tails between our legs, begging forgiveness! And He takes us back! Could you do the same thing with your son/daughter, or would you say,"You made your bed, now sleep in it! Hey, I love Jesus as much as you do, and because of grace, I am no longer bound by the law, but have a better understanding of the law! I have the Peace of Christ, and may you also find and hold onto that peace! Psalms 46:10
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O.S.Luke
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I believe it’s a both/and. There is a reason we primarily worship on Sundays and not Fridays. Our salvation comes for Christ’s sacrifice AND His triumph over death.We must remember that it was what Jesus did on the cross that saves us - not the resurrection. The resurrection was proof that he was God - proof of our the everlasting Covenant. It was to show that we too could have eternal life - but it didn’t save us.
When I look at an empty cross I see a piece of wood - just as an empty house has no meaning without the family within it. I don’t like to be reminded of how my sins made Jesus suffer - but I need to be reminded of it as a deterrent to sin.
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Prodigal_Son1
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In another thread, on another topic, I explained why Christ said, “It is finished.” I wish to share that with you and hope it opens your eyes to understanding what was really happening when He said that.rinnie: as much as I hate to disagree with you on the issue of the crucifix, with the corpus on it, I must!
The Passover meal was part of the covenant from God and men. It required an active participation. In reading Exodus 12:17, we see this was to be done perpetually, for ever. To reject the Last Supper as the adjustment to, or replacement of, or more specifically a fulfillment of, the covenant command of God, means we should still be celebrating the Passover meal as prescribed by God.
We know from Jeremiah 31:31, a new covenant was prophesied. This prophesy was brought to mind in the New Testament, in a letter from St. Paul to the Hebrews 8:7 – 12.
The prescription of the Passover meal was detailed and clear from the Lord, as written in Exodus 12.
A lamb without blemish was to be slaughtered at twilight, eaten with unleavened bread, the lamb’s blood was to be sprinkled on the doorposts with hyssop, none of the lamb’s bones were to be broken, and this ordinance was to be celebrated perpetually.
The Jewish Passover meal consisted of:
- The Festival Blessing – Drink from the 1st cup of wine.
- Passover Narrative and Little Hallel (Psalms 113) – Drink from 2nd cup of wine.
- Main Meal: roasted lamb, unleavened bread, and bitter herbs and spices – Drink from 3rd cup of wine.
- Great Hallel (Psalms 114 – 118) and the drinking of the 4th cup of wine, and closed when presiding priest or host says the phrase, “TEL TELESTI” which is interpreted as “It is finished” or “It is consummated”.
3 of the Gospel authors told us about the Lord’s Supper. Matthew, Mark and Luke wrote about it. All 3 say He gave the cup, of the new covenant, to the Apostles and told them to drink, but it does not tell us that Christ, the High Priest, drank of the cup. Matthew 26:29, Mark 14:25 and Luke 22:18, tells us that, during the Passover meal, Christ announced He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until he drank it in the Kingdom of God. After making this announcement, Matthew 26:30 and Mark 14:26 tell us, “Then, after singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.” After singing a hymn, the great Hallel, they went out to the garden, without the High Priest closing the celebration, not only not closing the celebration, but declaring He would not drink fruit of the vine again, until He drank it in the Kingdom of God. He did not say, “It is finished” or “It is consummated”.
In the garden, our Lord prayed to the father to let this cup be passed from Him, if it was the Father’s will. Matthew 22:44 tells us that Christ prayed this 3 times. What cup was Christ praying be passed from Him? I believe it was the 4th cup that closed the Passover meal, which was fulfilled with the Lord’s Supper.
When God made the covenant with Moses, Moses asked who to tell had told him of the covenant, Exodus 3:13 – 14. God told Moses, “I am, who I am.”
When Christ was arrested in the garden, He asked who they were looking for and they replied, “Jesus of Nazareth”. In John 18:5, Jesus told them, “I AM he”. When those arresting Him heard this, they went backward and fell to the ground (John 18:6).
Mark 15:22 – 24 told us that Christ was offered wine drugged with myrrh, but He did not drink it.
John 19:28 – 30 explains that Our Lord, aware that everything was now finished, in order that scripture might be fulfilled, said, “I thirst”. Hearing this, they took a sponge and dipped it in common wine, sour wine, fruit of the vine, and held it up to His mouth with hyssop. After taking the wine, our Lord said, “It is finished”, bowed His head and gave up the spirit.
John 19:33 – 38 told us that our Lord’s legs were not broken, so that scripture might be fulfilled.
Mark 15:33 – 34 tells us the time the Lamb of God death, which was twilight, the same time Moses was instructed to slaughter the sacrificial lamb.
Christ came to fulfill the law, and it was fulfilled with the new covenant. A covenant of God and men, that requires participation of those being set free.
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Prodigal_Son1
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I noticed you don’t think you embrace any organized religion. What I mean is, Christianity is an organized religion, organized by Him. We are all at different stages of growth, growth that does not end in a lifetime on this earth. I embrace what I truly believe is the Church He built and cherish it as much as any gift He has given us.
Apostles, bishops, priests, pastors, and laity, Christians are all branches of the vine, and we are all connected through the vine.
Short enough?
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Church_Militant
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Really? Well gee…perhaps you should try taking that in the context of other passages that deal with the same topic.Darn it; went to post#672, and didn’t find that all scripture provided, proved that apostles forgave sins
Like John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
I have some articles on my blog that deal with this that you might find helpful.
Catholic Confession
“I Find No Sacraments In the Bible” he said.
Scriptures About Penance
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1beleevr
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Ever think that religion is man’ attempt to get back to God(ever since the fall) and CHRISTianity is arelationship with God through His Son Jesus Christ?
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rinnie
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If I could add l beleevr1 You say your focus is on Christ. You may want then to check out the Catholic Church. You will learn that when you do, you are in for a wonderful surprise. JESUS CHRIST is the CC. You cannot separate them. The bible tells us so.prodigal: You may not believe this, but I do enjoy reading your posts; even the ones that are long, involved, and borderline boring(too much technical stuff) And I enjoy debating with you! And I know (I think it was you) that you had an issue with ppapas316(W-O-W, I didn’t realize he was a catholic for 33 years) about whether or not catholics were Christians
Remember scripure it is ME JESUS CHRIST the CC. Jesus Christ is the Eternal Word of God who took on flesh and became visible among us. So Christ would institute his church and the Sacraments amoung us. He left the Church which continues to speak to us, to lead us on the Straight path. The CC and the Pope and Priest have the advocate promised the Holy Sprit to lead them. Still as strong today as was the Day Jesus came. He never left his CHurch. He promised us that. I am with you always.
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1beleevr
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rinnie: And I am equally sad that you feel the way you do
And yes, there is adifference between our faiths, but not our Saviour:thumbsup: I was sitting here thinking,"If God meant for Jesus to still be on the Cross, would they have taken His Body off! And while elvisman made a decent comparison between a house with a family, and one without, it still lacks the need to “keep” him on the Cross! Have you heard that when Jesus died, He forgave all your sins past, present and future? Wonder what that means? We are covered by the blood, and serve a loving, and forgiving God! Sad, just sad, that people need to show Him on the Cross
What was it someone on another thread, once said about the rosary;“It’ some beads on a string, with some dude on a cross”Talk about disrespectful!
And yes, there is adifference between our faiths, but not our Saviour:thumbsup: I was sitting here thinking,"If God meant for Jesus to still be on the Cross, would they have taken His Body off! And while elvisman made a decent comparison between a house with a family, and one without, it still lacks the need to “keep” him on the Cross! Have you heard that when Jesus died, He forgave all your sins past, present and future? Wonder what that means? We are covered by the blood, and serve a loving, and forgiving God! Sad, just sad, that people need to show Him on the Cross What was it someone on another thread, once said about the rosary;“It’ some beads on a string, with some dude on a cross”Talk about disrespectful!
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rinnie
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Nope, I know the Church is what Jesus left for us so we can never lose our relationship with God!
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Prodigal_Son1
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Church_Militant
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That’s just the way many of us faithful Catholics feel about guys like you. I know that I often do.
Again, this is similar to how I and many of my faithful Catholic brothers and sisters feel about talking to guys like you.
Why I post the way I doOne of the things that drew me home to my Catholic faith was when I actually sat down and studied it with my Bible out, (and I know the Bible pretty well, having read it several times) and comparing what the Church teaches to it and what I had been taught in both the Southern Baptist and Assembly of God faith communities for over 30 years.
No…what you know is what you’ve been deceived into believing by well intentioned people with abridged Bibles in hand. I know…I’ve been there. Here, read My Testimony, perhaps it will give you something serious to think about. The take a look around that blog. It has a lot of articles that refute the very scriptural deceptions that you have probably bought into.
Calvary Chapel? Okay…though there are some n-C preachers out there who consider them a sort of cult. I used to read their stuff a long time ago (as an active non-Catholic), but quit when I saw the starting to bash the Catholic faith and knew (even then) that they were scripturally wrong. The local Calvary Chapel Pastor and his wife are old friends of mine. Nice people.
We disagree on many things but he’s a good man and loves the Lord and the Bible and the people he pastors. I know that the Lord will reward him accordingly.
Oh I will. You can count on that, Sir.
:knight1:Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
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Church_Militant
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That’s not what the Word of God says.
James 1:26 And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. 27 Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one’s self unspotted from this world.
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Mickey
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We celebrate Great Lent for forty days leading up to passion week. Pascha, the Resurrection of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, is a glorious feast day! Then we celebrate the Risen Christ for forty days up to the feast of Ascension. Ten days later we celebrate the feast of Pentecost.
Without the Crucifixion, there is no Resurrection.
Do not be sad. Be glad! Rejoice!
Slava Isusu Christu!
Slava Na Viki!
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Prodigal_Son1
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Christ on the cross was the sacrifice. Yes Christ is risen, but which act washed away the sins? There is no disrespect meant by those who remember the sacrifice itself. Is the Nicene Creed wrong because we pray and remember, “Who, for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried?”rinnie: And I am equally sad that you feel the way you do
The on the cross vs. not on the cross discussion appears to be another Protestant attempt to somehow discredit, or demean, Catholicism, in my opinion. Wearing one or the other, or displaying one or the other, plays no part in one’s salvation, it is only a reminder of His sacrifice and really is a weak discussion point to actually try and prove anything.
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Church_Militant
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Again, this is not in line with what the New Testament says.rinnie: And I am equally sad that you feel the way you do
Corinthians 1 :23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews indeed a stumblingblock, and unto the Gentiles foolishness:
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I judged not myself to know anything among you, but Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
Faithful Catholics know full well about the resurrection (as well as every other aspect of the life of Our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ!), but when I see my crucifix, it reminds me again of the terrible price that My Lord paid for my sins and inspires me to try to live more worthy of His love & sacrifice.
I think I have answered that above. and I would remind you that you are here as a guest in “a Catholic forum” and that disrespectful and disparaging remarks about it are not allowed by the Forum Rules. If we wanted to read that drivel we’d be over on the n-C forums where you probably hang out. You’re out of line Sir.And while elvisman made a decent comparison between a house with a family, and one without, it still lacks the need to “keep” him on the Cross! Have you heard that when Jesus died, He forgave all your sins past, present and future? Wonder what that means? We are covered by the blood, and serve a loving, and forgiving God! Sad, just sad, that people need to show Him on the Cross
That is not the response of a faithful Catholic. If you and your friends don’t like the Rosary, it’s simple, don’t pray it, but don’t disrepect it to us.What was it someone on another thread, once said about the rosary;“It’ some beads on a string, with some dude on a cross”
So far all this post of yours has done is argue against a straw man that is nothing more than a misrepresentation of Catholic art, devotion, and teachings. If this is your thinking, then I can see why you might’ve been decieved away from your Catholic faith.
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Church_Militant
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Church_Militant
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Well said Luke!
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